As a well-known veteran in the music and entertainment industry, David Nathan has played a key role in shaping the careers of A-list artists, including Taylor Swift, Amy Winehouse, and Ariana Grande. Growing up in this industry, you're, you're open to seeing a lot of different things. And my experience is from getting alcohol and being asked to get drugs and doing all these kind of things, um, you know, it kind of runs the gamut, uh, in terms of requests, um, of which, you know, I really never did. But David never imagined his own son would take a pill he thought was a Percocet but was actually fentanyl. His son died at just 19. Now he's focused on his most personal work yet: helping others navigate mental health challenges in his son's honor I vowed the day he passed away that I would never let anybody forget his name. And what makes this mission even more unique is that David's son, Jack, had actually started the mission before his death. He had founded his own apparel company, Happy Jack, and donated some of the proceeds to support children struggling with mental health challenges. He was here for a reason, and he-- his time was up. Um, and he left us, thank God, with a playbook, you know, for Happy Jack in terms of what he wanted, how he wanted it, um, and then a very indelible, um, impression on a lot of people as to who he was. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, David opens up about his son's story, what he hopes other parents can learn from it, and how he's moving forward with a mission that honors Jack. If you've been listening to Grieving Out Loud for a while, you may remember an episode I did with Bradi Harrison Nathan, a mother who lost her 19-year-old son, Jack, to fentanyl poisoning after he took what he thought was a Percocet. It was one of those conversations that stayed with me. Jack wasn't just a kid taken too soon, he was already changing the world. He'd started his own company and was raising money to help other young people struggling with their mental health. Today, I'm sitting down with Jack's father, David Nathan. spent more than 30 years as a powerful executive in the music industry, helping launch the careers of artists like Taylor Swift, Amy Winehouse, and The Weeknd. I actually met David at a live virtual school assembly on fentanyl that was reaching thousands of students across the nation and even the world, and I knew immediately I wanted to get him on this podcast. Because after losing Jack, David didn't step back, he stepped forward. He's now the driving force behind Happy Jack Entertainment, the first mental health-focused entertainment and media company, carrying on the mission of his son, who started and is raising hundreds of thousands of dollars in Jack's name. David, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. Hi, thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, it was such a pleasure to meet you. We were at the tap- well, I guess it was a live, and Yeah. watch it online, and we'll put a link of this virtual assembly with kids. And it was just… I thought it was really powerful. I thought it was really well done, and you were a guest there. Yeah, it was, uh, The Risks are Real, and, um, it was put on by, um, Rick Rendon and his team. And they, uh, I got introduced to them, and they've been doing these, but this was the first one that they actually did that was live and in person and streaming live, um, across the country. And actually, I think it was all over the world, uh, which was amazing. And I, and I was very lucky and, and, um, thankful to be a part of it, even for that tiny little, whatever I was, three, four minutes long. But it was, it was amazing. It was a great experience. I met a lot of people and, um, I learned a, a ton also, quite frankly. I was there because we had a student reporter who is part of our Emily's Hope Youth Coalition and has formed a youth empowerment club at her high school, so she was reporting about the efforts that we're doing with prevention here, and that was really a, a neat deal. Yeah you were asked, I mean, I think because, obviously because you lost Jack, but also because you have a really cool career that appeals to kids. I mean, I, I'm, you know, I was able to, uh… I, I had this conversation literally today with somebody that what I love is the ability to intertwine, um, what I've done in my career and my life and where I am today as a parent, as a grieving parent, um, as a surviving father, and, um, and put it all together. And, um, but I'm lucky enough to be in an industry that is interesting to people and, um, exciting to hear about and to learn about. But again, not to use the pun, but the risks are real, and I just bring a real-life, r- you know, real fatherhood experience to it, and I'm able to, to talk about it from, from true, you know, a true angle. just really, really Yeah. I wanna get into talking about Jack and your relationship with Jack and the kind of kid he was for people who didn't hear the first Yeah. and we'll put a link to that as well, the one with Bradi. But, uh, first I wanna talk about you're in an industry where drugs can be prevalent, where there have been a lot of losses to overdose and fentanyl poisoning. Did you ever think that would happen in your family having seen it sort of on the front lines of the music industry? No, and as you look over my shoulder, you can see a, a plaque of an artist that, uh, had that demise. Not from fentanyl, but, you know, just, uh, from alcohol poisoning and drug addiction in Amy Winehouse. And I, heroin, right? Um, uh, you know, look, I, I grew up in, in an industry, so to speak, that, yeah, it was, it was pretty revelant and, um, or relevant And maybe not as potent, but, you know, growing up in this industry, you're, you're open to seeing a lot of different things. And my experience is from getting alcohol and being asked to get drugs and doing all these kind of things, um, you know, it kind of runs the gamut, uh, in terms of requests, um, of which, you know, I really never did. Um, but, you know, for me, uh, I kind of looked at it from arm's length because it, it never affected me. You know, it, it didn't-- It affected me just because of the situation I was in sometimes, um, with an artist, but it never affected me directly one-on-one. And obviously, when something, um, like what happened to my son happens, it, it changes everything in your life. And that was, you know, he passed away in 2020 when the fentanyl, uh, situation was, like, literally on the rise. Like, you know, it, it hadn't got to that peak point yet, but it was, it was moving in a very steep direction. Jack got a fake Percocet, which Yeah. i- so many kids who have died, that's what they got, was a fake Percocet. he was taking the real thing. Yeah. Tell me about Jack and your relationship with him. Uh, Jack and I butted heads a lot because we were very, very similar in our personalities and our, our vision and our street smarts, our ability to navigate through situations. Um, you know, he was just the greatest kid though. He, he was, he was the glue that kept his friends together. He was the person that was always willing to be that person to help. He was always that one who wanted to create businesses, create, you know… He was selling rocks to construction workers, I think when he was five years old. Um, and so he always had that, that business mindset, that entrepreneurial outlook on life. Um, you know, he played sports. He was tall. He was a good-looking kid. He just, he had everything going for him, and I, and you know, I, I don't know what went through his mind that night. You know, obviously I can't. Um, but you know, I do know that he texted his mom late at night and said that he loved her and that, you know, um, that he would see her in the morning and, and everything was okay. If you're a mother grieving the loss of a child, dear friends of mine, moms who've lost children to fentanyl poisoning and overdose, are hosting the Sisters of Strength Warrior Moms Retreat October 9th through the 11th at Wildwood Hills Ranch in St. Charles, Iowa. It's a weekend of healing, connection, horseback riding, and creative remembrance with women who understand. This weekend isn't about forgetting, it's about remembering with love. The link and details are in the show notes. I hope you'll join us Jack's mom, Brady Harris and Nathan talked about the day her 19-year-old son died during a previous Grieving Out Loud podcast episode. Here's part of that conversation. He decided he was going to go to a 21st birthday party. I wasn't that familiar with this group of friends that he had. He typically hung out with friends he grew up with. And it was about 45 minutes from my house, and he texts me at midnight and he said,"You know, really not safe to drive home. I'm gonna stay the night." And his last text to me was, "I love you more than life Which was very not unusual for Jack to write. And the next morning, I text him. I figured he's still sleeping. I text him again, and I don't even know how much later I got a phone call from Jack's dad, who had learned that Jack never woke up. You can find a link to the full episode in the show notes of this one, and while you're there, please consider taking a moment to rate and review Grieving Out Loud. Share it with someone who may find it helpful. Together, we can raise awareness and make a huge difference Jack wore three necklaces. He had three different necklaces. This is one of them. Um, so if you can see this, it's the smiley face and, which is part of our logo, right? Um, and he had three. He had one that was the smile. He had one that was completely blank, and then he had one that had paint on it. Um, and he wore those based on how he felt, uh, and where he was in that moment. Um, you know, when he wore the blank one, it was when he suffered from his anxiety or depression, and he didn't know where… You know, he was in that gray space, right? That in-between space. When he wore his one with the paint, it was when he was creative, um, and he wanted to like make things and, and, and invent things. And, um, and then he had the smile face on, he was in a really good place. And fortunately for me, this is the necklace that he died in. Um, so I know that he was in a good place, and it was just, you know, luck of the draw. Wow. That's amazing that you, you had that message from him, Yeah. and that brings you some comfort, I would think, as much as it could such a horrific loss, that he was doing okay that day. Yeah, he, he seemed happy. You know, I didn't speak to him, actually s- he, I was actually in a meeting at my house, and he came by, and I was in the backyard, and I, I didn't see him. He left something for me at the front, um, which was a, a Louis Vuitton travel bag that he, um, that he resurfaced and painted and created a piece of art out of, and he left it for me 'cause I had to go get the zipper fixed. But I didn't see him that day, but he left me a text message, you know, and he's like, "I left it in the front. Um, I love you. I'll see you tomorrow." You know, and he was… You know, Jack, our relationship, like I said, was, was tough at times. Um, we were great together. Uh, we loved each other hard, very hard. And, um, but yeah, that day, uh, as far as I, you know, I could tell, he was in a great place and he was always creating, right? Jack was an artist. He, Yeah. did creations and made shirts and all of these things. Yeah, he, uh, I, I always say there was never something that he didn't touch that he made into a better piece of art. Um, Oh. wife, um, Jack's stepmom, we, uh, that night, um, we had a bottle of 1942 tequila that we drank, and he took that bottle and he created a piece of beautiful art with paint dripping down it and a whole bottom piece, and he gave that to Ally and I, um, Jack's stepmom, as a gift, and I still have it in my house here today. It's, it's one of the best pieces. I, I see it every day, and I love it. And I, I just… You know, I look around my house and I, I see when people text me that they have pictures and paintings, and I see people wearing shirts and hats and hoodies and sweatpants and sneakers and socks, and it, it just, it… You know, I, I just, I want everybody to know who Jack was. I want everybody to know what Happy Jack is. I want everybody to know the mission and the message behind the person that he was. And my daughter was quite the prolific artist Yeah. so young, and left us with a lot of art that we use in our charity as well. And It's great. preserving their art, preserving their creations, you preserve a piece of them. Yeah. Oh, 100%. I, I, I, I don't wanna give any of it away. And, um, you know, people have asked-- When, when Jack first passed away, we were lucky enough to open up a store, um, in the seaport down in, uh, in New York City. We had that for about seven months, and we displayed all his art and, and all his clothing and everything. And, and I can't tell you how many times people came in there and asked us to, to bring these and feature them at galleries, or they wanted to buy them. Somebody offered me $45,000 for a painting, and I was like, uh, I, I-- In my mind I'm like, "Should I sell this?" And then, then I'm like, I'm like, "No, do not sell this," because it's one of a kind and it's something very special. Of course, now I have it hanging in my house, so, um, which is, you know, more important to me. I know I initially, right after Emily died, gave away a few of her pieces to relatives, and I had to ask for them back because I wanted Yeah. them in an art Yeah. we do to raise funds. And, um, I haven't given them any more away because, uh, you know, I just It's the only thing we have left of our kids, it Yeah. what they created, um, Yep. other than their spirit. And I know for Jack's mom, uh, your ex-wife, that she really suffered from severe depression after she lost Jack. I mean, it took months. She couldn't get out of bed. What … I think men and women react differently. Mothers and fathers are a little different. How did you cope after Jack's death? Um It, it's, it's very interesting because my, my way, my coping mechanisms are playing sports, being out in public, talking to people, seeing people. Um, if I'm home by myself, um, um, that's my problem. Like, I, I cannot do that. Um, Bradi, you know, was in a very different space. Again, I, I can't speak from a female perspective and the mom's perspective and, and where it comes from. Um, you know, I, I, I just like to be around people. I, I'm constantly trying to smile and look at, like, the, the brighter side of things. Um, a totally different, you know, subject than-- but my wife, um, lost her daughter when she was five years old. So from a, uh… She had a seizure in the middle of the night, and so I didn't know her. Um, Ally got a chance to really know and love and, and be a part of Jack's life for a little bit. But when that happened, when Jack passed, um, I was lucky in a sense that I had, um, a coach. You know, I had somebody, as, as horrible as it is, somebody who'd been through it. And, you know, Ally was able to-- Her family was extremely supportive and, you know, I, I-- if I didn't have that, I, I don't know what happened. I always say that when something like this happens, and I'm sure you can attest to this, and I, and I say it very clearly, um, and I-- and it's harsh, but I say when you, you hit that wall, right? And you're going left and right. I said, "That's it. You're not on that straight path anymore." And I said, and, and I say this very clearly, "Left is a gun in your mouth, and you're done. And right is you figure out how to deal with it, and you figure out what you can do, how you can make change, how you can help other people." Thank God my wife went right. Thank God I went right. Thank God Bradi went right. You know, um, and we're, we're doing everything we can every day, but it's, it's not easy, you know. Yeah, you're, I mean, I think you're absolutely correct because I've talked often on this podcast about, uh, the mother I knew who drank herself to death after her son's overdose, the mother who completed suicide. I mean, that, uh, parents, some parents choose to go left. Mm-hmm. And why some of us are able to go right even though sometimes we may feel like going left, of course. days. I, I was lucky as well. My husband lost his first wife, so he had experienced, you know, ex- extreme loss like that. Yeah. it's not exactly the same, but it certainly helps to have somebody who an understanding of what you're going through. Sure. Yeah. it just, I, I, I just feel like it just, at the very least, it gives me the opportunity to talk to somebody and say, you know, even if it's my wife's ex-husband who was in my situation, right? And he and I actually happen to be very, very good friends. Um, we have a very blended family, and he and I spend a lot of time together and, and, you know, he helps me through a lot. He talks to me like, "Look, you're still grieving. You're still like… I'm 12, 13 years into this. You're only six. You know, you, you still-- This is what's gonna happen." And he coaches me through a lot, and it, it, it really does help me a lot, truly. So you have all these connections in the music industry, and one of the things that Derek Maltz has been saying is the former head of the DEA. He's a, been, been a big, big advocate for parents, uh, in this issue. One of the things he's been saying, and he, I think he said it on my podcast as well, is he'd like to see some of these really famous stars like Taylor Swift and others who have millions of followers start talking to kids and speaking out about fentanyl and some of these other powerful drugs that are out there, and the dangers. Have you ha- But with your connections, have you had anybody in the music industry, industry respond or take on this cause with you? Um, it's almost a trick question because I've, I've had conversations with multiple artists at multiple, at multiple different times. Um, the one who makes the most sense is Jelly Roll, you know, because he, yeah, he's talked about it. Yeah. talked about it, Oh, yeah, he's been on Capitol Hill. He's, you know, he's, he's really put his money where his mouth is and really done it. What bothers me a lot is when the artists talk about their mental health struggles, their addiction, their this and that, and then they don't do anything, you know? Whether they like to believe it or not, they're role models, and they have to, unfortunately or fortunately, live up to that, you know, expectation sometimes. And it's their duty, I think, same way as it's a huge athlete that people respect and, or a big actor. You know, they, they can move m- they can move mountains. You know, they can move the needle, and it's important for them to do stuff. And it's, it's very frustrating, to answer your question, because I have yet to have that one artist come and say, "I'm, I'm jumping on your back. I'm gonna help you." Now, we've done partnerships with Happy Jack, and we've done a variety of different things, but not to the point where I'm satisfied. everyday conversation with these big influencers, 'cause they do have a l- a big, a large voice, a huge platform Mm-hmm. people. They could reach so many people if they choose to. Yeah. Yeah. It, it's… You know, I, I, I call them movers, right? Um, Taylor's a mover, Beyoncé's a mover, Gaga's a mover. Um, you know- Uh, I, there, I mean, there's so many, but it, it, meaning, when I say a mover, I mean if they tell their fan base to do something, even if 10% do it, you're at, you know, you're moving 10 million people, right? Like, and that's a, that's a movement. 10 million's a movement. So it is really just cutting through the clutter and trying to navigate to somebody that's gonna listen. You know, I say, I'll tell people all the time, like, "Put me in a room with Jelly Roll." We know enough people, the same people, um, we can talk commonly about certain things. I've talked to his manager, but I have yet to get to him. But I know that if I get to him, it's game over because he'll, he'll buy right into the story, you know, everything that I'm doing. Well, keep working on that. Keep, keep it up. Yeah, thanks. what you're doing in Jack's name. I know you're, you're doing some things. I know about the T-shirt business, but I don't Yeah. about all the other things that you're doing. Yeah, so, so the, the, the main thing that Jack started before he passed was Happy Jack, which was, um, this community, he created this community for the misunderstood, right? It was art, fashion, and music, um, and he created everything, you know, his whimsical designs. Um, we still run that today. Um, we do, you know, we've probably donated close to $375,000 to different foundations, charities, organizations from that, Wow. we still work with, and we've done collaborations with big artists and, you know, we've done clothing lines and, and all that kind of stuff. But from that spawned, um, the foundation, which is Ha- the Happy Jack Foundation, which essentially is the arm that gives back. We funded stuff at the, at University of Denver, which is where Jack went to school. We f- we fund an art program there. Um, I just finished, I just gave money to the University of Miami to fund a, a movie, um, which is do- fini- just got finished, and they're putting it into the Miami Film Festival, that two students made, um, based on the, the overexposure of phone use and what it's doing to the kids these days. Uh, it's really an amazing piece of product, or piece of art, rather. Um, so that's the foundation, and then what I have started is essentially I wanted to start Happy Jack Records, which would've been the first ever mental health record company that focused on the mental wellbeing of the artist first, putting them first, working with them, with therapists, with financial advisors, with business analysts, with record companies, everybody that could actually come in and create this level playing field so that, you know, this one had an okay experience on the road, and this one didn't get, you know, all his money taken away and, and really keep them sane. The problem with that is, um, it got very, very expensive and, you know, uh, the reality is, like, to sign an artist and put a record out and do everything that you really need to do, you know, you're talking three-quarters of a million to a million dollars just to get that going. That's one And, you know, and then as, as things start to roll, um, it gets more intense. So what we ended up doing was pivoting, um, to start working with influencers and creators, uh, because they're, they're much more approachable. Um, to your point earlier, they have a very big follow… You know, these have-- they have big followings, and they're-- some of them, the bigger ones, are movers. And, um, it gave us the opportunity to, to start creating programming. So we started a YouTube channel. We started putting out, um… We did three shows, um, and then we created one, um, that, that got launched, and then ultimately what happened is the two, uh, the two main characters got into a, a, a fight and, uh, like in real life and, uh, and it ended up this, this show ended up stopping. So we're, we're, we're retooling, um, but the idea is to create this, you know, full-service entertainment company, uh, that deals with artists, that deals with talent, that deals with all the ancillary things that go into anxiety, depression, addiction, you know, and so on and so forth. So I, yeah, do it's a long road ahead, but I, I-- we're excited. Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices. Our age appropriate lessons start in kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories, and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emilyshopeedu.org to learn more, and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. You've got some big ideas. Yeah. do you think Jack would think of what you're doing in his name? I think he'd love it. Um, Jack was a huge music head. Um, he loved, uh, I mean, every time I ever introduced him to, to an artist, he, he wasn't, like, in awe, you know? He was able to actually have, like, conversation, and it was like a normal thing. And I always knew that, you know, his calling was somewhat entertainment-based. Um, so I, I truly believe that he… I mean, look, who knows? You know, I have no idea if Happy Jack would even be around today if he were still here. Who knows? Uh, because he was only 19 years old. But I, I believe in my heart of hearts that what Bradi and I are doing together and separately, um, he would approve of 100%. And does doing this work, talking to me, doing the virtual assembly, the different things that you're doing with Jack's art, does that help you? 100%. It, it, it's, it's my therapy. Um, I, I talk and preach about taking care of yourself, um, being a better person, doing things that you probably didn't or wanna do when you were younger, changing your mindset, changing your lifestyle. Um, and, and I love, I've always loved talking to the younger generation. Um, and the way we started this entire conversation off today was, you know, how do you tie them together? And that's the, that's what I love, is to be able to bring the entertainment side, the music side, um, and Bring in what happened in real life with my son, what's happening in real life every day, um, and, and make it, you know, something that is, is effective and, and where you can learn. So my objective is to educate, entertain, and, and inform. And do you have other kids as well? Yeah, so I have a 20, almost a 23-year-old daughter, Jack's sister, um, who just graduated Indiana last year, go Hoosiers. And, uh, she is a teacher now in the city. She's teaching first grade at a charter school, which, um, she's incredible at. And I have a, um, a 15-year-old stepson who, um, is awesome and amazing, and he and Jack got along so well in that little time that they knew each other. And Drew and Jack, Drew's my daughter, so Drew and Connor, um, you know, they live in the same house, and they're brother and sister now. And we, that's, we're, that's why I said earlier, we're a blended family, and we do… You know, they're amazing together. Drew has a little brother. Connor has, uh, you know, an older sister. And I think it's really good for Ally and I as well, um, to, to live this the way we're living it right now. How have they dealt with Jack's death? Um, you know, Connor was nine, so that was, that was difficult. And so imagine that, right? So you're nine years old, you've lost your sister, now you just lost your stepbrother. Your parents got divorced. Your mom gets remarried. Like it's, I mean, talk about stress and anxiety and pressure. Um, and this kid is a, this kid's a champ. Like, he's come through this, and he's just, he's an incredible kid. He's a DJ. He plays sports. He's l- everyone loves him. He's, like, very talented. He's an entrepreneur. You know, he's got a business already, and he's 15. Um, but I'm sure, you know, if you really sat down and you talked to Connor, he, i- i- he, some which way, he'd talk about it, you know? And, and I'm sure it, it, it upset him a lot. Um, Drew, you know, Drew, Drew's very much like Bradi in a sense of she kinda takes her emotions and keeps 'em in. Um, and it's, so it's sometimes it's really difficult to have a conversation. But she's done… You know, she went, graduated high school, got her driver's license, went to college, had the experiences, got a job, all without him. And, you know, these are experiences that you want your sibl- your, your kids to experience together. Um, so that's tough. But, um, I mean, based on the situation, she's an incredible human being. She has a lot of similarities to Jack in terms of being that glue to her friends and being that person that always cares about, uh, other people and, and wants to make sure everybody else is okay regardless of whether she knows them or she doesn't. Yeah. One of the things that I think about now, because Emily died in 2018, Jack died in 2020 Yeah. the pandemic, Mm-hmm. I-- it's been a few years, and we're still out there doing this work. I think a lot of people Thought we'd stop, or maybe we thought we'd stop at some point. And it's still really important to me is even though overdose numbers are going down, they're not low enough. I've talked to lots of Yeah. this. We can't be satisfied with No. 72,000 people dying every single year. What keeps you going? What keeps you continuing to work on this issue in your son's name? Um, that's a good question. The-- Ultimately, what drives me is, is his memory and his vision and what he stood for and who he was as a human being. Um, not as my son, not as an adult, not as a kid, just as a human being, and what he believed in. And I truly believe that… You know, I didn't for a long time, but now I believe that there's a reason why Jack left us at nineteen. Um, and I, I'm pretty sure that Bradi probably said the same thing, um, which is, you know, he was, he was here for a reason, and he-- his time was up. Um, and he left us, thank God, with a playbook, you know, for Happy Jack in terms of what he wanted, how he wanted it, um, and then a very indelible, um, impression on a lot of people as to who he was. And that, to me, is the most important thing and what I wanna maintain and keep out there is who Jack was, what he wanted to do, and anything that Bradi and I can accomplish because of it, um, is just an attribute to him. Yeah, most people don't get that. Most people don't get, like, a roadmap. He had already started a Yeah. He was trying to help you with mental health, so it just made sense, like you're gonna carry that on. Yeah, we, we have, you know, I said we have-- I have a book of pictures and images and designs and, and ideas and, and sayings and all these different things that he, he just believed in and lived and, and it really did. You know, he started this company. He launched this company on his own. He didn't want my help in the music industry. He didn't want Bradi's help in corporate America. He, he was like, "If I mess up, I mess up, and if I, if I do something wrong, I'm gonna learn." And he just really felt that way, and I give him a lot of credit because he did mess up. And he-- but he made-- he, he changed from it. And, and the, and, you know, how he looked at all of these things and the people he hired, the companies he found, the printers, the, you know, all the, the, the shipping deal he did with the post office and all these things. He was a deal maker, and he was able to negotiate these things and figure it out. And like, what eighteen or nineteen-year-old does that? And, and it's a tr- you know, it's just a true testament to who he was. Yeah, I always talk about when I talk to audiences and I show them pictures of our kids, of young people that we've lost, what I talk about is the lost potential to the world. Oh, yeah. it's just so sad to me. I think about the art that could've been created, the books that could've been written, the music that could've been produced, all of these things. Businesses that could've been started. Entrepreneurs like Jack, uh, who combined a lot of those things. Yeah. think it's-- we've lost so much by losing so many young people like Jack, like Emily, and so many others. Yeah, it's-- I mean, there's nothing, there, there's nothing I can say that can echo better what you just said than, than what you just said. But it's, you know, the situation is what it is. And again, you have two options, and that's, you know, going this way and not caring and curling up in a ball and, and not facing reality and life or trying to do some good. And, and that's, that's what keeps me going, you know, is, is trying to m- trying to do good. And if I can help one person or, you know, one-- somebody that because of this interview, somebody sees it and, and make-- calls me and says, "Hey, I appreciate what you s-" You know? Then it's working. And, and that's-- We need more of that today. we do. We do. As well as more people speaking out, Yeah. those influencers and people that have been personally impacted by this crisis, and there Sure. music industry and others, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, A hundred percent. I, I, I just wanted to ask you, what do you want to leave our viewers and listeners with? what would you like people to know about Jack or about your efforts, or you like to leave them with, I, I think the, the main line to this whole thing is, is have conversation. You know? I-is speak no matter what. And, and whether my conversation, if I saw Jack that day or I didn't, you know, the sliding door prophecies, right? Like, would it have changed? Maybe he didn't go to the party because I wanted to hang out with him. I, I, I have no idea. Yeah. but I, I think one of the things that I always tell everybody is communicate. Don't be afraid to have that conversation. You know? Be the bridge, right? Not the anchor. You know, the anchor's going over and drowning in the water. The bridge is what gets you from point A to point B. And, and I believe that the more you talk to your kids, the more you let your kids talk to you. And I love going out and speaking and talking and doing these kind of things because, again, if I can help one person, then it's made a difference. And that's how Jack looked at life, and that's how I look at life. And has it changed? A hundred percent it's changed. I still-- I was always like that, but now it's just more powerful and it's more meaningful. Yeah. I always say if just one life is saved in Emily's name, it will-- everything that I've done will have been worth it. And I know that lives have been saved, Yeah, you have, a hundred percent. You've done an incredible job at what, what you've built and, and it has changed tremendously, uh, people's lives. the, th- that's where the reward is in all of Yes. otherwise, you're just, you're, you're talking about a subject that's heavy. You're thinking about a child that you lost all the time. I mean, not that you wouldn't if you weren't doing this work, but it's reinforced. Mm-hmm. we just have to know that it is making a difference, what you're doing in Jack's name, talking about him today on this podcast. And we'll share some of his work, and we'll share links, you know, to the things that you're doing. It does make a difference for Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, uh, that's why you got to go on, right? Like, you know, it's, it's important to me, it's important to Bradi, um, it's important to my daughter, it's important to my wife, it's important to our extended families, my, my parents, Bradi's parents, that we, we do everything we can to keep Jack's legacy alive. And, and, and I, I vowed the day he passed away that I would never let anybody forget his name. And, and that's the, that's the truth. And however I do that, you know, or I choose to do it, or what I build or what I create, or what we shut down and what we reopen, and that's all meant to be seen. But I don't know. Well, that's where we are. Well, happy Jack and Yeah. face necklace, and that's a story that sticks with me. And I l- I do, I do think it's a gift that you know that he was, he was doing well that day. He made a choice that we all wish that he hadn't made. Um, and someone else made a choice to put fentanyl in what should've been what he thought was a Percocet. Sure. it, it, it's just so hard to accept that that happens in our world, and it has happened all the time. Yeah. that you're on his name and efforts to make people happy. Happy, right? That's what he wanted to do. That's it. Ever since he was a baby and, and that's, that's how he got his nickname, 'cause he was always smiling. And people used to walk by us when we were walking him in the street and say, "He's so happy. What's his name?" And, you know, Bradi would say, "Jack." And, "Oh, he's Happy Jack." So this was like an easy transition to when he found a name for his company, and he's like, in his mind, he's like, "I got it." I'm like, "You've always had it." Like, it was always that. You just-- it had to come to you, you know, through whatever osmosis or virally or however it came to you. But yeah, he, And, he's paying attention. and Jack was right. We need, need more happiness in this world, so That's it. him with all of us. Uh, yeah, no, it's, it's my pleasure, and keep doing everything that you're doing. Uh, and anything you ever need from us, from Happy Jack in general, from me, you can always just call. For more information about Happy Jack, check out the show notes. We've included a link to the organization's website. You'll also find a link to our Emily's Hope website, where you can listen to hundreds of other Grieving Out Loud episodes, read my blog, and stay up-to-date on the latest news surrounding addiction and the fentanyl epidemic. Thanks again for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. I hope you found it helpful. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wandenberg King and Kayli Fitz