I was dedicated to being the best mother I could be just out of that love. I just wanted everything about him to thrive, and that, um, was private schools and church and church on Wednesday nights so that he'd have youth group with friends and like-minded friends. all the things you think you're gonna do to protect your kid too Yeah, and that strong will is what you hit on really made me feel like I wouldn't have to worry about peer pressure with him. He's not gonna do anything he doesn't wanna do, and I had so many conversations with him growing up. I believe they saw my child, a freshman in high school coming from a Christian school to public, as being very vulnerable, small, small school kid, you know, wasn't really used to all the crowd and probably a lot of the pressures that come with big schools like Dana Hills. it was, you know, in a social situation where he tried something that someone gave to him and, um, that I'm told he took a quarter of it, and he just got the side with the chocolate chip cookie effect that we hear about with fentanyl. You never know what side of the pill, only two salt grains can kill you. So, um, he got the side that had a lot of it. I'm not sure whether the rest of the pill did, but he definitely got a lethal side. When I attended the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy Summit in May, I had the chance to meet many parents who, like me, have turned the worst moment of their lives into a mission. One of those parents was today's guest, Anne Funder. Anne lost her 15-year-old son, Weston, to fentanyl poisoning in 2022. Weston was a freshman in high school, a kid who by all accounts was loved, was guided, and was given every advantage his family could offer. And yet, in one moment of peer pressure, he took a pill that wasn't what he was told that it was. It contained fentanyl, and he never woke up. that February morning, Anne has refused to let Weston's be just a statistic. She has spoken on some of the biggest stages in the country, testified before Congress, and fought for legislation in his name. We're here to talk about a mother's love, a son's life, and what it means to carry grief forward with purpose. Anne, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. Thank you. Thank you for having me I know right away we connected when we were in Washington, DC. We've both experienced the, something very similar, the loss of a child to fentanyl, and we've both been advocates on local and national stages. So I do feel like we have so much in common We do. Un- un- unfortunately, there's too many of us angel parents that have this much in common. And unfortunately, it still continues to happen because it's such an insidious, complicated issue. The drug supply, the drug trade, all of it, it's, there's not just one easy answer to end it, but there are certainly some very obvious solutions like prevention, um, law enforcement, and treatment and recovery. So we need all of these things to really protect all of our children moving forward. Let's talk a little bit though, before we kind of get into what works, what doesn't work, what you think needs to be done, let's talk about Weston because I really wanna learn more about him Well, Weston was an incredible child. He was the love of my life. He taught me what love meant. I never knew a love as strong as that or that it even existed until I held him in my arms, and I was dedicated to being the best mother I could be just out of that love. I just wanted everything about him to thrive, and that, um, was private schools and church and church on Wednesday nights so that he'd have youth group with friends and like-minded friends. And then into Christian school, sports, football. I mean, he played every sport, baseball, football, basketball, hockey, um, and he loved surfing, but he ended up, you know, focusing mostly on football and hockey, and surfing was his, his sport with his friends. Um, he had a ton of friends. He loved to e-bike around. He was a very, very, very typical kid. He was curious. Um, so, you know, always kind of like that. You know, I, I'm not gonna say he was like this perfectly listening kid. He listened very well. He had a good grade point average, 3.5, um, and he worked hard for that because he sometimes struggled, but he worked very hard for that. He had tutors. But, you know, if I said,"Don't touch that, it's hot," he was prone to, you know, wanna touch things, so Yeah. when it-- when had, had a strong will. That's what it sounds like to me. And I would say, uh, so much of what you're saying, and I want you to continue, Yeah like my daughter as well. A strong-willed, Yeah. Strong willed, uh, mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely. I, Christian yeah all the things you think you're gonna do to protect your kid too Yeah, and that strong will is what you hit on really made me feel like I wouldn't have to worry about peer pressure with him. He's not gonna do anything he doesn't wanna do, and I had so many conversations with him growing up. I was part of, um, an auxiliary board for Not My Kid in Arizona when we lived there, which was education for, you know, drug, um, ed- uh, education. So that was when he was five years old. I was advocate for always making sure you talk to your kids about drugs. I was always pointing out things that, you know, were relevant with, um, you know, never trying drugs. Uh, but if there-- If you saw someone on the news, this is why you never try drugs. If you see a homeless person talking to themselves, this is why you never try drugs. You know, I was always-- And in California, there's a lot of homeless people, and there's a lot of those drug rehabilitation, you know, overnight places, and I used those as lessons constantly. Never, ever did I think he'd try something. But peer pressure, which I didn't think he would be suscep- susceptible to, is what got my son. but it was peer pressure On a couple things you said there because thought too teaching my child about drugs, and I, I still believe in prevention and I still believe in teaching kids about drugs. Yeah, don't absolutely daughter got the full message,'cause I was working as a journalist and so I talked to, I sh- you know, I had her watch a meth special that I d- reported on and anchored and, um, we talked about drugs all the time, but she didn't get the full message. And I think kids today, sometimes the influence comes from outside of us, right? It comes Yes it comes from what they're seeing on social media, all of these things Absolutely. I did a large presentation a couple of days ago with some people from Victoria's Voice and Fentanyl Fathers Angel Army, um, and just someone actually who owned, uh, who was part of drug control policy themself. We had a big panel, and what I talked about was let your child hear your voice before they hear the voice of the world. How do we talk to our kids about this stuff? Because kids eventually are gonna get into a mind of their own. They're gonna be influenced by their peers. So it's really important that we talk to them not only about drugs, but about the pressures they're about to face. Because if they don't hear that from you, they're gonna hear it from their, their friends when they're being offered something. So I think that that force of, you know, peer influence is extremely, extremely motivating to kids to try things. It's influential, unfortunately. So my big fight is really talking to your kids about peer pressure. Be that voice that they hear Right. And so Weston obviously had a big life, was really involved in a lot of things, and did he go to a party? Was hanging out with friends? What happened with this pill that he took? So he was with some friends and, um, yeah, they were in a social situation and, um, you know, I don't have the whole story because it's not really anybody that I really knew well. Um, I've kind of had to piece back a lot of it. Uh, it was, you know, in a social situation where he tried something that someone gave to him and, um, that I'm told he took a quarter of it, and he just got the side with the chocolate chip cookie effect that we hear about with fentanyl. You never know what side of the pill, only two salt grains can kill you. So, um, he got the side that had a lot of it. I'm not sure whether the rest of the pill did, but he definitely got a lethal side. Um, and he came home and went to bed, and he never woke up. He actually, um, fell onto his bed. I wish he fell into a door or into his dresser, into something that would've crashed and, and made noise, but he walked himself up the stairs, and then he went into his room, shut the door, and fell onto his bed. Um, and from there he had, you know, I don't know how long, but, you know, they found him in the morning and, um, it's, it's really awful the way it happened because he thought he was taking a Percocet. Not that he should ever have done that, but something that he had heard from his doctor with, you know, playing sports and injuries and never let him have one. But he knew what it was, and I think he just thought he could probably score some cool points at a new school, and so he tried it and he, he couldn't, he couldn't get away with it It's also really important to note that he was 15, kids' brains are not fully developed. Their impulse control isn't fully developed at 15. They can make a impulsive decision even if they normally wouldn't, given the right circumstances. I think, you know, we, we can't blame Weston for doing that, but we can blame the people that put the fentanyl in the pill and the people that knew about the fentanyl in the pill. So was anyone ever charged in Weston's case? And did anybody else die from these pills related to Weston's death? Not at that time, but yes. Um, the person who gave it to him knew because he had, had lost somebody in his past and hospitalized another one. The person who gave it to that person kn- these people speak your kids' languages, and they're, they train younger kids very well to push these on your, your child. I believe they saw my child, a freshman in high school coming from a Christian school to public, as being very vulnerable, small, small school kid, you know, wasn't really used to all the crowd and probably a lot of the pressures that come with big schools like Dana Hills. Um, and the person above that person, they never went, they never tried to find who it was who gave it to him. Um, I did find out who that was later. He's in jail for something different, but, you know, short term, and they never enforcement never pursued anything in your case? They told me that because the kid was, he wasn't quite 18, it was almost 18, um, underage, that they don't, they don't prosecute minors is what they told me, which is crazy. But… And they should have, because, you know, these kids who don't get prosecuted, and if they don't learn, they go on to, to further, you know, have further arrests for, for other things or continue to have arrests for drugs and seems to be kind of the progression that, um, has happened. So it's unfortunate that they didn't at least give them some sort of punishment to deter them from doing anything bad in the future. But, um, the person who… They didn't go after the person above him. That's what really messed… like was messed up, in my opinion. Because if they had just tried to go with the guy above him, who was an adult, who was bringing it in, was trafficking it over the border, we know that, um, you know, how many lives would he, would, would have been saved? This man gave it to several other people. He was the, you know, the central dealer. So, um, and what happened to him? nothing. They didn't even go after him. Unfortunately, Anne's situation is not unique. I've spoken with many grieving parents on this podcast who say their children's fentanyl deaths were not thoroughly investigated or prosecuted. That includes Terri Almanza, a former Chicago police officer who says she was devastated by how law enforcement handled her daughter Sydney's death. I knew that if you were caught selling drugs, you're going to jail. So if you're caught selling drugs and someone dies as a result of it I would think that that would be just as criminal, if not more. So I had, um, you know, reached out to law enforcement, and they pretty much said Sydney made a choice, and, um, we were never gonna see charges. And they closed the case and classified it as non-criminal prior to her toxicology even coming out. Um, and that's when I thought, unacceptable, no. And I, I had learned of the drug-induced homicide statute, that it was being, uh, enforced in other states, in other counties in Illinois, networked with prosecutors in Will County and McHenry County, and found out that not only were they enforcing it, but it was actually reducing the number of, uh, deaths. So really pushed with the Chicago Police Department. Um, they finally, uh, reopened the case, but I mean, I had to go out there publicly doing rallies, you know, speaking out to the media, which was- What, what was that like as a- Mm … Chicago police officer on the inside doing that? Because were you ostracized, or I mean, did, was there a fallout from that? Because here you are, a police officer, and you're like protesting, like, "Open this case. Press charges." I'm going, I'm going against the people who I consider my, my family, my second family. I mean, with law enforcement, it's this brotherhood, and, uh, for me to go and speak out in front of, um, you know, the medical examiner's office or the courthouse or the police department and speak with the media and share with them that my department wasn't doing their job was incredibly difficult because I love the police, and I love being the police, and I have nothing but great pride for what I've witnessed on a daily basis law enforcement officers, um, doing to save lives and protect our community. But it just, it just wasn't being done. And sadly, I mean, to, to this day, I will still read how cases are not investigated. So- Right … I think it, it was just a matter of, and it's still a matter of, creating this shift within our judicial system away from accidental to criminal. Terri went on to form the Drug Induced Homicide Foundation, an organization dedicated to supporting families like hers and driving change. You can learn more by listening to the full podcast. We've included a link in our show notes. If you're a mother grieving the loss of a child, dear friends of mine, moms who've lost children to fentanyl poisoning and overdose, are hosting the Sisters of Strength Warrior Moms Retreat October 9th through the 11th at Wildwood Hills Ranch in St. Charles, Iowa. It's a weekend of healing, connection, horseback riding, and creative remembrance with women who understand. This weekend isn't about forgetting, it's about remembering with love. The link and details are in the show notes. I hope you'll join us I'm just wondering how you during those first few weeks and months It didn't. I mean, I was just given this amazing blessing, you know, 15 years earlier that I promised I was gonna keep safe his whole life. I knew that I would never rest another day in my life, and that life would never be the same. Um, you know, I s- I, I, I sat a lot. I was quiet. I thought. I watched flowers come through my door. I mean, my whole house, there wasn't even a spot to put them after a certain point. Mm, I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted my son back. And I remember sitting there on the couch going,"This is the worst ever." Like, I can't believe this just happened to me. Like, if this is what happens to other people, it doesn't happen to me. I had that life that nothing was gonna happen, and I thought that. And, um, and it did, and I just remember thinking, "I can't let another parent go through this." And I didn't know at that time what was gonna come of that, but I knew that it was gonna be my mission to fight, fight hard. I don't do anything small. Um, but you know, it was hard. I don't remember a lot of it, I will say that. I love that people, you know, were there, were caring for me, uh, coming in, uh, the door, um, bringing dinners and stuff like that. But, you know, the flowers die, the, the meals go away, and you're left kinda to sit alone, and, um, it's hard. It's really hard, and I don't want anybody to ever have to know what that's like So hard. And what you said there resonated with me because I remember thinking, "This is not how our lives are supposed to go. This is not how my story is supposed to play out or my daughter's story." I remember feeling that same way, like, how can this be reality? But it was, obviously. And then because I had a platform, I knew I owed it to people to try to save someone else's kid. Like, just like, I think every parent on this mission that I've spoken to is speaking out or taking action they f- don't want this to happen to someone else's family Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, it's just s- there's nothing but emptiness after that. And, um, so I think when you finally decide that you're strong enough to stand up, that's what gives you some sort of purpose in what ha- what happened and your child's life, um, making sure that they're, they didn't die in vain, and that's where this fight comes from Was Weston your only child? No, I have four children. He was the oldest of four. And, um, my other kids, so Weston was 15, just turned 15 a couple months earlier. He was 15, and his brother was 12, sister was 10, and his littlest brother was six. So I had a very young family. Yeah. so young. And so how have your other children… Because my children were in high school. Emily was the oldest, and she was 21, so a few years older than Weston, and my other kids were in high school, and I've done podcast episodes with them and talked to other siblings and, but I don't know that I've talked to anybody that had kids so young as you. How did your children, other children cope, and how have they come to understand it? I don't think they do, and I don't think they have, um, you know, they have to c- move on. I think little kids have a brain that kind of shelters them from anything too tremendous in understanding. Um, so they've m- they've, you know, they've been dis- displaced. We moved to the East Coast to be near family. That was hard for them. Um, you know, they've had to make new friends. They don't really understand why this happened. It probably made them question God. I was quick to put them back in a Christian school on the East Coast to make sure that they had that spiritual connection and knew that they can lean on God. Um, it's been hard for them. They don't understand, you know, why us? And then Weston's dog is, you know, that we got, it was all of my kids' dog, but Weston took care of her. A year later after Weston died, she died, and I just remember my littlest going,"Why does this keep happening to us?" And it's just been a little unfair for them. So, you know, when you lose a child, you don't just lose that child. Your whole family dies in a sense, and it's just a very difficult way to live afterwards I always say it's like a bomb going off in the middle of a family. It really is. It sort of decimates the whole family in different ways. Um, and then you worry about your other kids. You, when you know that you can lose a child, it's, it's terrifying, I think Yeah. It, it truly is. Um, you know, every time I walk out the door, you know, you're, you're a little more nervous of… And, and other people don't understand as much, like, you know, where are they gonna be? Do you know what, you know, who they're gonna be with? You know, you start worrying about stuff like that, and really over-asking, I feel like maybe. And you just, you know, you're sensitive to it because of what you've been through. And, um, you know, other people don't always understand that, but I think if they know… And I don't always tell people, like, "Hi, my name's Anne, and I lost a child." Like, a lot of people don't know what we've been through. So, Right it's just, it's hard. Everything about this is hard. There's nothing easy. But you try to find hope and, you know, keeping your faith, number one. That's, that's first for me is, is just… And trust me, I've had a lot of conversations with God that I would wonder if He's gonna forgive me for it. But, um, but you know, you just try to keep the faith and, and, and keep, keep fighting and, you know, use it as lessons in, in this life and, and do everything you can to just learn from it and pick up the pieces and try to move forward as best you can. to your other kids, like you said, you talked to Weston about drugs. I talked to Emily about drugs. It didn't protect her from this and this, um, scourge that we have Mm-hmm. this poison being in the illicit drug supply. And even if you talk to your other kids, it's not necessarily you know and I know. I mean, so far my other kids have been fine and they're starting, you know, they're becoming young adults, which ma- I'm, you're never fully in the clear, right? But makes me feel like, well, maybe we've made it through that time of experimentation and all those things without this happening again. But how do you talk to your other kids about drugs now? Well, they've witnessed it. I think that they know the severity of drugs and the repercussions because they watched what happened in real time. Um You know, I think that's a really powerful lesson. M-m-my-- Not that there's a personality for this, but my, my second child who's now my oldest, who was the middle child, doesn't have the same personality that Weston did. He's, he doesn't mind-- He-- His social life isn't, like, very important to him. He loves his couple of friends that he has, and they're very close and, you know, they do stuff together. He has different interests. He's my piano player, my scientist, my, you know, my math kid. And then my daughter is just very sweet. She's quiet. Um, you know, she's, she's just a really sweet g-good girl and, um, you know, they both learned a very powerful lesson. I think she's probably the most affected by this because she was very close to her brother, and so the lesson that she had to watch and learn, she knows. I'm not saying that you could ever take your eye off the ball on this, but my kids did learn this at a young age, and you've mentioned that, you know, I did have a young family. So it might be different where habits haven't been formed and they know that-- they know the consequences. My youngest is Weston 2.0. He's very curious. He wants to learn everything in this world on his own, so I'm gonna have to keep an, an eye on him. But he knows, too. He, he, he doesn't wanna die, and he knows his brother died, so Right, and I, I do believe there are personality traits that, that just lend someone to be more of a risk-taker, Yes. susceptible to these things than, than other kids. There's, uh, obviously personality traits, genetic factors, environment, all of it comes into play. I believe that yeah. Um, and so, know, we talked about the, the days following Weston's death. At what point did you decide that you needed to become an advocate? Um, so I would say about six months in. I, I had already joined all the groups I could on Facebook. Just someone give me some answers, someone stand beside me, someone walk this with me 'cause I can't do this. I didn't think I was gonna make it, but I had children to live for. And honestly, if I didn't have children to live for, I don't know where I'd be today. Um, there was a group, Lost Voices of Fentanyl. I called up, um, the founder, April Babcock. I sh- I called her up and I said, um, I had already posted a video of Weston and, you know, she had known who I was. She had reviewed some of the things I was posting. You know, she, you know, kind of stood behind the things that I was writing. And so when I called her, I said, "Hey, you know, I know you guys are having a march. I can't get to DC, but I know nobody's gonna be there to moderate. I've been a moderator in the past." I was in media and, um, I had a, a page that I moderated at Flip It Red, California."I'd be happy to help moderate while you guys are away." And she called me up and she's like, "I knew you were gonna be,you know, I knew you were gonna be a fighter. I knew you were gonna be in this." And she, you know, immediately embraced the, um, the opportunity to have me, um, a part of her, um, her moderators. So I moderated with Lost Voices of Fentanyl for three years, um, giving, you know, my heart to this fight every day through the angel community with Lost Voices of Fentanyl. And, um, you know, recently I'm not tied to any, any, um, groups at this point. I've kind of started to shift my, my focus onto peer pressure. Less fentanyl, more let's have that conversation. Because while fentanyl is the thing that, that got to my child and, and took his life, it was-- the avenue was truly peer pressure. Yeah. That's a That's where my focus is. I was gonna mention April Babcock has been on this, uh, podcast A real with many members of Lost Voices of Fentanyl. Um, I actually went to out to one of their rallies and interviewed many parents who were out there for the podcast. We did a whole series. So I'm very familiar with them, and our audience is as well. I, I do think you have, you have said something there that I, I believe wholeheartedly, the peer pressure part. For my daughter, it was a boyfriend. That was where the pressure came from. That was where the starting to smoke marijuana came from, the boyfriend. And so whether it's a, you know, just a friend or a boyfriend or a Mm-hmm. um, learning to listen to what you want and to stand up to that and to really realize, you know, that's a hard thing to teach a kid. And we, in our curriculum, Emily's Hope has K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum. No We do address pressures, peer pressures, along with emotions, um, as part of that. And so as for peer pressure, also just with all the things on social media, peer pressure, right? I mean, kids are pressured to do all kinds of things, not, not just take a drug. So you learned about peer pressure, and what do you want to see happen? I just think kids aren't prepared for high-pressure sales. I think that's what it comes down to. I don't know if you've ever, you know, walked into a mall and there's these kiosks in the center, and there's these people that have skincare, and they start trying to hand you a sample. And they say, "Here's a free sample." And this is what drug dealers do, and, and that's why I'm equating it to this. And so you, you know, first time walking through the mall, you're like, "Oh," you know,"Okay, thank you." And you take it, and then they follow you and they say, "Hey, by the way, I noticed your skin this." And they're grabbing your hand, and now they're rubbing something onto your hand. And we have this. And the next thing you know, they're like, "This is only $28, and look what it did to your hand. Do you see all this that I, you know, exfoliated?" And they, like, they really sell you on it, and you just kind of feel like, "Oh my gosh, I have to buy this." And so, you know, those high-pressure sales situations, they do the same thing to children. You know, "Here, just try this. Just try this. Just try this. Okay, fine. Just try the… Everybody's doing it." You know, you always hear that, but, "Just try this." And, and they're watching people do it. They're watching people have fun doing things. You know, it's a crowd that's doing stuff. So these are the things that they do, and then they just, they, they take their hand, they give them one. It's just, "Take a little, just a little bit. You know, it's not gonna… Just try a little." And the kids don't understand these high-- These people are so well-trained. This is a business. And you mentioned in the beginning, you said, you know, something about, you know, this is not going away. And, and the reason is, is because it's not only a multi-billion dollar business, it's a multi-trillion dollar enterprise. And these are businessmen. They have sales training. They have operations. They have factories. These people go to work every day. There's briefcases involved. There's 150,000 people that work in China to make these precursors. There are people in the cartels. They are businesspeople, and multi-trillion dollar industries don't die overnight. They're well-trained. They train from the top down, and these are salespeople approaching your kids. If we don't teach them how to get through those high-pressure situations, then your kids are susceptible, even from a 17-year-old kid who's been very well-trained, who's charismatic, who's the life of the party, and your kid wants to be popular. So I tell pa-parents to run scenarios, role play. Talk to your kid, talk to your kids."What are you gonna do when so and so says this?" You know, drug test your kids. That's an easy way. We were just talking about this on this panel two days ago. That's an easy way to be like,"I can't. My mom drug tests me at random, and if this shows up, you know, I'm, I'm dead." an excuse, a reason to say no. Yeah. articulate that to your kid in a way where you're not being like, "I don't-- It's not that I don't trust you. I wanna give you a reason to say no. So I'm gonna sporadically drug test you, and then you can just say,'No, I get drug tested by my parents.'" And, um, yeah, that's, that i- that is a good tool. And I think you're right. When I talk to students, and I've talked to them all across the country, I talk to them about how this is about greed, and they are the targets. They are the next customers for these cartels. And cartels are a serious business. They have accountants, lawyers, They do. Yep. Yep. There are businesses, and if, if we don't give our kids to, to, you know, the ability to learn from these high-pressure sales… Like, as adults, like I was mentioning, if we have a hard time as adults saying no to these high-pressure sale situations, how do we expect our ti- our, our young kids who have never been in these situations before to say no, and to be able to say, "No, thanks." But, you know, once you do say no, that-- I, I know when I go to the mall now, I'm like, "No, thanks," and I walk right by because I know. I've learned. I've learned to say no, and that's it. You just walk and you say no. And it gives other kids in the room the ability to be like, "Oh, God. They didn't do it. Now I can say no, too." And you're gonna be a leader in that, and that's great, and you're gonna be alive tomorrow. So I think this is the biggest lesson that kids need to know. Talk to your kids and run scenarios. Please run scenarios. Give them the script and practice it so that when it comes out of their mouth, it's natural. They know they have to say no, they know how to say no, and give them the ability to do it and the courage and conviction to say no The other thing that we really try to do at Emily's Hope, because kids won't always listen to adults, uh, to their teachers or their parents, right? But they will often listen to other kids. Yes to create peer leaders with our youth empowerment clubs Yes the message to other kids. And if they, if, if more kids are telling other kids about-- I just saw a study in JAMA recently that many kids don't even realize the danger of fentanyl. And you think with advocates like us, like we're talking about this all the time, we're going into schools, but not enough kids are getting the education, and they really need to hear it from their peers, too Yeah, they do. And I think peer-to-peer education is huge. We had it when I was growing up. It was probably during R- Nancy Reagan's Just Say No thing. Um, it was, I wish it, it, it, you know what? Just Say No was a good idea. It was, but it was a bubble. It was just say no, but if you pop that bubble, there's nothing inside. This is why I tell you, you have to have these layers of protection. Talking to your kids is great. They're telling them to say no, give them the tools. But peer-to-peer is so important in this whole f- in this whole j- l- entire onion. Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices. Our age appropriate lessons start in kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories, and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emilyshopeedu.org to learn more and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. At Emily's Hope, we believe peer-to-peer conversations about the dangers of illicit substances are important. That's why we include this information in our K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum and offer youth empowerment clubs and teams designed to give students a voice in promoting wellness, leadership, and prevention. Want to learn more about our programs? Head over to our website, emilyshope.charity. You can find a link in the show notes And where else would you like to take your advocacy work? Um, I mean, I've, I'm taking it everywhere. It just, um, there's no limits to where I'll take it if it's gonna save lives. I, I do want… Now, I will say this, I do wanna get more focused on the faith-based, um, to kind of go more into the faith-based, you know, arenas. I haven't really, um, done specific faith-based arenas at this point, but I think a lot of churches are vulnerable because they think, "Well, our kids are Christian, they're not gonna do it." So Right. Yeah, I do, I did have this false sense because I took my daughter to church, she was active in church, she, uh, w- she went to a private school. I think I had this false sense of security that this kind of thing wouldn't happen to her, that would somehow protect her. Um, but that's not the case No. I mean, uh, I think churches think that, and I think Christian schools think that. When we, you know, when we talk to people who try to get into schools a lot, they really have a hard time with, you know, bringing their message into Christian schools. It's, it's a tough school to break. even with Yeah we've had a really hard time getting into the Christian and the Catholic schools e- even in my own community. We're all across the nation, but those are, can be. We're in one small Christian school, which I'm so appreciate, but the larger ones, we've had a lot of trouble getting our curriculum in there. It's almost like, well, parents, we don't want parents to think this can happen here, so we don't wanna teach or talk about it Yeah. I mean, it, it… I, I don't understand it. I, I mean, there's, there's… This could happen to anyone in, in any faith, and it's not really about your faith. You know, you hope that, you know, you've done a good job on teaching them, but sometimes peer influence is stronger, and,"God will forgive me tomorrow. I'll ask for forgiveness," instead of, you know, permission type of attitudes. Um, you know, these kids also in their teen years, and I'll, I'll mention this, and Christian schools know this, begin questioning their faith. And so you have this, you know, perfect storm of, you know, where, who, where is God? Who's God? And where am I going? And, you know, everybody else is having fun, and doesn't seem so fun to not have fun. So, you know, you never know. Christian schools are just as vulnerable as any other type Certainly. And I went to, grew up going to a Catholic school, and we had a lot of kids back then before fentanyl was on the scene, it was a long time ago, but were, who were in rehab, right? So it wasn't like there was any sort of magical inoculation from these kinds of problems just because you're in a Christian school. No, there's, there's, there's, there's no magic at all. Um, it's unfortunate that, you know, we can't break through because, you know, you're supposed to just hope that you've done a good job teaching them that their faith, this would be something. And I don't even know what they teach them, to be honest with you. I think they just leave-- You know, I think they leave that to the parents. But it's important to talk to your kids. Th- this is just a different-- It's, it's not your, you know, the here's what you hear all the time. It's not your parents' Woodstock weed. And I think that's where probably people in education systems, it's not happening in their high-end communities, in their private schools because people have money. And I, I can tell you that we lived in a guard-gated golf course community, like we had it all, and we went to private schools, and happened to us. So it can, but I think that there's, you know, stigma. There's always that stigma. But we're dealing with a different generation of drugs. Fentanyl wasn't around back in our day. Uh, it, you know, you could probably experiment and live to tell about it typically. Um, not these days. You-- Was during the time that my dun- my son died during the deadliest time. It was in 2022. And y- you know, seven out of 10 pills are deadly. Thank God under this president, we have about three out of 10 pills are deadly, and I think that's partially due to the cartels saying, "Why are we killing our clients?" People kept asking that question, and it was always my answer was, "Because they really don't care. They have more clients coming through the door." But And I, yeah, I had the DEA tell me, I've asked that question too, and I had the DEA say,"Well, the line is out the door. The demand is so strong, there's Yeah where that came from, so they really don't care." But at some point, you know, what we're trying to do on so many fronts is decrease the demand, right? So if there's no demand, um, hopefully there's less fentanyl Yeah and, and, and it's the next thing though. It's the next analog. It's the nitazines. It's the other things that, you know. That's it. Fentanyl, you know, fentanyl's a thing here now, but behind it are all the, the nitazines, etonitazines, isonitazines, all the tranquilizers and, you know, the rhino tranquilizers, elephant tranquilizers. Want to stay up to date on the latest developments in the evolving opioid epidemic? Our reporters track the latest details each day for our news headline services. Again, just head over to our website, emilyshope.charity. And I don't think most people know this. Once you try fentanyl once, y-you're hooked. It's 50 times more addictive than crack, 100 times more, um, stronger than morphine. This is, like, much worse than heroin. Most people don't even realize that, and they're putting it in things that your kids do. Vapes, marijuana. People have this idea that if you smoke it, marijuana, it's not gonna hurt you because it'll have burned off. No. People intentionally smoke fentanyl, so that whole thing is just out the window. Um, it's in vapes, marijuana, it's in cocaine, it's… And then, then of course, it's in, you know, for people who are drug addicts, it is in heroin, and they don't deserve to be deceived to death either. They don't need, deserve to be poisoned. And when you see these people on the streets these days bent over like Gumby and, and, you know, in a, in a trance, they don't wanna be that way. And, and it's not the same drug ad-addicts as before, and I hate the stigma that goes around it. These people don't want to be there. They are trapped. They cannot stop. It is the most horrible withdrawal symptoms that, yes, they can kill you, and after one time of trying. And that, um, metatomidine is what it's called. Metatomidine, that will kill you the first time trying withdrawal symptoms. And yes, there is another one that you were talking about as well, and it's just the generation of drugs coming up are just outside of an-any realm of understanding Terrifying. Terrifying. And so we have to start, um, as we do with, like, five-year-olds in kindergarten, start talking to kids right away and educate everybody on this issue and protect everybody from it. I mean, nobody deserves to be suffering from substance use disorder, and everybody deserves a chance to get well and to heal from that. And I think it's so much about talking about it, educating, ending the stigma, getting people help and treatment, and of course, stopping it on the international level from ever entering our borders in the first place. And, and the, that's challenging with the mail and with ships and, uh, there are many ways to get it here, so and an ounce of compassion. Like, put down your phone and go help the person bent over, you know? See if they need, you know, see if they're alive, you know? Or, you know world could use more compassion everywhere. I, I agree with you 100%. And I, I just wanna thank you so much for being on the podcast. Are there any that you'd like to leave us with today? Talk to your kids about everything. Talk to your kids about drugs. Role play, give them the script, and really talk to them about peer pressure and why it's so important to be able to have that courage and strength to say no. advice thank you so much, Anne. I really appreciate our conversation I, I did as well. Thank you so much for having me on And thank you again for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. I hope you found it helpful. Join us every week for a new conversation. You can check out hundreds of previous episodes anytime on our website, emilyshope.charity. We'd also appreciate it if you'd just take a moment to rate and review this podcast and share it with friends and family. Together, we can raise awareness and hopefully save and transform lives. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Kayli