Everyone has a purpose in life, but when a child dies young, it can feel as though that purpose was cut short, even stolen. We're left asking questions we don't have easy answers for. What was their life meant to be? What was it worth? How did they leave their mark on the world? he said, My son wrote left behind 18 symphonies. What am I gonna do with that? Yeah. will ever hear my son's music. Andrea Magner lost her artistic son suddenly to an opioid overdose. From music to poems and a novel, Ethan loved using his creative abilities, You think when you discover all this work, um, was it all for nothing? Right. but Andrea is working to change that. She's created an online gallery that highlights the artwork of artists from around the world who have died, allowing their legacy to continue. And there's also the case where there are artists who been discovered after they pass away, Right, know, so you never know. Well. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, Andrea shares her difficult story of loving her son through his struggle with addiction, finding a way to keep going through overwhelming grief and the way she's now helping others facing loss. Today's guest is someone who lives at the intersection of creativity, grief, and purpose. Andrea Magnar is a writer, filmmaker, non-profit, founder, and grief coach. But her story begins as a mother who lost her son, Ethan. After he died, she discovered his unpublished lyrics, essays, and the beginning of a novel. Talking with other families, she realized how often loved ones leave behind creative work and how painful it is to wonder if it will ever be seen. That question led her to create the Artist Lives Gallery, which honors artists who have passed away without being widely recognized, making sure their voices don't disappear. I wanna tell you, this is deeply personal for me because Emily is featured in Andrea's Gallery. art lives there, and that means more to me than I can really put into words. Andrea also spent years in film and theater building programs for emerging filmmakers producing independent films and earning major recognition for her writing. And today she is back in the nonprofit world. She's also a certified grief coach specializing in supporting people who've lost loved ones to addiction. story is about love loss. And creativity and keeping someone's spirit alive through the work that they left behind. Andrea, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm Yeah. delighted to have you, and thank you so much for featuring Emily's artwork on your website. I really appreciate it. Oh yeah. No, of course. Her artwork's incredible. So we wanna go. You know, but I'm biased'cause I'm her mom. Right? And I, and I always thought she had so much talent and I often say that if she would've lived,'cause she died so young at I know. I, I wonder what kind of, how her art would've evolved and you, how much better she would have become and, and what she could've left in the world and left her mark in the world in terms of art. Right, right, right. Well, this way, you know, it doesn't disappear. So that's the purpose of, you know, why we showcase the work. Because usually what happens is it gets boxed up or, you know, forgotten. Forgotten over time. Right. It's So, me that we keep Emily's artwork out there. Uh, we use it so often on our charity. Um, we have a virtual gallery on our website that someone can go on and see right. We use it in our fundraising events. We have an art show on auction where all of her. Almost all of her artwork is displayed. Uh, she left me with 29 paintings and Oh wow. and pieces of pottery. I'm really lucky that way. There are some things that are lost and some things that were destroyed before her death that I don't have. But even her art teacher had fished, her high school art teacher, had fished a couple of her paintings outta the trash and gave them to me Oh my God. after her death. That's crazy. Wow, that's that's great though that you were able to get that. Yes. Yeah. it's, I think it's just so important, um, that we preserve whatever creative work our loved ones left behind, and that really is your whole mission. But let's talk about Ethan. First. Tell me about Ethan. Uh, Ethan was, um, you know, he struggled with addiction on and off for, for years, and, um, he was very creative. He wanted to be a writer. He, you know, I didn't even realize. How, how much he actually had written until after he passed and I discovered all these journals and he had written a screenplay. And um, you know, just like a lot of poetry, music lyrics. And about a month before he start, he passed away. He started writing a novel about his life. He wanted to, you know, help people so they wouldn't go down the same road. He went down and I, at the time when he told me he was writing that I, I felt that, you know, maybe that would give him an incentive. You, you know, to ke to keep going. You know, having a creative outlet I felt was so important. And you know, of course now I know a lot more about a addiction than I knew back then. Yeah, don't um, yeah. Right. Ethan's struggle with substance use disorder started early, and that can make everything more difficult. Research shows that when teens begin using drugs and alcohol, it can change the brain while it's still developing. Especially the parts tied to reward and decision making. That early exposure can also significantly increase the risk of long-term addiction. It started with, um, when he was in middle school, Hmm. um, in a over the counter antihistamine he found in my cabinet. He called me from school, come pick me up. And, um. That's how, you know, that's how it began. And it, he, you know, he just experimented. He was always, you know, he was always very creative in writing and he was like very interested in what was going on in the world and politics. And , He did, there was a period where he started doing standup comedy and, um, yeah, and a, a short period where he thought maybe he'd be a comic or he'd be an actor or, you know, he, he needed. He needed the atten. He liked the attention, you know, from the, from the time he was born. You know, he was just that kind of a, just that kind of a kid. And, um, you know, and he had such a good, he had such a good heart and he cared, you know, so deeply about people. And, um, you know, he, uh, towards right before. About two years before he, he passed away. Um, you know, I thought, you know, it's hard to know when they're using, if they're not using, when they stop, you know? And, um, he decided to enlist in the Israeli army. Oh. Yeah. And he moved to Israel. And joined the IDF and, um, you know, he doesn't come from like a religious background or anything, but, um, I think it, he felt like because he struggled for so many years with addiction that he, you know, and he hadn't gone to college because. Of his addiction issues that it gave him something to say when people said, what are you doing? You know, it gave him, he didn't feel like he was, you know, a nobody, which is how I think he, you know, he felt about himself because of his struggles. He was just searching. for something, Oh yeah, he something to him and thought this would maybe do it, right. Right. That's, that's exactly, that's exactly it. And he was more of a, you know, a creative person and I worried, you know, I couldn't see him, you know, in, in the Army. Right that didn't, yeah, your description, like writer and co, you know, a comic, you know, that kind of thing. It didn't really fit with that. Yeah. No, it, it, it really, it didn't at all. And um, he was doing okay for a while and then he decided to, you know, and I guess he was using at the time. Which I realized after when I found his journals. But I thought, you know, for year, I thought during that period he was wasn't, and um, he decided to, um, enlist in combat training. And that's, that is not, that was not something for him. And I told him, but he did it anyway and he just couldn't handle it. And he just, you know, spiraled downward from there. And you. so hard about all this, Andrea, is that. I, I, I know the struggles that you went through. I went through them myself. And even though some scenarios may be different for you and for me and for with our children, it, it's still that dark cloud hanging over your head and years of worrying about them and trying to figure out how to help them. And, um, and then when you lose them, it feels like, what was all that for? Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly it. Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story on our new Emily's Hope memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, and friends. So much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on more than just a number.org. Andrea says her son went through several different rehab programs, but nothing seemed to work. Sometimes Ethan would leave early, other times he would relapse while in treatment. She especially became concerned when he was in Israel far from home, and the support system she hoped would help keep him safe., And, you know, he was, you know, asking me for notes and we were, I mean, we spoke every single, every day. I was, we were very close and I always woke up to a phone call, you know, he was six, seven hours ahead and. You know, I, he called me every morning and we would, we would talk and, you know, towards the end he was really, you know, he was not doing well at all. He came back home in April and was with me for a month. And, you know, confessed that he had started using and he de detoxed in my apartment before he went back. And I, you know, thought he was, I thought he was okay when the night he left I the day before because he had detoxed. And then the night he was leaving, I could clearly see that he, you know. Had taken something and um, you know, of course it's gone through my head. Why did I let him, why did I let him get back on, get, get on that plane? And, it could ha it could happen anyway to go back to Y Israel. So he got on a plane and go back, right? Because he had gotten a month off to come home. I see. Um, and um, I'm divorced and my ex and I were, you know, trying to get him discharged from the army so we could get him into a treatment program and they wouldn't discharge him, and he was clearly. Suffering. And you could see, you know, his, his he was using or his mental health was not. Well. And my ex, I think, um, by June, July had gone, made about three trips to Israel within a period of six weeks. Um, because we were. Desperate in trying to get him into some kind of treatment and discharged and, um, he ended up passing in my ex-husband's hotel room In Israel. In Israel. In Israel. Yep. my goodness. And so then you had to get him back home Yep, yep. And that, that took, that took, uh, that took, uh, about close to a week. I Yeah. So. Just to add a complication, um, to something so traumatic. And, Yeah. and, and you, you did mention earlier, it took you about a year so, you know, to get his work out there and to start really thinking about, or to look at it even right. To kinda go through it Mm-hmm. tell me about what you went through during that time. Well, I mean, I think for any of us, when we lose a child, you know, uh, we're, I mean, we're in shock. Right. know, you walk, you're just like, you're existing, like you're not, Right. you don't know what to do with yourself. You don't know, like It's like you just you just wanna cry. brain. Right? Yeah. like get outta your own skin. It's, it's, it's hard to describe to people It. through it. That's right, that's right. And it's, you know, my mom passed away five months after my son, so, and so you my mom, grief. my mom and I were very, very close. And I think my, you, you know, my son's death just, you know, she just went down that. Too And it was, it was, it was too much. Right. But it took me, and as close as I was to my mom, I mean, we literally spoke like probably four times a day. Hmm. I'd call her with any little thing. And, um, it took me, I think about two years before I could actually grieve for my mom because the grief was so intense after losing, after losing Ethan. Today, Andrea finds comfort in looking at Ethan's work and sharing it with others. But in the months after his death, her grief was so raw she couldn't bring herself to read the words he had written. The writing is, it's, it's gripping and, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's sad, like you said, like what could have been, you know? Right. I always, always think that what, what artwork could she have created, Right. she lived, what could Ethan have written? And I always say. That. When I talk to groups of people and I show a screen full of faces of young people we've lost to overdose or fentanyl Right. I always say the lost potential to the world. What art could have been created, what books could have been written, what entrepreneurs could have started. Businesses. Oh yeah. Music we will never know because we've lost way too many young people, including my Emily and your Ethan Right. horrible epidemic. And Ethan died from an opioid overdose. Correct, correct. You know, so many artists have been lost to addiction or to suicide. Right. know, they're just you are a creative, I right. creative. I write too, uh, but I think I'm a, my brain is a little more balanced. What do you think of the, what, what do you think it is with the creative brain? Because my daughter was very, um, what do I wanna say? Uh, she was just. Extreme about things, right? So, so she would be, she would just be so enthusiastic and over the top and dive headfirst into one thing after the other, whether that be, you know, her gymnastics or tie ding or painting or whatever it might be. And I just always thought her brain was wired a little differently. Yeah, no, creative brains are definitely, are wired differently and I think especially with a lot of young people, they, you know, creative creatively, they just feel like they don't fit in anywhere and they're sometimes many of them are just, you know, kind of lost and. I think, you know, that's what leads them often to start experimenting, you know, with drugs, just finding something, you know, even to calm their, calm their brain down a little bit or you know, they're kind of, um, you know, all over the place. And I think in some cases creative people might think that drugs expand their creativity, right? Yeah. Right. I That's true. that, uh, I also think of famous creative people have produced things that you know are legendary. You think of musicians or painters and so many of them struggled from mental health and or substance use disorder. you know, what used to probably be alcohol a lot of the time. But, Right. you know, you think of musicians and just it, it seems to be a really common thread. Yeah. No, it definitely, it definitely is, you know? While substance use disorder is extremely common, stigma often prevents people from talking about it. After her son died, Andrea knew she didn't want to keep his struggle secret. She decided to share his story openly. Hoping that being honest may help break the stigma and let other families know they're not alone., I wanted to do something I wasn't even thinking of, you know, showcasing any kind of creative work I want. I was thinking of setting up programs in the arts for, you know, young adults who were struggling with addiction or mental illness for the same reason that I was trying to encourage my son, and at the, at the time it was too, it was too early. He had just passed and it was very difficult for me to enter into that world and be around, , you know, addiction. So I kind of, you know, I put it to the side. And then, you know, and also another thing is early on when I did find his work. I had put it away for, for Hmm. probably a year or two because, and I find this with a lot of parents who lose children. It is, it's very painful to go through their work. To look at their work. You know, it's like you were, it's like a knife going through your heart, you know? Yeah, I get that. I, I get that. I almost had the opposite reaction. I had immediately wanted to photograph and catalog everything of Emily's, I think I was so worried about losing it or not Right, was, or not having it figured out that I would lose another piece of her. right, right, right. I, I understand that more so with visual art, but I think when you get into written works Right. and you're hearing, you know, their voice and their struggle. And maybe you're discovering things you didn't know and that, that, that's difficult. And anyway, so I, you know, I had, I was tossing around the idea because what do I do with all this work? You know what's gonna happen to it. And I kind of just let it go. And it, I was in a, um, grief group and a man started, um, talking. He had just lost his son and he said, he said, my son wrote left behind 18 symphonies. What am I gonna do with that? Yeah. will ever hear my son's music. And that, that was my cue. And when I left that night, I said, this is what I need to do. I need to get, you know, this work out there. So, so it has a home and it doesn't, you know, fade into obscurity. What What? response have you had to your effort to showcase the works of people who have died? Uh, you know, I've had a, you know, pretty, pretty good response. I mean, I, the, the only hold, the only, the only reason people hold back is just be, especially if it's. Their loved one had just passed is that it's too early, you know, and they'll, they'll get back to, you know, they'll get back and submit work. But for the families that do submit, it's been, and I hear this all the time, how healing. How healing it it is and how they, you know, visit the, visit the site just to see their, their loved ones work. And also they have a place they can direct people. You know, like, uh, one woman that lost her son said, you know, told me, she says, now at least I have a place, if anybody wants to, you know, hear my son's music or, or learn about him, I can tell them to go to your site. Yeah, Yeah. have tried to provide something for families as well. We don't. It's not based on art, but we have provided, uh, a memorial website Right. a number and more than just a number.org where people can submit, uh, their loved one's story because we feel it's so important. Like these are people and how so many people are only remembered for. How they died. Exactly. a stigmatized, That's right. whether it right. or addiction. Um, it, it just, it, nobody remembers who they were and we want as their loved ones. We want people to remember them for who they were. Right. Or introduce them Yeah. the world. Yeah. You know, because people, you know, they think addict or they, they don't realize, you know, who the, who they actually were and what they contributed and what they left and Yeah. No, it's so important. We're also on. On our website, aside from showcasing, um, the creative work, we just started like a week or two ago, um, introducing legacy stories so people can, you know, send in, submit stories about their loved one. Not necessarily their about their creative work, but who they, who they were. Right, Yeah. really, you're not, you're not thinking so much a bio, but maybe like a specific story Yeah. That's cool. Right, right, right. A, a reflection or, you know, it could be a memory, it could be anything. Right. Yeah. So what. what has, what have you learned as you've been doing this and, and you've been taking people's stories for a little while now and showcasing their art, and what have you learned through this process? I've learned how I can't, how much creative work is out there? You know, we hear about people that are well known that pass away sure. you know, their work gets seen or you know, heard and we remember. But most artists never had any public recognition, you know, and Right. amazing how much is left and, and one thing. really struck me when we did our first Emily's Hope art show and auction, and I had this idea. I, I, we'd cataloged all art and I just, I wanted to showcase it. And we were able to get in to a local gallery, uh, um, a, well, a pretty big gallery in my community at the, you know, takes a year or two on a waiting list. But there was a ca miraculously there was a cancellation, and Emily's work was hung on the walls of Oh. And I sat there on a bench on that gallery after. All the work was up and cried Oh, she never got to experience that. She, the closest she ever came was we had a friend who has a, like a soul cycling Mm-hmm. these white walls and he asked if, um, she could hang her walls. There. So all Right. in and out of the soul cycling place could see it. And she was so excited about that. And she worked so hard Oh. getting all that ready that was a thrill for her. But she didn't get to experience it in a gallery. And it made me so sad, but I was grateful at the same time. It's bittersweet, right? Right. at the same time that her work was hung up here and people were coming in to look at it. Right, right. Well, that's the other thing with our site is that, you know, at least it continues. It wasn't, you know, 'cause the, you know, you think when you discover all this work, um, was it all for nothing? Right. Right, You know, and here, you know, it's still out there, so it's, and maybe, which I believe they, they know wherever they are, you know, that it's, we're continuing their story. Yeah, I sure hope so. Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices are age appropriate lessons, starting kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emily's hope edu.org to learn more and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. You can check out the artist's work, including Ethan's and Emily's by visiting the Artist Lives website. We've included a link in the show notes for this episode. While you're there, we just love it. If you take just a moment to rate and review this podcast and please share it with someone you know needs to hear it, the more people who hear these stories, the more we can raise awareness about substance use disorder and hopefully decrease the stigma surrounding the disease and encourage those who are struggling to seek help. You became a grief coach through this process. I did. I did, but only a year ago, so it's, me too. I, I think it I think it was funny. went through a grief education course, Right. educator. I lead a support group of other parents like us. Uh, and so I thought I should do that, and I think it's been helpful. Uh, but it, I think it was about a year and a half, maybe two years ago that I went through that. It took me a while before I really wanted to, , do that. Yeah, well, you know, through going to, I mean, going to support groups and I met so many other, you know, parents, especially moms that had lost their kids you know, I was, you know, year or two or two or three years in, so I knew what they were going through and, you know, so I was, I spent a lot of time trying to help them before I actually decided, you know, this is something I, I should, I should do. And I recently, um, over the summer, I started writing a book. In her book, Andrea wants to reach out to other parents who have lost children. She hopes her words offer comfort and healing and help them find a way forward through what can feel like unimaginable pain. After I lost my son, I lo, I read so many grief books. there was, there was nothing. I mean, there were memoirs or they were, you know, he healing or, but there was nothing that actually told you what to do. You know, like tips, tools, strategies, what to, how to respond to somebody when they, when they ask you how many children you have, or, tough one. How that's a tough one,'cause we talk about that in our support group quite a bit. How do what? What would you say people should do? How should they respond when people ask, and maybe you don't wanna go into the, the problem is like, you maybe don't wanna go into the whole right? meeting someone briefly. Right. I think it depends who's asking. Right. You know, if it's somebody you know, you, you are talking to for five minutes, who you know. But, um, I always, I have a daughter also, Mm-hmm. I, I always say I have two children because I don't wanna deny my son's existence. Right, feel that's really important. He was here, he mattered, and I'm still his mom, right. know? Yeah. So I, I do say too, but it depends, you know, I can understand why people hesitate. What has grief taught you? I guess just that I still feel it's more, I more, I'm still connected to people who pass away that I, maybe, because I also got, I've had so many signs and different. Things happen that I can't really explain since my son passed away, that I feel, you know, it's comforting to me and I feel that he's still, I feel he is still with me. And, um, I, that's definitely helped with my grief and I, you know, and it, I think it taught me that. We still, you know, whether you believe it or not, we, you know, there's something to be said about that. We still, um, you know, connect. We're still around. Yeah, Yeah. that's really beautiful. And I think I've talked to so many parents and I myself would agree with you on that. I've had a lot of things happen that you can't explain and, and signs and things that give me. Hope that, uh, Emily is still with me somehow, Mm-hmm. feel that you feel it, right? It's Yes. um, you feel your child is still with you. At least energy never dies, right? No, where no. go? We Right. have all the answers. No. we can have faith, we can have lot beliefs. We could have lots of things, Right, we don't really know. But I right. there are a lot of parents who would say the same exact thing that you just said. Yeah. Yeah. It, it. if, if people wanna contribute to your artist lives gallery, what would you suggest they do? um, go to our website, the artist lives.org, and there's a submission form on, you know, on our site. And we love to honor all these, you know, artists that passed away that, you know, and visual art, music, writing, um, it doesn't matter, you know, how old they were or background or we don't curate anything because, you know, it's, it's not about that. It's about sharing the work that's the most important thing. So we don't judge whether, you know, something is worthy of, um, having a platform or not. Well, that's wonderful and it's, it's a wonderful outlet for people and a way to pay tribute to their loved ones. and to celebrate their lives and their talent. Uh, and art is subjective, so, Right, right. Yeah. And I Right. it's, it's wonderful that you've, you're doing this. Thank you so much. Thank Yeah, of course. Oh yeah. found me because you reached out to me and I was like, of course I will provide you with, with, uh, pieces of her work, uh, because I always love to share that. Yeah. Yeah. And any other work you have, we'd love to, you know, include it in, on her page Well, and, and stories and you know, and there's also the case where there are artists who been discovered after they pass away, Right, know, so you never know. Well. and I am anxious to read your book. When you're finished with that, will you come back on the podcast when that's done? I. I will. I will. Thank you. That's Fantastic. so much. Thank you so much. Yeah. pleasure to meet you this way and to get to know a little bit more of Ethan's story and the incredible work that you're doing. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I and thank you for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. Check out hundreds of other episodes anytime on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. While you're there, you'll find the latest news headlines on substance use disorder and the overdose epidemic, along with my personal blog, plus Ways to get involved in our mission. Thank you again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Warner, king and Kaylee Fitz.