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my mother, uh, gave birth to me, and then after she gave birth, she abandoned me at the hospital. you are a walking miracle, the fact that you survived. I mean, you had your grandmother's support. Was your mother ever involved in your life? No. So initially when my grandmother took custody, she was under the impression that this was gonna be short-term. Uh, however, my grand- my mother never, uh, got custody of me, and I have never received a birthday gift from my mom. I've never received a happy birthday or a Christmas card. I've never received any gifts from my mom. Um, I have no relationship with my mom. I know who she is, um, but I don't have any animosity towards her. How were you able to get to a point where you don't hold any animosity towards your mom? You were able to really accept the situation? I think so often we, so much suffering is caused by our inability to accept what is So for most of my life I did hold some type of animosity. Um, however, as I continued to educate myself and learn more about the human body and, uh, phy- uh, physiology and, and, and, and all of that stuff, the courses that I had to complete for mortuary school As I continued to educate myself, I got a, a better understanding of addictions. Our next guest knows what it means to build a life out of circumstances that could have gone very differently. Morris grew up in public housing in Trenton, New Jersey, raised by his grandmother after loss reshaped his family. That upbringing became the foundation for a career devoted to lifting others up, first as a journalist, and now as a housing professional, community leader, and advocate for families like the one that raised him. Shahid's story is featured in the new book, Grandfamilies: The Stories of Children and the Loving Relatives Who Raised Them, and he's become a voice for the millions of children raised by grandparents and relatives who step in when parents can't. Welcome, Shahid. It's so, such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. I, I thank you for that beautiful introduction. Uh, and I'm excited to take part in this show well, because of the overdose and drug crisis, and I'm gonna ask you a little bit more about your background and your circumstances, but I know because of that, millions of grandparents have had to step up to raise their grandchildren. I've had some of those grandparents on this podcast. I don't always hear from the grandchildren raised by the grandparents, so this is a new perspective for me, so thank you for being here To be here And tell me a little bit about your history, your background, and your upbringing. You were growing up in New Jersey, by your grandmother. Why was your grandmother raising you? So, um, I have an interesting life story. So, uh, my mother, uh, battled drugs and alcohol, uh, most of her life. And so, um, my mother, uh, gave birth to me, and then after she gave birth, she abandoned me at the hospital. And so my grandmother at the, at this time, my father was in prison, and, uh, my grandmother, the, the hospital, uh, notified my grandmother that my mother had walked out of the hospital, uh, after giving birth. So they were gonna reach, uh, out to social services at the time, uh, and my grandmother intervened and went to the hospital, um, and then would get custody of me. So I went from the hospital to my grandmother's house. It wasn't a house, it was public housing, uh, at the time. I grew up, uh, in the Miller Homes Projects, uh, in, uh, Trenton, New Jersey, the state capital. Um, it was one of the most dangerous projects of that time. Um, and I'm forever grateful that my grandmother, you know, she was in her late 60s at the time, uh, would take custody of a young child with serious needs, with special needs. Um, doctors said that I was not gonna live. Doctors said that, um, I would have severe challenges due to the, the implications at birth. So, uh, my grandmother… I had to go to physical therapy for an entire year. Uh, and my grandmother didn't drive. She walked everywhere and used public transportation, so she took me to physical therapy on the bus for an entire year because I couldn't move the left side of my neck So you were born with physical challenges, the, Yes couldn't move the left side of your neck. Did you have any developmental challenges as well? Was your mother using drugs when she was Yes. Um, my understanding was that, that she was using drugs, um, while she was pregnant with me. Um, and she was drinking heavily. Uh, in fact, um, relatives said when she went into labor she was actually intoxicated Wow. Um, and, and thank you so much for sharing this with us because we do not hear from adult children like this who, who were born with these challenges. And how else did tho- did that, her drug use affect you in your life? Did it affect you in school? I mean, we t- you talked about the physical challenges. Were you able to overcome those? Yeah, I was, I was able to overcome a lot, uh, with, uh, school support and, uh, great teachers throughout my entire life. I've been fortunate to have a lot of great teachers. Uh, and, um, I've been able to o- overcome a lot. Uh, when you look at me today, uh, the doctors were wrong. Um, went off to college, uh, I'm very familiar with South Dakota, you know, I graduated from South Dakota State. I lived in South Dakota, and the people in South Dakota are so nice and friendly. They made me feel, feel welcome. Uh, I did not go without food in South Dakota. You know, everyone's there nice and friendly. Um, and so I had to overcome all of those challenges, uh, surviving a near fatal birth, um, because they didn't, they didn't think I was gonna live. Uh, and, uh, you know, it, it's somewhat of a miracle, uh, that I was able to overcome that and that today I'm 38 years old, that I don't have the severe challenges I, I would say it's not somewhat of a miracle. Uh, you are a walking miracle, the fact that you survived. I mean, you had your grandmother's support. Was your mother ever involved in your life? No. So initially when my grandmother took custody, she was under the impression that this was gonna be short-term. Uh, however, my grand- my mother never, uh, got custody of me, and I have never received a birthday gift from my mom. I've never received a happy birthday or a Christmas card. I've never received any gifts from my mom. Um, I have no relationship with my mom. I know who she is, um, but I don't have any animosity towards her. Uh, I, I understand addictions. Uh, and I mean, she could have gave birth and abandoned me outside. It was… She did give birth at the hospital and left me, uh, in good care Well, that is a very amazing way to look at it. I would imagine, though, when you were a little kid it was painful, that it was hard to feel abandoned by your mom It was. I mean, you don't really notice it until you, like, go to school and, and everyone has their mom and dad, and I never had that. I had my grandmother. She was much older. Um, so I did know my father. My father died at 52. He died very young, uh, and he was a heavy drinker and drug user. Uh, and he, uh, would die, uh, from brain and lung cancer So cancer probably induced by substance use. Yes, because… causes a lot of cancers Yes, car- yeah, alcohol is a carcinogen a carcinogen, right. And you mentioned growing up. A, a couple of things I wanna ask you about growing up in the projects. You mentioned it was a dangerous place where you grew up. There are a lot of ways that you could have gone. So first of all, you've got the genetics for substance use disorder from both your mother and your father, and being born, you know, maybe with substances in your system, or your mother had used substances. That can really set you up for addiction later in life. Did you ever use substances or experiment with substances, or did you stay away from that? For, for most of my life I've stayed away from it. I, I'm a non-smoker and non-drinker. Um, and that's why, because when you're facing genetics it doesn't, it doesn't really take much. Right Um, but and p- you know, people never like understood and they were like, you know, uh, 'cause I was always… You know, 'cause we go to events and functions, and people have a beer a- and, and I don't ha- I have water or, or a, a, a Shir- a non-alcoholic Shirley Temple. Um, and you know, I always had to explain why I don't drink and, and why I don't, why don't I do that. Um, but, but back to your question, but in terms of growing up, yes, it was, it was strange because I, I, you know, didn't have a mom or a dad in my life. And um, my classmates, neighbors, they had both of their parents and, you know. So growing up it was, it was odd and, um, you know, I look back, there was always a, a longing, uh, a need, uh, for that mom, father figure, and then that those needs would be placed on mentors and people who took, uh, interest and, and, and became part of my life Behind every overdose statistic is a person who was loved. The Into Light Project is putting a face to those we've lost, humanizing the addiction and drug crisis one story at a time. Artists create graphite portraits of people who have died from addiction, overdose, fentanyl poisoning, or drug-induced homicide. A professional writer crafts a narrative to go with each portrait so the person's story is told alongside their image. When it's finished, the family keeps the original artwork. Exhibits are opening in South Dakota, Illinois, Missouri, South Carolina, and Maine, and submissions are open right now. If you've lost someone you love to this crisis, this is a chance to make sure their story is seen and remembered. Submit your loved one's story to intolightproject.org/shareyourstory. That's intolightproject.org/shareyourstory, and we've put a link in the show notes to this podcast. D- did those outside influences, those mentors, how much of an, how much of an influence did they have on you? Because I was th- I was thinking you could have gone one of two ways. You could have gone into the gang life if, if you're living in the projects. I've talked to other people who grew up in the projects and, um, you know, I talked to a former gang member who got out of the gangs and, and, and has an incredible life today, but that is one route you could have taken. You could have been using substances yourself. W- how can you explain why you didn't go either one of those routes? So I lived in the projects until I was seven, seven years old. So the projects closed down due to an asbestos outbreak. My grandmother, who, uh, had, uh, less than a fifth-grade education, she migrated to the Northeast for jobs and a better life. She was a custodian at the Trenton Public Schools while she was raising me, and on that meager income, she was able to purchase a house for thirty-five thousand in, uh, not far from where we were living, where I oft- where that house, um, I would grow up in. And so in that neigh- in, uh, the neighborhood that I grew up in, it was a wide range of people. Um, it was mixed income. We had, uh, all type of sexual orientations. Uh, and I met people who left indelible-- who made an indelible mark on my life. So I credit the, that when my grandmother was able to move to a different part of town and buy her home, that played a big part in the development of Shaheed because, um, I might not have had the access to, uh, the, the Michael Days, uh, who, uh, died last year, the mentor father figure of mine, uh, who lived r-right around the corner from me. He was vice president of the Philadelphia Daily News, a big part of my, um, aspiration at the time to become a journalist, and he flew out to South Dakota to attend my college graduation Oh, wow. So you had a, an instrumental male role model in your life that was probably, I mean, he probably doesn't even realize how much that shaped you Yeah. Yes. Well, and him and, and there was a few others too. Hmm but it, it was the mentors who, uh, played a big part in my development from a young man to student, from student to professional And you mentioned it was odd to, you know, be going to school and see all of your classmates have a mother and a father there and you're with your grandmother in all of these different situations. But tell me about your grandmother. What was she like? My grandmother was a very, uh, giving lady, a, a selfless lady. She raised eight kids and two grandchildren at two separate times in her life. Um, and just a very loving lady and a lady with a big heart. She lived till she was 94 years old. Oh Um, when I left television news, you know, I got to live the last four years-- I got to spend the last four years of my grandmother life with her, and had I stayed in journalism, I would not have been able to do that. The year I worked in television, I worked every holiday. I worked every weekend. I worked every night. I had no social life that's the drill. And t- and people don't know, and you work for pennies, and you work, you know, Yeah. all holidays, Nonstop. And it, it was no work-life balance when I was in media. And, you know, a lot of people were disappointed when I left TV news because people had big hopes. But I wasn't happy. I did not enjoy the day-to-day grind of news, um It, you know, working in a newsroom is toxic, can be toxic, hectic, and very stressful. It was the most stressful job I've ever had in terms of live television. But I'm very thankful for that experience because that experience allowed me to get where I'm at today Yeah, I mean, I, I, I loved television news and I loved investigative reporting, but you're absolutely on target with news- that the job itself is very stressful, the deadlines are very tight, and, um, newsrooms can be toxic, and it is, it is not always the healthiest place to, to live and work. Um, but that experience you've taken over now, um, and you are just doing a lot of things. You've been part of this book about, you know, grandparents or other relatives raising children. Did you tell your story for that book? Yeah. So, um, I'm very active with Generations United. Generations United is a nonprofit based out of Washington, DC. Uh, ironically, uh, we've been working together since I graduated from college, and, you know, I would go to DC, lobby on the Hill, uh, and I'm featured in this national book. I, I was just honored to be featured. I mean, Generations United, that, that organization, they communicate with so many grandchildren, and, uh, I'm just honored to be one of the participants that they thought my story was worthy to include in a national book Well, and I think it's such an important story to be told because as I said in the beginning, millions of grandparents are raising grandchildren of the drug crisis, the drug epidemic, the overdose and fentanyl poisoning epidemic, and I think they often get forgotten. People forget about the children of those who are using substances. People forget about the parents who wind up, you know, doing a second shift, so to speak, in their lives, having to raise kids again after they've already raised their children. And I think we need to remember what a huge impact drugs and alcohol have on so many people in our nation Yeah. I mean, the stats don't lie. More than 2.5 million children are being raised by grandparents. And I mean, just imagine today we got record rate inflation, and you have grandparents on fixed income, need help with housing, food, raising their grandchildren. So I, I, you know, I would say to do it in this day and age is even more, uh, difficult. Um, I was at a conference last year in Kentucky, the Intergenerational Conference. I spoke on one of the panels. And one of the, uh, people I, I was on a panel with, her grandmother actually died and had a heart attack while raising her because of the stress of raising a young child. And I can only imagine that stress today is 10 times worse because of the, the overall economy and the inflation, just the, the, the dollar is losing its value Right. Right. It is a, a difficult time, and, and I don't think enough attention is being paid to this issue or enough supports are out there for grandparents who are having to raise their grandchildren, for the grandparent and for the child. You mentioned, you know, these mentors that step forward, and I, I think mentorship is such an important thing, and my husband has been mentoring who, uh, a young man who's now a middle schooler, but he started in kindergarten, you know, to be that male role model. Um, but what do you think it was? So mentorship an important thing, but what do you think it was inside of you made you… I would say you beat the odds. You really beat the odds. You had some, so many cards stacked against you from, know, the physical limitations you were born with, um, the emotional, uh, toll of, of your mother and father basically abandoning you because of their addictions, and then, um, just the circumstances you were in. What inside of Shaheed made you rise, go to college? I mean, that by itself is such a huge thing, and then go on to work in journalism, and now I, we're gonna talk about what you're doing now, but to be a, becoming a public servant as well. inside of you do you think made that I don't know. I was always different since I was a little kid. I was always different. I always talked a lot. I, I was always easy to get along with. Um, and I always had aspirations. I always had dreams. I always had things that I wanted to do with my life. I, you know, I wanted to be a funeral director. I achieved that. I wanted to work in TV news. I achieved that. I wanted to lose 100 pounds. I achieved that. Whatever I wanted to do, I, I just always wanted to do… Uh, whatever I wanted to do, I've always somehow achieved it. And, you know, like you said with South Dakota, I didn't just pick any school. I picked a school that was 1,600 miles. I had never been in the Midwest How courageous is that for you to leave New Jersey, um, and go, come, come to a completely different part of the country and culture really It was totally different. Um, I wr- I, I wrote a… Well, I have a book. It hasn't pub- It's not published yet, but, um, um, one of the counselors, uh, at South Dakota State, he said, "If you wanna go to school, we'll make a way." And that's all he had to say. And, uh, I, uh, took classes at the local community college here in Jersey, and they, they accepted a lot of the credits, and then I transferred in. Uh, and like I said, when I came to school at South Dakota State, I had never been to South Dakota. I just flew in, and I started taking five classes. Uh, and, and, and South Dakota State was li- it was like, it wasn't the setting. The school setting was different. So like at community college, you got classes in the evening, you got classes in the afternoon. When I was at South Dakota State, it was, we… It was almost like the high school setup, meaning that we had

class starting at 9: 22:37

00 AM.

All classes started at 9: 22:41

00 AM. Uh, and then when I was in South Dakota, we never had a snow day. In recent years, I read… they still go to school. Yeah. Yeah, in recent years, they've had a snow day at South Dakota State, but when I was there, we never had a snow day. In fact, I remember walking to the gym in a blizzard. That was my norm. And it's a blizzard, and at the South Dakota State

Wellness Center at 5: 23:04

00 AM, the gym is packed with people Well, you, you kind of mentioned everything you set your mind to you're able to achieve, and to me that… first of all, what I see in you is resilience Thank you determination. I would say determination. You have to be determined, especially to overcome your circumstances. Where were you gonna get the money to go to college, Correct. right? yeah, uh, that and not having any family support, you know? Yeah, so I'm first generation college graduate, uh, first generation college student, so I didn't have the, uh, the support from the family to really get me through four years of schooling. However, when I was at South Dakota State, I was working overnight. I was working overnight as a dishwasher at the local Perkins near the college. I don't know if that's still there. But I was working as a dishwasher at the local Perkins 'cause I had to pay my phone bill. I didn't have any family members send any money, and I, it was, I was, it was, I was on my own And you're a survivor. I think Yes thing that really strikes me. From your birth all the way through to doing something like that, you are a survivor. You are determined and a and you know how many of my, I mean, many of my, many of my classmates who came from, uh, different s- parts of the US, they didn't survive in South Dakota. They did not survive. They just couldn't handle it. They didn't go to class. I- when I went there, I was tunnel vision. I'm here to get an education. Um, I was, I was… You know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't do the partying scene or the sports scene. My vision was to complete my degree. I had all these people rooting for me, and I couldn't go back without it. I, I… In fact, when I was at South Dakota State, I was one of the mentors for the new students. Um, um, uh, some of my friends came from South Side of Chicago, and I told them, I said, "You know, you get one shot at this. You don't wanna be go back home with all this debt, and you didn't complete your degree." Right. And so you, you, you get out of school, you work in television news for a year, and then you are able to spend… You leave television news 'cause it, it is a tough business. It's not for everybody. And then you spend that time with your grandmother. Tell me what you did after that, after TV news So after TV news, I moved in with my… I moved in, in, uh, this house here. This is my grandmother's house. Um, and when she passed, I bought her house. I did not inherit anything. Um, I bought the house, uh, from a… She had a reverse mortgage on the house. I bought it as a heir of her. So it's, you know… So shortly after returning back to Trenton, I went to mortuary school. Um, I had dropped out of mortuary school previously, and I went back to mortuary school 'cause I just didn't like the fact that I dropped out. I like to complete everything that I start. So that's why you, that you, you, you follow through for sure. For sure, So that's why I went back. I had no desire to have a funeral home. Uh, I just wanted to have the license to say that I'm a funeral director, and I am. Um, so my last semester of mortuary school, I started applying for government jobs. And, um, I, a- and, you know, I, I was just so happy. I mean, I went my… You know, the salaries in TV news is very public, so I- it's one of… T- journalism is one of the few careers where people talk about their salaries, right? Well, it's, it's pretty dismal actually. It's not very So People think people on television are making a lot of money, but n- most cases that is not the case. So my first job in Northern Virginia as a full-time on-air reporter paid $23,500. Yeah which is quite a few years before you, paid 12 grand a year, Well, wow. And we had my roommate, we would get that $500 check, and after we paid rent we would have zero left over. I remember I applied for, like, 30 part-time jobs. I couldn't get hired anywhere. Um, and so I just didn't enjoy what I was doing tell me why you wanted to become, you, you wanted to finish mortuary school, but why did you wanna become a funeral director in the first place? So my first job as a teen- teenager was working around a funeral home. That's where I learned how to drive because n- in my … My grandmother didn't drive. No one in the household had a driver's license. So I, I learned how to drive working around a funeral home. Um, and so I was always around funerals and death and dying. And ironically, my grandmother took me to my very first funeral at seven, and then she would take me to all these funerals because, you know, with her being older, a lot of her friends and people, uh, would pass away, and she would take me to funerals, and that, uh, put an interest in me in terms of mortuary. That's what, uh, planted that seed of becoming a funeral director Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices. Our age appropriate lessons start in kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories, and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emilyshopeedu.org to learn more, and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. While Shaheed keeps his funeral director's license active, he's found his purpose in another field close to his

heart: 29:22

affordable housing. He now works as a public information officer in the New Jersey Housing and Mortgage Finance Agency, a state agency that creates and funds affordable housing and home ownership opportunities. The job also allows him to use the journalism skills he developed in college and during his TV news career What I found is this is what I really enjoy. Um, my next dream, I, growing up in public housing, I would like to lead a public housing agency. That's something I wanna do. I, I believe that I have a, a perspective that could be beneficial. Uh, that's something I r- that's something that I really wanna do. Um, and you know, so that young people in public housing can see someone like me and know that their future does not have to be, you know, their f- they can do whatever they want with their future, and so I'm very passionate about that. All of my life I was looking for mentors, and now people are asking me to be their mentor. That's- Well, you are the perfect mentor for other younger people because you, you've been where many of them are now, and you can show them that they're, you c- you don't have to be stuck in your life in any way if you have the determination move forward and to, and to go after your dreams, which is obviously what you did, and that is so inspirational. Having had your life so impacted by the drug crisis, what do you think are some answers to solve what we're still seeing today in terms of substance use disorder among 49 million Americans? You know, we've got the overdose crisis still, many people dying from overdose and fentanyl poisoning. do you think the solutions are? Well, I mean, s- I mean, we have to put services out there to help treat the addictions, um, and be willing to help. Um, so, um, like, uh, you know, in my neighborhood here, there's, um, a truck that's, um, for those who are battling with addictions and, uh, they provide services for them. Um, but on a national level, we g- we have to lobby for Congress to increase funding for things like that. Treatment. Treatment, treatment. treatment, easy We need- easy, immediate access to treatment and long-term treatment for Yeah, lo- long-term treatment, um, and, you know, some of, you know, then you got the homeless population. Uh, it, it's a, an array of issues. Yes treatment, uh, p- preventive care, uh, some of them don't even have healthcare. Right Um, and I, I think the families are, like, the first source of defense because they're the first to realize that their relative is dealing with an addiction. Right Um, but then everyone doesn't have that family. S- there's so many fragmented families Right, not everybody has a grandmother who can step forward to care for them the way your grandmother did, right? those who do are, are really true heroes. You mentioned that you don't really have a relationship with your mother and that you appreciate the fact she went to the hospital to give birth. How were you able to get to a point where you don't hold any animosity towards your mom? You were able to really accept the situation? I think so often we, so much suffering is caused by our inability to accept what is So for most of my life I did hold some type of animosity. Um, however, as I continued to educate myself and learn more about the human body and, uh, phy- uh, physiology and, and, and, and all of that stuff, the courses that I had to complete for mortuary school As I continued to educate myself, I got a, a better understanding of addictions. And as I understood addictions better, it softened my heart Right?'Cause addiction is truly a disease of the brain, and it is a, is a chronic disease if there's n- appropriate interventions, and sometimes even then we know interventions don't always work. Um, it is, it is something where the substances have taken over the brain. So it's, it's good to separate the person, your mother, who she was, you know, before her substance use disorder, then what substance use disorder did to her and her life. You know, it's even-- I'm 38 now, but, you know, I don't have any kids, but it's still odd not, you know… I can't relate to people who've had a relationship with their mom or dad. I, I just can't relate to it What values do you think your grandmother instilled in you? Oh, plenty. So she was a very generous and giving person. Um, those are values I got from her. Whenever a neighbor or someone she barely knew would die, my grandmother was taking something over to their house to offer condolences. I grew up seeing that, and I find myself at 38 being just like that. Um, uh, because, you know, she was a kind woman who would give you the shirt off her, off her back, and I always referred to her as the lady with the big heart. And the tombstone I got for her, we got a custom shaped as a huge heart Well, how wonderful that you had her in your life and those other mentors that you spoke of. I think especially the male ones for a young boy growing up without his parents, um, also so important. Any other words that you want to leave us with today? So you that you'd like people to know? I mean, for those who w- who are watching, uh, who may be going through a similar situation or had a similar upbringing, um, seek mentors. Uh, seek, uh, seek mentors, um, and, you know, allow them to enter your life. And the relationships, the mentorships, they were life-changing for me. My mentors became my family How many of those mentors are you still in touch with? Um, I'm still in touch with… So, um, the, the two male figures, they, they both died. So the late John T. Campbell, he was a, a huge, uh, mentor, uh, and father figure. Uh, I- he gave me a job around his funeral home as a teenager, uh, cleaning, uh, and driving, and doing odd jobs around the funeral home. Uh, his death, uh, was very tough for me to take. And then, uh, Michael Days, who was my neighbor and mentor, uh, we just honored him, um, so the National Association of Black Journalists, uh, annual convention was two weeks ago in Atlanta. I went to Atlanta, uh, for… He was, um, given the Founders Award for NABJ. And then, uh, during the awards gala, they have a service of remembrance for the journalists who passed in the previous year. So I, I went down, uh, to be with his family, uh, for that time. But it, it's, it's tough because it's like those day one supporters, they're no longer here. And so there are new people coming into my life, but they're coming to the now version of Shaheed. Well, I, I was thinking about the, the journalist who was your neighbor. I mean, a gift that was, the proximity Yes uh, and, uh, and to have a role model like that, have a mentor like that. And, and, um, any other mentors that you keep in touch with besides, So his wife, um, is, is my mentor, m- mother figure, so we're in touch all the time. Mm. but at 38 I don't, you know, Right. it's… I'm there- don't need as much parenting or, you know, substitute parenting as you might Yeah a youngster. But, um, it's still nice to have those people in your life that have helped you and, and, and lifted you up along the way. Yeah, and I … His wife, her name is Angela P. Dodson, uh, and she's a journalist, author, was an editor at The New York Times. These, that was my neighbor. And it's not like this neighborhood is a very affluent area. It's not by any means Yeah. Well, what luck is that to have Ja And I just so appreciate you sharing your story and what you're doing, and I have a feeling gonna have you back on the podcast when your book comes out. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you Yes, we'd love to hear back from you and, uh, help you promote your book. Um, and it's just been, uh, such a pleasure to get to know you, and I just admire everything you've been able to accomplish given the hardships that you were born with Thank you. I, I, I'm thankful that you, uh, w- wanted me to come on the show to share my story. Uh, and, you know, hardships don't have to last. Uh, w- we could turn them. Uh, you know, how we start our life doesn't have to, is not how we have to end. Uh, and, you know, my grandmother, my mentor, uh, you know, faith, and just trying to put good energy out in the universe Well, hardships do not define you by any means. So thank you so much and hope to talk again soon Thank you And thank you for taking the time to learn more about this important topic. If you have an idea for a future podcast episode, we wanna hear from you. You can find my contact information in the show notes, and while you're there, we'd appreciate it if you'd just take a moment to rate and review Grieving Out Loud, and share it with someone you love. Together, we can raise awareness about our nation's substance use disorder epidemic, reduce the stigma surrounding addiction, and help save lives. Thank you again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wandenberg King and Kayli Fitz