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I think every woman could honestly say that they were pushed into sex or sexually assaulted or raped, or even at a younger age, molested, you know? It's, um, it should be talked about a lot more And so you were so young when you were sexually assaulted, and did you carry it as a secret then? I did. I did. I felt like it was my fault. Um, I was threatened. Shame is a big part of it. Yeah, it is. It's, um, I think one of the driving factors in trying to cover up who you really are, when you do drugs, it gives you that superpower or the ability to forget who you were, and you just become someone else when I was arrested, I didn't have a bond, um, because I was pregnant is what they said. So I, I was arrested, I did not get released until eight and a half years later. but my sister, um, met me at the hospital and I handed my son over to her and Oh my gosh and, and, uh, I cried for a whole year I think. And I'm sure you understand it differently now when you look back on your younger self, your reasons for using and the reasons why so many people use Yes, I do see it differently. I see myself as a child who needed, um, reassurance that it was okay to speak up, it was okay to tell someone, and that it wasn't my fault. If I could reach out to every single teenage girl or even a younger girl today, I would tell her, "You are precious. let anybody touch you in a bad way, and speak up if somebody does." What do you do with a wound no one knows you're carrying? Today's guest grew up on a reservation, raised in a loving home by her grandparents. At 13, she was sexually assaulted while away from home, and she carried that weight quietly, the way so many survivors do. She turned to drugs to cope, and what followed was a long,

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meth addiction, federal charges, and a 10-year prison sentence. When Lorie Seeking Land was released, she looked around for someone who truly understood what she had been through, someone who had walked the same ground and had come out on the other side. She couldn't find that person, so she became her. Today, Lorie is a certified peer coach at Face It Together, an addiction wellness nonprofit, and more than eight years after her release, she is walking back through those prison walls, this time to help other women learn to love themselves and plan for a life beyond the prison. She also has known the specific grief that belongs to so many in this community. In 2023, she lost her son, Matt, at age 37. Lorie Seeking Land knows what it means to carry shame, to survive, and to transform, and I'm so honored to have you join us. Welcome, Lorie. Thank you for having me, Angela Oh, of course. Let's talk about growing up on the reservation, because I've had other guests on here, Native American guests, who have struggled with some of the conditions on the reservations, some of the generational substance use disorder and abuse that happens. What are your memories from that time? My memories are-- my childhood memories are great. Mm-hmm. had a beautiful childhood. Um, grew into a teenager, turning 13, I started to socialize more with my friends and, um, that's when I was taken advantage of and sexually assaulted, and I immediately isolated myself and started smoking marijuana. I really didn't have any options of groups or anything to turn to at that time, so I isolated more and just started smoking marijuana more. About time I was I was dabbling in every other drug that came my way, not a whole lot of social activities going on on the reservation, we just look for groups of people that will accept us, um, and that's where we end up For people who've never been to a reservation, and I'm sure many of our, our listeners have not been, what they may not understand about it is it's, it's very isolated. Reservations are very isolated, and, and we have such a large, uh, geographical state here in South Dakota where you and I live. But even in other states where there are reservations, they're often more isolated. And so there's not a lot to do. Uh, there aren't always a lot of resources. And I think people can't really comprehend that unless they've been there. Correct. Correct. So like here in Pierre, we have the bowling alley, we have the theater, we have the Right we have softball parks, um, we have parks, swimming pools. Um, the reservations, most reservations don't have any, um, programs like that. We have a gymnasium, but it's not always open for the public And so you were so young when you were sexually assaulted, and did you carry it as a secret then? I did. I did. I felt like it was my fault. Um, I was threatened. all of the things that come along with being assaulted, I- my… The person that assaulted me used those comments to keep me quiet I am so sorry that that happened to you and you have to look back on your younger self and feel so much compassion. And can you talk about what you understand now? Because obviously at the time, first of all, you go through this horrible trauma, your brain isn't fully developed, you start using substances. I'm sure it made you feel better when you started using marijuana and then moved on to other drugs and alcohol or whatever else it was. That made, that was a way of coping. It worked, right? Yeah, at the time And I'm sure you understand it differently now when you look back on your younger self, your reasons for using and the reasons why so many people use Yes, I do see it differently. I see myself as a child who needed, um, reassurance that it was okay to speak up, it was okay to tell someone, and that it wasn't my fault. If I could reach out to every single teenage girl or even a younger girl today, I would tell her, "You are precious. let anybody touch you in a bad way, and speak up if somebody does." And it wasn't your fault. And I think I, I just recently wrote a blog about my daughter and some sexual abuse that she suffered at the beginning of high school, which I don't think I dealt with properly at the ti- you know, looking back, hindsight is 20/20. But I, I'm always looking for ways to try to understand why, when she seemed to have so much going for her, my daughter, and so many advantages. You didn't have all those advantages liv- growing up on a reservation that she had. And I w- I often try to piece the puzzle together, right? Like, why did she start using substances? Why were they so attractive to her? And I think the reason is so often trauma and grief. Shame, too. Shame is a big part of it. Yeah, it is. It's, um, I think one of the driving factors in trying to cover up who you really are, when you do drugs, it gives you that superpower or the ability to forget who you were, and you just become someone else But that so-called superpower was fleeting. Before long, Lori was not only carrying the shame and trauma of her assault, but also battling a growing addiction to drugs. The friends around her changed too, becoming a circle shaped by substance abuse and self-destruction. And my first real addiction was and I started using cocaine when I was about 19 years old. And I realized, um, a few years later that I couldn't do it anymore. Um, I went cold turkey. I had some friends that sat beside me and gave me water and whatever I needed. Um, I think I locked myself in my room for a couple days just to get over that, through that withdrawal. But after that, I couldn't function. I had no ambition. I didn't realize at the time that my brain stopped creating dopamine. Um, so I started using meth because it gave me energy and an ambition, and eventually I was intravenously using methamphetamine, and I did that for 15 years Fi- did you, did… charge Laura, did you say 15 years? 15 years It's a very long time to use methamphetamine, and it has such a powerful hold on the brain, these drugs. Methamphetamine is more powerful than ever and, uh, you know, the kind of methamphetamine that's out there now, and it ha- it just, it, it just seizes the brain, and it's so hard for the brain to recover from that. Tell me how the, um, charge came about that you were facing. Um, okay, so I had tried to quit several times, um, throughout that 15 years, and I'd quit for a little bit and then I'd start in again because I couldn't function, couldn't get past that gray area of, um, withdrawals. And I eventually moved home down to my mother's in Fort Thompson. I had my-- set up my own place and, um, a whole new territory, I, um, noticed different people starting to pull up and, um, ask me if I could get 'em meth. And I myself didn't have any, so I went and got it from someone else to give to them, and they were working with the Northern Plains Drug Task Force at that time So it was a sting basically is what you're saying? Yep. Yeah So you were caught basically distributing meth is what they would call it legally i- in a sting, and you received a 10-year sentence. Is that right? That's correct That seems… Had you been-- Had you had other drug charges on your record? I had a marijuana charge in when I was about 21. Um, I did 30 days for that in county jail. And the federal system uses every felony you have, it moves you up a level on their sentencing bracket. if I hadn't had that first charge, it would've been five years. So since I had that charge, it moved me up to another bracket, so that's 10 years. And these are minimum sentences, or so they're mandatory minimums So mandatory minimum. And so m- many people feel, you know, very angry at drug dealers and say they should be punished, we should have really harsh sentences. 10 years for you, uh, for giving someone meth or selling it, I don't know if you sold it or gave it away, but whatever, distributing meth, seems like a really long sentence It was. It was a really long sentence I mean, I've heard of people going for two years, three years, that kind of thing. I mean, I just am wondering why your sentence was so harsh just based on a marijuana charge when you were younger Yeah, I sometimes wonder too I'm sure you do. And I wonder if it has to do with economic or racial disparities Yeah, I think it's definitely a factor when the state gives out six months for the same charge and when you're on a reservation, um under federal jurisdiction. So that's something people don't understand. Can-- Let's explain that just for a minute for people. So yes, there's a difference between being charged at a state level and at a federal level, and reservations are independent nations, and they fall under federal jurisdiction. Correct So you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, um, being caught doing something like this. 10 years. And so how many years did you serve behind bars? I served eight and a half So almost the full 10. Yes Tell me about what that was like, first of all, being sentenced to prison, going to prison. What was that like for you? How old were you at the time? I was 40 years old. Um, I had just learned that I was pregnant, um, so I wasn't using at the time of my indictment. Um, and when I was arrested, I didn't have a bond, um, because I was pregnant is what they said. So I, I was arrested, I did not get released until eight and a half years later. but my sister, um, met me at the hospital and I handed my son over to her and Oh my gosh and, and, uh, I cried for a whole year I think. Of course you did. Lorie, let's talk about that for just a moment. I, I can't imagine going through something like that, having to go to prison knowing you're giving birth, and then, I mean, thank God you had family to help you take care of your child. But having to just… First of all, every mother who's given birth knows that immediately, you know, you wanna be with that child, take care of that child. Um, I mean, were you given any sort of assistance to cope with that? No. Oh of fact, as soon as I got back to Hughes County Jail, I had my wound, um, that needed to be taken care of, so they put me in a drunk tank What? till that healed and I could be put in general population More trauma, more trauma upon trauma for you Yeah. it was. Yeah here today, Angela, I can't believe that I've lived through all that That you survived it. I, I, I can't believe it either, Lorie. I'm, I'm think you must be very, very resilient and strong. And so you've given birth to your son, you've handed him over to your sister, you're on your way to federal prison. Where did you end up? I ended up in Alderson, West Virginia Tell me about that experience Um, when I was sentenced, when the judge said 120 months, I made up my mind right there that I was gonna change my life, change my people, try to get an education, and that's exactly what I did. I went to, um, FCI Alderson, West Virginia, and I, looked into all their educational programs and reading the policies and one of the policies is that if you exhaust every educational class or program there, you can move to a different prison to find further education. So that's exactly what I did. I signed up for the HVAC apprenticeship program. Um, I completed that, and I also took every educational course they had to offer in the evenings. So I was constantly in class going to school. And I think I left there with 2,800 educational hours, um, in various departments. And, um, put in for a transfer and then I went to Waseca, Minnesota and I took the RDAP program, is the Residential Drug and Alcohol Program. what did you learn in that program? I learned that, um, we need to control our emotions first of all, um, control our consequences by thinking things through. And I immediately thought of the worst case scenario of any issue and if it led to prison, or led to shame, I rethink it and do the opposite. Um, it teaches you to change your people, places and things, your surroundings. Put yourself in uncomfortable surroundings where you can better yourself. Um Reach out to people for help. Um, set up a kind of like a security team, someone you can contact. if you're in a tough spot, if you're having a hard day and you feel like using, you can call that person and they can immediately come get you. Um, set up safety places, safety… Just a safety plan in general for every scenario that you might use There's so much more the program teaches, I think. It teaches you how um, be in those comfortable places while you're making that transition to recovery and a recovery lifestyle. Um, it's definitely one of the best programs that I've taken, and I think the majority of women that were in my class are succeeding today at Well, that's amazing to hear because so often you hear, especially at, I guess more at the state level, but you hear that people don't get the help they need. They don't get, um, ways to cope, and they don't really get anything out of being in prison other than being locked up for so many years. It sounds like you, because of something inside of you, also made the best of a really difficult situation. Yeah. That was my plan And so eight, you're, you give birth to your son, eight and a half years go by. I'm sure he visited you and those kinds of things, but I mean, you get out, your son is almost nine years old Yeah So much lost in that, of being able, Exactly. with your child as they're growing up. So you're released from prison and you're four- almost 50 years old? Yep, 50 years old when I was released Yeah. And so what, in what year would that have been? How long ago? That was in 2018 Okay, so not that long ago really, in eight, eight years ago. Yeah you're, so you're, you released from prison eight years ago. Did you have any desire to use drugs? I mean, were-- first of all, one question I have, because we hear of overdoses in prisons, were drugs available in the federal prisons that you were in? Definitely. They were. Yes Mm-hmm. And did you ever use in prison? No, I didn't. Yeah. Well, you were learning so much and you were just trying to improve yourself. I guess you had eight and a half years for self-improvement. I, uh, that's how you have to look at it, right? Yeah. And did you ever get any kind of therapy for the sexual assault that you've experienced at 13 and any of the trauma that you went through? While I was in the RDAP program, um, we-- our class was 25 women, um, and we went around and we all shared one thing that we were keeping a secret for our whole lives that was leading us back to our addiction, and half of us said sexual assault. Um, so we started a group, and we all shared our stories, and we would clap and say,"Thank you for sharing. You helped me share, too." a wonderful group, and I got healing out of that group than I did my whole life. Yeah able to share my story and be honest about the details and how I felt and how I feel about it today, and I was able to say, how I really felt about this person, um, without holding back, and it was just a release of a ton of bricks. Um, and that's where I left it Wow, Lorie, I am so grateful that you got that help. But what saddens me so much is that 90% of the women who are in prison, it's usually involving some kind of substance, so they have some kind of substance use disorder, and the cause or the root of that is trauma, often sexual abuse, and it's not getting addressed in the way that I would-- I wanna see it addressed, and I'm sure you wanna see it addressed Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There are a lot of women sitting in prison right now that for the first time have shared story with, with someone, and that someone was me. I got to be a part of their healing journey, and I feel honored to be able to do that for them. I don't think the public realizes how, how much sexual assault is, is in our area or e- everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere I think, I think every woman could honestly say that they were pushed into sex or sexually assaulted or raped, or even at a younger age, molested, you know? It's, um, it should be talked about a lot more Yeah, unfortunately it is so common and, and often leads to these horrible outcomes for people's lives, and our prison systems, federal or state, don't really know how to deal with that. They're not really getting to the root of the cause of substance use disorder, and I'm hoping that we can change that in our society. I'm hoping by conversations like this we can change that. But I wanna know, you get out at 2018, in 2018, and you immediately are willing to go back in? I mean, did this happen pretty quickly that you're like,"I wanna go back in and help other women who are in my situations in state prison"? Yeah, I-- it was my goal. I wanted to give back, um, because I had such a long sentence and I had time to heal, and I realized just… I look back at the me before I was arrested, and I needed help. guidance, I needed guidance from who understood me for what I've been through. Um, unless you walk that path and have survived it successfully, you really don't know what that's about No, of course not. I mean, I have no idea what it's like to suffer from substance use disorder. Well, first of all, I have no idea what it's like to grow up on a reservation. I have no idea what it's like to suffer from substance use disorder, be sexually assaulted in that way, um, and to spend time in prison, right? I'm not a person who can walk in and-- I mean, I can be compassionate and we all can be more compassionate, but-- and maybe more empathetic, but we, we can't really-- we haven't walked in those shoes. So the person to really help someone is someone like you who's walked in those shoes Yeah. Yeah, so I, um, I put myself in a very uncomfortable position at Capital Area Counseling when I was released from prison. I took on… I was hired as a receptionist, and I was surrounded by counselors and great people that were helping everybody that walked in the door. Um, and that's where I became a better person, was surrounding myself with very good people. Well, thank God you got that job because it can be very hard to get a job when you have a, a felony and a prison sentence on your record Yeah, it is hard A lot of women don't have jobs for a couple months, and then they have to settle for, um, McDonald's, Nate. you know, Nate or serving. So I was very fortunate. I seen the position in Indeed, and I thought, "You know what? That would be a good place for me to be." um, thank you to Jennifer Gray. She gave me a chance, and I worked there for six and a half years And in the process you became a peer support specialist, basically? How did that come about? So I seen, uh, the posting, um, for the coaching position with Face It Together, and I applied for the job and they said I was a perfect fit for, um, a coach at the women's prison. And I live maybe a half a mile from the prison, so it was a perfect match Oh, it's just, it's almost like a divine thing, right? That you were guided in this way and, and were able to secure this position. And now how often do you go in the prison? How many women do you work with? And tell me what, how you've been able to help them and have they also… I always think about this because the helper and the person being helped, oftentimes the person being helped also helps the helper. So can you talk to me about that? Yes, I have, um, coached 52 women, um, in prison so far, and I-- at any one time, I have 20 people, um, a week, I go to the main building on Tuesdays, and then on Thursdays, I go to PMC, which is a lower level, um, of security. And the women there are so thankful for the help. I have a list that's probably 50, 50 names long. Um, unfortunately, I don't get to see or help everybody before they leave because it's just not possible. Um, the things that the women share with me are, um, of course, they're missing their children is one of'em, and how they wanna get back to their children. So we start working on the traumas that they've lived through and the-- what's been keeping them coming back to their addiction. And most of the time, it's sexual assault. Um, and about 50% of the women, I would say, have lost a loved one, like a mother, father, child, while they're incarcerated. So there's a lot of, a lot of, um, heaviness when they walk in the room for the first time, and they have no problem expressing their emotions, their feelings, because they don't get the opportunity to do that anywhere else in there Well, that's unfortunate. And what percentage of women would you say you work with who are Native American? I would say 80% 80%. It helps that you're Native American too, but I think that also it's such a travesty that we lock up so many Native American women who are suffering from substance use disorder, that we know the rates are, you know, so much higher, um, among this population. We don't give them the treatment that they need to fully recover. We separate them from their children. It's just like, why can't we come up with a better way? Yeah. I say that too. And you know, when I think about, uh, federal prison, it's a federal reserve, the land that it's on, right? And so it's a reservation. Um, the federal prisons, um, the federal reserves, the prisons more to offer, individuals than our own reservations Right. Right. It's, it's sad. It's really actually tragic. But you, you go, you… I just admire you so much for going back into the prison, um, offering your life experience to these women. And how do they do some of the… You've been doing this for a little while now. How do these women do when they get out? Do you stay in touch with them when they get out of prison? Definitely, yes. I stay in touch with them, and we s- continue to meet once a week. Um, I will see 'em as long as they need it, as long as they need support. Um, I have probably, I think, four women that I have been seeing for, next month would be a year, and they have been out for months now. And one is in college. Um, two of them are actually in college. One is gonna go to, um, culinary school in Sioux Falls, and I do have another one who is, um, researching cosmetology and trying to find funds to do that So they are trying to make better futures for themselves with your guidance. Yeah Yes. Yeah, I really push education, furthering education, um, so that they can have a better quality of life Yeah. Well, you certainly did that on your own when you went to federal prison. You educated yourself in every way possible. And is it rewarding for you to do this work and to see these women want better for themselves? Yes, it is. Um, I share my story of I've been through and how I handled my situation, and it gives them hope that they can do it too with guidance. And leaving the prison is Um, I don't know what's gonna happen to 'em while I'm gone. Um, South Dakota Women's Prison is, uh, very unpredictable. Um, the inmate behavior can be unpredictable. So I can't wait to get back there on 'em and see how they're doing. Um, You worry. You worry about these women. That's what I hear you saying. yeah. Yeah Yeah, I, I make genuine, um, real relationships with them, um, so that they me, you know? And yeah, they need that guidance Oh, definitely. Well, thank you for all that work that you're doing to help others. How does it help you? It helps me every single time I share my story. empowers me, um, to know that I'm on a right path and that I can continue to speak up. It gives me, um, uh, the confidence to speak freely about my past, um, because I have a success story to share, and it gives them enthusiasm and the drive to do the same thing that I did. Um, a lot of them would also wanna give back when they're ready, a few of them have, um, done interviews with the Face It Together,, and they're finding their confidence, um, in their recovery journey Right. And just being able to share their story is probably just a help in itself If you're a mother grieving the loss of a child, dear friends of mine, moms who've lost children to fentanyl poisoning and overdose, are hosting the Sisters of Strength Warrior Moms Retreat October 9th through the 11th at Wildwood Hills Ranch in St. Charles, Iowa. It's a weekend of healing, connection, horseback riding, and creative remembrance with women who understand. This weekend isn't about forgetting, it's about remembering with love. The link and details are in the show notes. I hope you'll join us Lori's challenges didn't end when she was released from prison in 2018. Five years later, she experienced another devastating loss when her oldest son, Matt, a respected tribal leader, died He'd be 40 this month. Um, the morning after he passed, I-- it was the first time that I ever wanted to really get high. I woke up and it hit me that he's gone, and I immediately started crying and hollering and, um, I went in the kitchen to get my phone, and my mom pats me on the shoulder, and I turn around and I grab her and I said, "Mom, I wanna get high." And I meant it. For the first time through the last 13 years, I wanted, I really wanted to get high. so I shared it with her and she said, "Oh, no." And, um, she said, "Matt wouldn't want that." And the urge immediately stopped. Um, and I, it through. I made it through his services. I made it here today, um, grieving him in a healthy way. And, uh, yeah, I'm proud of myself for that. That was hard I'm proud of you too. There's no easy way through grief. It's you just have to go through it. You have to just plow through it. But so many people, especially someone who suffers from substance use disorder, because you never really-- You're in recovery, but there's always that, the, the threat of relapse there. And when something pro- pro- a profound loss happens in your life, it's understandable that you would have that urge. And I think any- anybody, any-- I've talked to many parents in recovery who've talked about this issue on this podcast, that yes, um, they found a way to stay in recovery, to stay sober, but it wasn't easy. And I, I can understand your feelings Yeah. Even today I have thoughts of what if I got high, you know? Like, just to get through a weekend or, like, his birthday, um, his anniversary, his, of his passing. Um, those are the moments that are truly testing But I've been able to come up with other activities to honor him and, um, that is what I turn to now is honoring him in some kind of way, whether it's through an event, a prayer, a morning routine. Um, I find ways that I know he would want me to do, um, and I do those instead of going straight to having thoughts of using And I'm sure in the back of your mind is also that obligation that you now feel to all these women that you're helping and the relationships that you've formed. I'm sure you'd wanna keep doing that and, and by using, I mean, it would, it would destroy that really Take it all away. I was just having a conversation, with one of the ladies yesterday, and she was talking about, "If I get home and everybody's still using, I'm just gonna leave. I'm gonna go either to Rapid City or Sioux Falls." And, she said, "If I got high now, I would let so many people down." And she said, "Including myself." And it had me thinking, so we had a conversation. You know, I thought if I got high now, I was just on, uh, KSFY being interviewed, um, at the prison, you know? All that would just be for nothing. Right. And I somehow sharing your story and sharing it publicly, whether it's through a television interview or a podcast interview, also keeps people accountable in some sense. And I've had other people in recovery who've been volunteering for Emily's Hope and have shared their story tell me that, that by doing this, they're being held accountable to some extent. Not that, Yeah not that relapse can't still happen, and, and we know that it can, but, um, maybe this is, is one way to prevent it Of course it is. It gives me the drive to not fail And how are your, are your other children doing? Are you in their lives? Yeah, I am in their lives. Um, Joshua is married. He has three children, three girls, 10, eight, and six. Um, Jacob, the baby that I gave to my sister, um, sh- he still lives with her. I see him every other day or so. I take him to school in the mornings. Well, school's out now. And we do things on weekends if he needs a ride or him and his friends wanna go do something. We have a very close relationship now. he calls me Mama Lorie. Um, and I, I would never take him out of his home. He's been there his whole life and, and I'd, I would never do that to him Yeah. I, I understand what you're saying, and I think it's beautiful that you have a, a close relationship with him now. But I feel bad that you had to miss, for him and for you, that you both had to miss all those years together, and you missed the, uh, the years with your other sons as well, and it has to be a painful point of contention for you It is. Um, the past is something that, um, haunts me from time to time, and it gives me, um, strength to move forward. Um, I don't ever wanna put my family through that again, so I put myself in mindset of, "How can I make tomorrow better? How do I prepare for tomorrow?" and that's how I handle those situations is, uh, thinking positive It also strikes me that one person's substance use disorder has a ripple effect on so many others. You know, your children, your other relatives, your sister. It's just people don't think about that when, when a judge is in the courtroom and they sentence you to 10 years behind bars, they're not thinking, you know, how is that impacting her other children? Th- j- just I think society doesn't think about that. They just think about punishment Yeah, I think the judge does sometimes take into consideration, um, the wellbeing of the family, and in this case, in my case, I think that, um, all he saw was someone pregnant involved in drugs. Um, there are some cases like here at the prison where they allow the woman or the mother to be with their, their baby. I think that's great. I think more, um, there should be more opportunity for that to happen, um, or at least have more structured for women who are serving their sentences. Um, and maybe that's something the state is looking into and trying to find funding for that because I think it really helps to the mother, um, something to wake up to other than withdrawals. Um, if they can carry their baby and keep their baby with them, I think that gives them, um, more hope that they're on the right path. Right. Certainly, certainly. It's- I think it's, uh, actually a travesty of justice the way it's set up for mothers in our state, in our nation, and I think we can do better. And we, we- when we know better, we should do better. Uh, but thank you for all the work that you're doing with women, um, in the prison, women getting out of prison, women who are suffering from substance use disorder. Is there anything that you wanna leave our audience with after all of your life experience? I mean, I'm just- I'm really in awe of you and what- how you've taken a situation and really turned it around to help others. Uh, you know, devastating situation. First you helped yourself through education and, and through groups like you talked about that you were in, and then you used that to help others. Anything you wanna leave our viewers and listeners with? Um, If you're struggling with addiction or struggling with something that you can't carry on your own, it's okay to reach out for help. okay to tell somebody and, um, take those actions to find professional help or find someone that can be there with you in the moment. Um, I know another thing that a lot of women, even men, carry that shame and guilt when you get out of prison. Um, there's nothing we can do to change the past. and the longer we carry that, the, more it affects our actions, our thoughts. and self-esteem is such a huge factor when you're re-entering into society and creating a recovery lifestyle. It's okay to let that shame and guilt go. It's okay to leave that behind and move forward and create better tomorrows Yeah. That's beautiful, and I think the people that need to hear that will hear that, and I appreciate everything you do, Lorie. Thank you so much You're welcome- Thank you for listening to this We release a new episode every single week, and you can listen to hundreds of other conversations anytime on our website, emilyshope.charity. We've put a link for you in our show notes. And while you're there, you can also read my blog, learn more about our K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum, and find resources for those struggling with substance use disorder. If you or someone you love is struggling, please know help is available. Substance use disorder is a medical condition that affects millions of people, and reaching out for support is not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of strength. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Kasey Wonenberg King and Kayli Fitz