Over the past two decades, suicide rates have continued to rise across the United States. And even when friends and family recognize the warning signs and try to get their loved ones help, sometimes the outcome is still heartbreaking. That is the case for today's guest on grieving Out Loud. Larissa Strong's daughter had been receiving care at an inpatient mental health facility after a suicide attempt. Everybody's like, don't let her go. She knows the game. She knows what to say. She needs help. She's gonna complete, we know that she needs to stay there. They were warned. Still, Larissa says the facility allowed her daughter Haley to leave and within 48 hours, Haley was able to buy a gun from a gun shop and take her own life. She sent me a text message saying, I just called to tell the kids I love them. Please tell them for me. Uh, she called me that night and um, an hour and she didn't tell me anything about her plan. And an hour later, um, she shot herself. Now, Larissa is advocating for stricter gun regulations for people struggling with their mental health, all in her daughter's name. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, she shares her mission and the changes she hopes to see. Why would you want somebody who was put on a mental health hold to be able to get out and go purchase a firearm and ammunition? That doesn't make sense why somebody would let that. And I'm like, yeah, I know. Today on grieving Out Loud, we're joined by Larissa Strong, a mother whose world was shattered by the loss of her daughter, Hailey. Just days before Hailey died by suicide, she had been placed on an involuntary mental health hold. Within 48 hours of being released, she was able to purchase a firearm. Larissa soon realized the system that was meant to protect her daughter never truly engaged. In her grief, Larissa chose action fighting to change mental health laws, so fewer families are left asking these same unbearable questions. is a conversation about love loss and a mother's determination to save lives in her daughter's name. Larissa, that's something I know a lot about every day. I'm working in my daughter Emily's name, and I just really appreciate you, the work that you're doing in your daughter Hailey's I appreciate what you're doing and, and Emily's name as well. I have been introduced to your work and your, uh, podcast from, uh, multiple other people that I work with in legislation as well, and they had told me I should actually reach out to you. So that's, uh, nice that you guys had, you know, reached back out to me. So thank you. Yeah. Well, thank you all. It's very tragic and also compelling story the call for change. to make a lot of sense. So let's start though before we get to what, how you're trying to change things and change the system, which is really hard to do. Let's start by talking about Hailey. Um, well, Hailey was a vivacious girl with an incredible heart. If you ever had the privilege to meet her, then um, you would actually just see how big of a smile she had. How much of, um, ferocity of to life that she had. She was just, she was an ama amazing girl. She would, um, give her. Literally, I could give her clothes off of her back to somebody if they needed it. She was always there to help, always there to listen, always there to just make somebody feel good about themselves. And, um, yeah, she was just, she was just an amazing person with a, an incredible smile and the most beautiful eyes that I've ever seen in my life. Let's talk about Hailey's struggles for a moment because it is not unusual for young people to have mental health struggles today. We know so many parents are dealing with this. Can you talk about when the issues first started and how they presented Sure. Um, I I actually had noticed that there was something a little bit different about her when she was about three or four years old, to be honest, which seems, yeah. Which seems a little. Early, but, um, I, I was married to her father who had a son, and then we had a son together and then we had Hailey. So I had had had about seven years of experience with mothering up until then. And that by the time that she was, um, three years old, I just started noticing that there was just something a little different, like the way that she was even. For lack of better terms, metabolizing stresses and her reactions to things. And it was that, I mean, she would cry so much and so hard. It would be hours of crying. You know, when you have a baby and they cry for like three hours at a time, or like, oh, I gotta take him to the er. But like she wasn't a baby and she would just cry if she would get in any kind of trouble. It didn't matter if it was big or little, but she would break blood vessels under her eyes from crying. So hard. And, um, it was just, that was really the best way to explain it is I could see there was something in her capability of controlling her emotions. And, um, it was, I mean, honestly and when she was about seven years old, I honestly had felt that, it's hard to say it, but I was nervous and. I felt that I had to be on suicide watch with her even at seven years old, which is seven years old, so she just, she just had these really big, strong emotions. She would react really emotionally to things. Did you start seeking outside help then at like age yep. I actually, even earlier than that, I would, uh, take her over to her doctor. I would tell 'em like, Hey, there's something a little different. And, um, they would just say things like, um, you know, ignore the behavior, or she's just a, you know, just a difficult period, difficult child. Give her more love. Um, again. Don't even pay attention to it. You know, there's just like all of these excuses or different ways to handle it, but it, nobody, I felt like they really paid attention to me. It was almost like the doctor mom sort of thing. Like, oh yeah, you don't really know. And so it wasn't until she was, I believe, 15 or 16 years old when I finally had gotten her diagnosed, um, with borderline personality disorder. And the only reason why they finally had listened to me at that point is because she started cutting. Oh, and that's not unusual for you. I think when, when we were growing up, it was very unusual. I remember one girl in my high school was cutting and people were like, what is that? Right? And now it's very common among especially young women, explain what borderline personality disorder is for people that aren't familiar. Um, so I guess for the, the best way to explain it as I have been able to see it is borderline personality. Um, it's hard for like a, a true grasp of reality. And so the way. I explain it to people is that like when you're looking out a window and it has like a sheer curtain over it, you can still see what's beyond that curtain, but it's like distorted. So the, the reality is not exactly reality of what's being placed in front of the person. And so like, um, it, it, yeah. It makes it a sensitive oversensitivity for people where they, they cannot process things the way that maybe you or I could, who is not diagnosed with a borderline personality disorder. And then they can come up with different side things like depression or anxiety. Um, there's, there's all kinds of different. Um, like veins out from there, that can happen just even simply because they're not able to understand things that are right there. It's the, the comprehension of things that are happening. That's, I guess, the way I've been able to like, kind of pull it down to where people who aren't dealing with this can understand it best. Right. It is hard to understand, but it presented itself then as cutting Any other behaviors or what else was going on with Hailey as a teenager? She would, I mean, it was very interesting because she really did have like the biggest heart ever, and so it was, to me it seemed that the. The things that she couldn't control in her own mind and the things that she couldn't control in her own, um, emotions she tried helping other people with. So, I mean, she, she brought in a girl into my house saying that this girl had been kicked out of her home and needed a place to stay and, you know, we needed to help her and we couldn't just, you know, put her out or anything like that. Well, it ended up being that this girl was like a 19-year-old woman who, um, was. Just needing a house. So it was like my daughter was like overly compassionate for different people where she couldn't feel that herself. Like if I could tell her I love her all day, I could hold her, I could hug her, I could go give her anything all the time, any time of day, any at any point. But she still could not. Feel love unless it was heightened. So, um, for her, I think then she tried showing her love to other people that she couldn't feel, and then it ended up, uh, transpiring into getting into these very hostile relationships. So, which to me then makes sense because if she couldn't feel like a normal love, it had to be that high scale of something that it needed to be. Like almost a, a ferocious, um, uh, almost even abusive side of a relationship, toxic side, if you will, to, for her to feel it. That's really interesting. I see some similarities between Hailey and Emily in the fact that Emily had, was very sensitive, had big emotions, uh, started cutting as a Hmm. which really alarmed me and I tried to How do you understand cutting and were you able to treat Hailey's cutting? I don't know what you had gone through yourself, but um. When I, when she started cutting, finally, um, the reason why she had cut was because I had told her to, um, that I needed her to put away the dishes from the dishwasher. And I told her to make sure that she was, um, just emptying out or making, not emptying out that she was drying out the dishes and like our Tupperware, because we were living in Florida at the time. And if you know anything about Florida, if they're. Cool dark damp place, you're gonna get something called palmetto bugs, which is a pretty word for having cockroaches. And they're like about this big and they're disgusting. And so I had said, Hailey, I need you to put away the dishes so mama can do the dishes from dinner. I cleaned up everything and I was like, just make sure you're drying 'em out because we don't wanna get the, the palmetto bugs. And so she's like, okay, well in like liquidity split it was done. So I went to go and, um. Put the dishes in the dishwasher and I was like, Hmm. I went into my, my Tupperware cupboard and I picked up one of the plastic bowls, dumped it out, and water comes out and I was like, Hailey, come downstairs. Now I want you to put the dishes in the dishwasher and I want you to dry those out. So just typical Parenting type great. And, and she would And that was the first time is that she went upstairs and um, when she came back downstairs, she had been cutting her wrist and it was because of that. So when I went to the doctor and I was like, something is seriously wrong. Somebody needs to actually pay attention to me now. I'm not just overreacting, I'm not just a helicopter mom. There's something wrong. So then, um, got her in there and, um, they said, oh yeah, classic borderline personality disorder. She's gonna go to therapy, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, what, what happens if she does that again? Oh, they probably will. But really all that it is, is if they're cutting, they're not trying to hurt themselves. They're not trying to kill themselves. Um, what they're trying to do is they're trying to feel something. And I said, but what happens if she cuts too deep? Oh, just bring her into the hospital. We'll stitch her up. I was like, really? That's pretty nonchalant about what I perceive as a serious issue, and when Emily was doing this. I really thought it was about stress relief and compulsion. it was, and but I was very nervous about it, you know, and of course, of course. I was too. he And, um, I, I can see how these personalities, and I think maybe Hailey and Emily had some mm-hmm. Probably not exactly the Right. But some similarities and how it can lead to so much. I don't know. Trouble and chaos and, and you're, you're trying everything to help your child and you're not getting anywhere. At least that's how I Well, the first part was, is when Hailey would go into the hospital to get her stitches, which which was multiple times, she got stitches for Yeah. Oh, see, Emily never was that severe. It was just, you a She had like. I yeah. it was like three times that she went in and had to have seven stitches in her wrist. And they still never kept her. Never. And so do you feel that the system began failing you when she was a teenager then, or even think they started feeling her when she was very, very young. Very young. They, it was, um, I mean, I, I don't. I don't know what doctors go through with having maybe helicopter moms or just being overly protective or whatever. It's, but they need to pay attention when there is genuine concern. I mean, she was failed a long, long, long time ago. A long time ago, and it just culminated to the, the final time that she was admitted and released. Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices are age appropriate lessons, starting kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emily's hope edu.org to learn more and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. Despite Larissa's efforts, she says Her daughter Haley's teenage years were extremely difficult as she struggled with mental health challenges on top of the typical emotions that go along with being a teenage girl. She was going to the typical rebellious thing of like, oh, I don't need to have my mommy telling me what to do, and I just wanna graduate from high school so I can go to college.'cause I wanna be on my own. I don't wanna, you know, pay attention to the rules of the house. You know, it's just typical, you know, we've all been there. Um. And then, so she actually did graduate early. She graduated a year early. Uh, she was very smart. Um, and, um, my, uh, my husband and I, we were leaving Florida and we were moving for his job and she was gonna stay in Florida, but she didn't have a car and she wanted to go to Orlando and me from South Dakota. I was like. You don't have to even search for trouble. It'll find you in Orlando. Like n no. I wanna, let's talk about going to South Dakota. It's a small place. Go over there. So she did, she, um, we got her into school there. Um, and then after the summer session and her first year, she decided that she really couldn't concentrate at school. She didn't. She wants to take some time off. Okay, fine. So she ended up taking some time off and she ended up, you know, finding some difficulties in love and in life and in jobs. And then finally she decided that she was going to, um, go to school. She had said that she was really considering it, asked me what I thought she should do, and told her actually go to STI and take a personality test if she wasn't entirely sure what she wanted to do. And they could tell different jobs. That, you know, she may not have even considered. And she had called me and said, mom, it says that I should do accounting. I, I, I couldn't believe it. And I was like, you've always been great at math. And so she enrolled over at STI and was going to school for accounting. And then, uh, she, you know, again, she was going through her rollercoaster of emotions. She had, you know, the last year of her life she had been put in for four times into behavioral health."' Haley's first inpatient after her first attempt to take her own life. Larissa says, doctors estimated her daughter had taken between 80 and 100 pills despite the severity of the attempt. Larissa says the facility flushed the drugs from Haley's system and then discharged her. On an involuntary hold. Um, not committed hold. They do like this, um, questionnaire and it is to decide what your, um, determine your risk level of completing suicide is. And on there, 'cause I got all of her medical records, which is about, I don't know, like six reams high of papers. And, um, in there from that first day, she was rated the highest level of risk and they still let her go. Um, and do you have any answers as to why that no idea. Before her death at age 21, Haley was admitted to behavioral health four separate times each day coming after a major warning sign that she was struggling. The first one was a suicide attempt. Uh, the next, uh, two were suicide threat. Then the last one, um, she had cut, she, uh, threatened that she was going to get a gun. Then she had also locked herself in her, in her garage and had run her Jeep in her garage, attempting to asphyxiate herself. Um, her, uh, boyfriend had gotten her out of her car, got her into the house, um, and he, she ran away from him, grabbed she had destroyed everything in her house. She took pictures off the wall, shattered them, picked up a shard of the glass, and started slicing her wrist. So. Attempted suicide and cutting and threat of suicide.'cause she said she would get a gun. So the police department brought her in this time and, uh, that was around, I believe it was six 30 that night on February 18th she was put in and she was let go on the 19th. Um, uh, but by 11 o'clock the next morning. So again, she was put in at about six 30 or seven that night. And by 11 o'clock the next morning, um, Hailey's father had called me and said that they were already planning on letting her go by three or four o'clock that afternoon. So they had determined well under 24 hours that they were gonna already let it go. Why wasn't she kept longer, do you think? Well, um, I have a few theories. Um, number one in the medical records, it had, uh, showed that she was asked about her insurance and, um, she had previ, she had said that she previously had Medicaid, but um, she, uh, had a new job, so she wasn't aware she even had insurance. So there's one theory. Um, then the next. very sad if that's the case. I mean, just that shouldn't No it shouldn't. Shouldn't be based on, it's when someone really needs help, like clearly Well, clearly It shouldn't be based. when somebody is let go, and this is why that theory to me holds some merits, um, is that in the discharge after somebody is let go off of an involuntary hold, it's usually within 24 to 48 hours they do a follow-up check. Um, so Hailey was let go on that Monday. Then Wednesday she had, um, basically done these suicide attempts because she survived another two days after that. But they put in the medical records that they, because Hailey didn't know if she had insurance, they're just gonna go ahead and put it out to Friday that they were gonna call. So as I'm sitting there in the ICU room with my daughter, after she had been declared brain dead, they called. Behavioral health called and um, they're like, we're just calling to do a follow up on Hailey. And I said, um, she's laying in a hospital bed, brain dead over at uh, Sanford Hospital. Please never call here again because you guys let her go while Larissa doesn't know exactly why her daughter wasn't kept at the behavioral health facility, she says all of her daughter's loved ones knew that she shouldn't have been released and they feared for her safety. I did call them and even her roommate had been called to ask like, you know, do you think that she's okay? Can we let her go? And everybody's like, don't let her go. She knows the game. She knows what to say. She needs help. She's gonna complete, we know that she needs to stay there. They were warned. Were warned and they still let her go. So, um, I don't, it could be, you know, the insurance, it could be that she knows exactly what to say. It could be that they don't have enough doctors. It could be that they don't have enough room. I don't know. But there's a lot of different things that go in there. But one of those are just some of the theories that come about. And also not enough doctors who know what they're talking about, because that particular doctor who let her go was not an expert in that field. He was an advanced, like elderly mental disorders, like dementia, things like that. Not with younger difficulties, like borderline personality disorder and things like that. After being released from the facility, Larissa says Hailey returned home with her roommate over the next couple of days. She spent time with friends, but Larissa says things took a turn for the worse when Hailey tried to return to work. Wednesday she got up, decided she was gonna go to work. Uh, she was still exhibiting manic behavior and she had already been gone for two days from work and her. Job, the one who she was excited about because it was her first accounting job. Uh, they pulled her aside and said that they didn't feel like she was the right fit because of her manic behavior. So she was fired right away in the morning on that Wednesday morning, February 21st. Um, and she immediately left there and went over to, um, the local gun store, bought a gun, ammunition, went home and started writing suicide notes, goodbye letters. Um, called me. I missed her first call. She sent me a text message saying, I just called to tell the kids I love them. Please tell them for me. Uh, she called me that night and um, an hour and she didn't tell me anything about her plan. And an hour later, um, she shot herself. After Haley's death, grieving loved ones, including Larissa, wanted to make sure other people at very high risk of suicide cannot purchase guns. They started a petition calling for what they named Haley's legacy Bill. If you are committed, they have to report you. But the problem with that is it doesn't touch on the involuntary holds, but that's huge. So Hailey was on an involuntary hold. She was Correct. and that's why her name wouldn't have been reported to this national database that could have stopped her from Correct. The biggest thing that I think that people, um, need to understand about this involuntary whole thing is that, um, a lot of people go up in arms. I mean, number one, I'm, I'm a Republican myself. I believe that you should have the right to bear arms, have your second amendment, all of this. But it's not about taking away rights for somebody. It's giving people the chance to live when they're in their darkest spots of their mental illness. Um, people who are act less than 3% of the population will ever be held on an involuntary hold basis. So, uh, what I'm trying to do with this change is not going to affect more than 95, 90 7%. Of the population, but these people who are put in on our loved ones, who are put in on these involuntary holds, when they're released, they are 300 times more likely to complete suicide in the weeks after they're released. And less than 30% of them ever on a hold are ever even committed. So there's a. Big gap in the, in the, the time where it is their darkest time, where they are in this like complete hole where you can't see out of it and they're not getting the proper help. And I get it, I people say, well, it's not about the guns. Like, well, I, I understand what you're saying, but there needs to be a whole healthcare reformation that happens that is in regards to mental illness, treatment, and even acknowledgement for that matter. I don't see anybody who would step out and say, oh, somebody who has severe mental illness who was just hospitalized for a suicide attempt should be able to turn around and go buy a gun. Who is gonna agree with that statement. I don't know. Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story on our new Emily's Hope memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, and friends. So much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on more than just a number.org. still. Larissa has struggled to change the law in South Dakota where her daughter died. Haley's legacy Bill was introduced this year as house bill 1114. If passed, it would have temporarily prevented people like Haley, who had been placed on an involuntary hold from purchasing guns. The bill failed to make it out of committee where Larissa testified in support of the proposed legislation. Here's a portion of her testimony. And on her final admission, Hailey explicitly said that she would get a gun. She was still released. Within 48 hours, she walked into a local gun store, legally purchased a firearm, and ammunition, called me and without telling me her plan, talked to me, and an hour later, she shot herself in the head. Hailey did not die instantly. She lived two days in the ICU. She reacted to pain. She triggered the ventilator trying to breathe on her own. I held her hand and felt her fingers squeeze mine. On Friday, February 23rd, 2024 at 11:51 AM, my daughter was pronounced dead after I watched the brain death testing, her head wrapped in gauze after the gunshot wound. Hailey should be turning 24 next month. Instead, she is in an urn in my home and in this necklace that I wear around my neck every day. Why? Because the law failed to protect her. Hailey was never committed, despite repeated suicide attempts and documented risk. That is not unusual. Less than 30% of individuals placed on involuntary suicide holds are ever formally committed. That leaves over 70% released without adequate protection, despite being shown to be up to 300 times more likely to die by suicide in the weeks following discharge. That gap is where my daughter died. This house Bill 1114, Hailey's legacy is not a gun bill. It is a suicide prevention bill. It does not create a new federal standard. It is bipartisan. It does not confiscate firearms. It is not a red flag law. It is not permanent. It simply ensures that when someone is placed on an involuntary mental health hold, that the information is temporarily reported to NICS, preventing firearm purchases during the most dangerous window of their lives. If you'd like to hear Larissa's full testimony, we've included a link in the show notes. While you're there, we'd appreciate it if you'd rate and review this podcast and share it with your loved ones who may find it helpful. While Haley's legacy Bill wasn't approved this year, Larissa says she's not giving up and is optimistic that similar legislation will be enacted in the future. I mean, honestly, I had so many members up there. Almost unable to speak because they were so moved by her story. Um, most of it was taken out. It was not passed this year. However, they, I had one, one of the members, um, he came over to me. He came down from the half circle that was there. He came down over to me and knelt down in front of me, took my hand, and was al again, Al, almost unable to speak, and said, I am so sorry. Thank you so much for your strength in bringing this in front of us because it is definitely needed. We need to have some changes going on, and we will get something done. So while it wasn't past this year, it's, it's a marathon that we're running and something will happen. Why wasn't it passed? Do you know? Because, well, I mean, ironically, although the NRA, um, I mean they're not the only reason. But ironically, even though the NRA has supported this, um, current mental health bill that, um, is federally, they got up and said that they didn't support it, said that it really didn't have anything to do with that. And I'm like, I don't understand how you can actually. Get up there and say that you don't support this when it's not even changing any kind of, uh, new laws. All it's doing is it's making it more comprehensive and filling in the gaps. And that's the gap where my daughter died. And, um, but a lot of people, they said, we're not saying no completely. We're saying that we wanna have more information and more groups come through. And the overall factor in it was that. They all wanted to see change. Um, one of them said that he took a deep dive into this more than he ever thought he would found out more than he ever dreamed that he would wanna know, and there really was a call for change. Um, but he said that while he said he didn't think that we were as inclusive as we needed to be. And so getting the different groups of people together so that we could make this stand as strong as possible on its own, that was the main thing that we needed to do. So you need more consensus. You need to somehow get the NRA on your No, right? I don't think it's the NRA that we really need to get on our side. I think that what it is is also changing the, like doing the healthcare reformation and making sure that there is, um, something passed that there is a, um, mandatory holding period at all.'cause there's not, um, making it 72 hours. I think that we're, uh, South Dakota is one of the only states that doesn't have a mandatory holding period. Um, and, you know, trying to actually take it more seriously and treat it as a mental health crisis versus like a pause. So a, a combination of things. So you'd like to see a longer mandatory Yes, If it's an involuntary hold, you'd like to see that, last a little longer so that person actually is maybe evaluated better and maybe gets correct. And that you'd like to see, that. You'd still like to see though a hold on. Someone being able to buy a Absolutely, absolutely. I have not talked to very many people. I would say anybody I speak with, at least 99%, if not more. I may have had one or two people who have gotten a little lippy about some things, but otherwise, most people. Say the same thing you did. I don't understand what they, they'll say, I don't understand why this wouldn't pass. It only makes perfect sense. Why would you want somebody who was put on a mental health hold to be able to get out and go purchase a firearm and ammunition? That doesn't make sense why somebody would let that. And I'm like, yeah, I know. And this could have saved my daughter. And it's just. I've said it before and I'll say it again, and I, you know, I love the name of your podcast Grieving Out Loud because I keep saying I will not be silenced. I will be as loud as I possibly can and I will make sure everybody hears me. But it's that if my daughter's situation was that she went to a mall, a daycare, a school, an airport, a bar, a restaurant, and she would've taken the lives of other people because maybe she was. Heartbroken or jealous that they had a normal life that she really wanted and they, she couldn't feel the same way, or she felt that she couldn't feel the same way as other people and she took all of them and then herself, this would be a totally different conversation that we're having, but because it was my daughter one and done, it's easy for people to just kind of push it aside, brush it under the rug, like, oh, that's really sad. I'm so sorry. And then next. And turn their head and not pay attention to it. But it keeps happening. And 80% of all of this just came out in the last year just when I had my, my daughter's, um, uh, memorial. In October, 80% of all of the firearm deaths in South Dakota, 80% were from suicide. Yeah, and I think that's the number that stays consistent year after year. And, and, and there are things that we can do and steps we can take to at least try to reduce that number. What that's what you're talking about. So were you, are you very disappointed that it sounds like you got some compassion from lawmakers, but you didn't get what you wanted? So are you disappointed or are you encouraged that you can go back and continue? Fight for change. It's just gonna take longer. Like you really can't do anything until next year. Right? I am disappointed, but I am encouraged that everybody thanked me for being there to bring this about and show that there are not only gaps in the law, but there are gaps in the mental health. Scenario, um, of taking things seriously and having a reformation done. So I, I, I am disappointed. Um, I wasn't surprised because, you know, we've been kind of talking about this for two years, uh, between, um, the different proponents that I do have for this law. Um. That it probably would not pass that first year. So again, not surprised, disappointed, but encouraged all at the same time. Um, I will be going back to South Dakota at the end of this month to beginning of next month. And, um, I have some, uh, different parties that have asked to speak with me, um, that are in, um, like. Senate and legislation and you know, they, they want to actually hear my story and have like more of a one-on-one. And, um, I'm, I'm very encouraged by that, that it wasn't just shut down and I wasn't like, you know, dismissed, uh, completely. So that, that is very encouraging and I will, I will definitely keep on making sure that Hailey's voice is heard. in addition to advocating for changes in the law, Larissa is using social media to raise awareness about mental health, sharing personal reflections and letters to her late daughter. Really letters to her, but meant for people to read. Uh, one of the things that maybe you also experienced, I don't know, uh, but my, my daughter specifically taking her life, I felt, um, alone and I felt almost outcasted. I think anybody who loses a child in a stigmatized death, and when Mm-hmm. I mean suicide overdose or fentanyl poisoning. There's a lot of Yeah. that goes around both of those things, whether it's accidental or intentional. It's the drug use, it's the intentionality of it. There's so much right. Right. So I, I had done that and I wanted, I really, I like to write, and that's my outlet, uh, for a lot of things. And so, um, I have been, uh, compiling different letters, uh, that I had done. Um, different letters from her friends, her family, um, actually even others survivors that, um, had, that are surviving the suicide of loved one and compiling that into a book. And, um, I'll be, uh, releasing that in, it's. Really, um, gonna be, um, a book for, to people who have recently lost their child to suicide specifically, um, so that they can see that they aren't alone.'cause there's, you know, there are different things that people can be on. There are different grief groups that I've been a part of on, on Facebook, things like that. Um, and then also I am, I'm actually gonna be doing my own, um, like podcast, which was, is just basic basically of, of. Platform for other people to be able to share their stories and get their voices out and let, um, you know, about bullying and, um, depression and anxiety and borderline and bipolar and all these things. And, um, even get, you know, different people out there so that they can also show that this is not something that is. It, it, it's unfortunately not uncommon and I want people to know that, that you can't just push this aside. The, the numbers are growing and I, and I want that silence to stop. Well, good luck with the book. Uh, you'll have to come back on the podcast when that comes Thank you. so that we can let people know. And I just really appreciate you sharing Hailey with us and all the work you are doing to fight for other families and to help other families who've been in the same situation as you. I think we're like-minded in that Very much so. I really do appreciate you and all of the work that you've done. I've, I've listened to some of your podcasts. I think it was wonderful. I read your story about, about Emily or Emily's story and your aftermath and it's, it is really very heartbreaking and. You know, my heart goes out to you and all of us grieving parents and the losses of our, our angels. But, um, it's, it's wonderful to see another mother who is turning pain into purpose. And so I, I stand with you on that one. So thank you so much. And don't give up. Keep fighting. Keep fighting in Hailey's name, and I'm sure you'll get some change even if it takes longer than we all want. We're not going anywhere. It's I'm the squeaky wheel. I'm loud and proud, and I'm not gonna go anywhere other than to the top. And make sure that our, our children's voices are heard even beyond heaven. All right. Well, thank you so much for Thank you. and thank you for taking the time to learn more about this important topic. I want to stress that if you or someone you love is grappling with suicidal thoughts, help is available, please dial 9, 8, 8. Remember, you're not alone. You can also find links to other grieving out loud episodes we think you may find helpful in the show notes. We also release a new episode every week. Until then, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wallenberg, king and Kaylee Fitz.