I am Angela Kenkey. Welcome to a special episode of Grieving Out Loud, where we're taking a look back at some of the important emotional and informative conversations I've had over the past year. I believe that when we tell our stories honestly and openly, we create space to learn from one another, to feel less alone, and of course to find hope. I encourage people to find some measure of peace about dying, about the nature of life itself that we pass. We come here, we have this incredible gift. How did this happen? My God, I'm conscious, I'm awake. I get to see colors and beauty. These episodes have featured parents like me who shared the heartbreak of losing a loved one to fentanyl poisoning, as well as families navigating the pain and uncertainty of substance use disorder. You can understand if you're in pain, you have a hole inside, or you feel like something, you know, you're just looking to get some relief, I think. it's so easy for them too. Like it's so easy to get any of these, you know, drugs, whether they're pills or they're cannabis or they're, you know, um. It's right there at them for the taking. And that's just what makes it so dangerous. With illicit drugs so widely available and young people facing growing mental health and substance use crisis, the questions feel more urgent. What can be done? This year I've had the opportunity to speak with lawmakers, law enforcement leaders, and public officials, both on and off the podcast about exactly that. That includes Derek Maltz, who served as the acting administrator of the DEA. Opening the border definitely contributed, but that's not the only issue. So just to be clear, like you obviously know 'cause you brought it up, this stuff is coming in from all different ways and you know, we have to all just unite behind it. We can't start fighting over the politics. And many of us who have lost loved ones to the opioid epidemic are now coming together to push for awareness and change in the process. We're also finding connection and support. I've learned how to incorporate Sterling and Marc, my mom, my dad. All those precious ones, my grandmother, my grandfather, that are dear and near to me in my life, that's Hope filled for me. They're with me, they're not gone, they're just not physically present where I can go, give them a hug and I can, you know, dance with them and eat with them and engage in great conversation. But they're present with me because they've left something that is embodied in my spirit. As we look back at some of the grieving out loud conversations from 2025, I just wanna take a moment to say thank you. Thank you for supporting this podcast as we work to spread awareness about the deadly fentanyl epidemic, substance use disorder, and the mental health crisis. I also want to thank every guest who has candidly shared their personal stories. I truly think by sharing our experiences, we can all learn from each other and hopefully prevent future heartache. One issue we've covered both on this podcast and on our website, Emily's Hope Charity is how teens and young adults are getting their hands on illicit drugs. Social media, especially Snapchat continues to play a major. This year I spoke with Amy Neville and Bridget ing. They call themselves bereaved besties. It is a friendship born of heartache. After both of their teenage sons died, they bought what they thought was a prescription pill off Snapchat instead, in both cases, it was a deadly dose of fentanyl. We monitored Alex's social media. That was part of the deal of having social media is we got to Sure. we had all the passwords, everything. And at the time, you know, these companies were, you look for sexual predators and you look for bullies. Especially to older parents like myself, like this is all new technology for us. We don't know what we don't know, and we really need their help navigating that landscape. Well, Ray and I didn't have any idea of all the drug dealing on there whatsoever.'cause again, when we handed over our social media to our kids, it was the bullying and the sex predators. That's all we were ever informed that we're you should be watching out for. But even with the Snapchat and the monitoring of it. that didn't stop like my kids from going and creating a secondary account that we had no idea even existed. And, you know, it was really hard sitting in that first Snapchat meeting that we had in 2021 with their executives and to hear their executives say, well, you should have been monitoring your kids. And it's like, They put it back on you. But how do you monitor your children on an app where the text messages. Disappear. You, you can't, there's no way. Unless your kid saves 'em by chance. You know? And that's the whole lure with Snapchat is the I. messages. in fact, I would go as far as saying they made the platform even more dangerous when they updated their geo location settings. So Oh to pinpoint within the exact room of your home. I mean, how dangerous is that? And we ex, From Devin's case that they were using the geolocation to go around and sell these pills. for people that don't know, explain the geolocation feature. Well, you can turn on the geolocation and it just basically will show you are at on, on the little map. Anybody can seek out your, kid. I mean, my daughter had it on not that long ago, and I was like, Hailey, turn that off. I can see that you're in your home on such and such blow. Like, you know, and for the drug dealers, that's their big thing. Like if they go to like a concert or something and they put in that, Hey, I'm in Minneapolis, and there's like a lot of activity there. These people can find these drug dealers. Despite the frustration that the process often feels slow, there have been encouraging signs. This year. Many states, but not all have reported decreases in drug deaths. From 2024 to 2025, still hundreds of Americans continue to die every day. Officials say one factor behind the decline is wider access to naloxone. The medication can reverse an opioid overdose. Here at Emily's Hope, we've installed public Naloxone distribution boxes in strategic locations throughout South Dakota. You can find a list on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. We've included a link in the show notes. I've also had the privilege of hearing from people whose lives have been saved by Naloxone. Including Morgan mentally. She shared that around three dozen of her friends' lives have been saved. Thanks to our Emily's Hope distribution of free Naloxone in the Sioux Falls South Dakota area. Nobody wants to be stuck in addiction. And sometimes people act like, If you choose to do drugs, then you're an idiot. But it's really not a choice. Maybe it's a choice the first time, but after that, I mean, I experienced it. It's not a choice that addiction controls everything and you become a person that you don't even know anymore. I'm willing to bet most of us, if not all of us don't want to be like that. It's like we're trapped and the desire of our hearts is to be sober and clean and experiencing a good life. But. we just can't do it. And so with Narcan being available, it gives people the chance to get there. If it weren't for Narcan, I would've never experienced the recovery side of it. The piece that I feel now, it's incomparable to the misery that I was experiencing every day in active addiction. It's not fun. It's not fun to wake up sick. It's not fun to spend your entire life chasing around. A drug that you know could potentially kill you. And also in addiction, sometimes you get to the point where you don't even, you don't even feel like you matter. So for there to be a program that offers Narcan, that that tells you like every life matters, like you do matter. And there is hope. There really is hope. And it really, like you can have it, it's yours if you want it, but you gotta try. And if it weren't for Narcan, then a lot of us wouldn't even be able to try to get there. Like addiction is pain. Like I would not, I would not wish that on my worst enemy in the world every day of that was awful. And seeing your friends overdosing and. Dying. Almost dying and it's awful. And now that I can like look back from another point of view, it's like I wish I could just wrap up what I have now and give it to them. And if it weren't for Narcan, I wouldn't have that. If it weren't for Narcan. Like my kids wouldn't have a mom and my mom would've had to bury her daughter. And it's just a whole domino effect. everybody deserves a chance. And a lot of us in active addiction, we don't see our worth until we make it to recovery. And in recovery, I learned like that I'm worthy of being loved and I can love myself. And I did not have that in active addiction. So if it weren't for people who loved me enough to save my life, if they would've just let me go, I wouldn't have been able to experience. All of the good that the world offers. Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story on our new Emily's Hope memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, and friends. So much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on more than just a number.org. in addition to distributing Naloxone, Emily's hope raises money for treatment scholarships because even when someone is ready to ask for help, the cost of treatment can feel impossible to overcome, and we're working to change that. This year on Grieving Out Loud, we spoke with a mom who received a second chance thanks to an Emily's Hope treatment scholarship. Nobody loves to tell their story of shame and of guilt. But I feel the more we keep it quiet, the more people Don't see that it's real, and it's out there, and it's every day, and it's in people that you don't expect it. I had so many people say, I would have never guessed. You seem like you always had it together. And why I put on this really great face right away, inside I was dying. I was miserable inside. But I presented really, really well until I didn't present well anymore. You couldn't keep up the facade. I couldn't and now I don't have to keep up a facade. I can be me, and I can be like, this is what happened, but guess what? You can get help. We have the opportunity with Emily's Hope to get the help. We have people that can love you through this, and the support that's there to get through all of it. And you can help other people by sharing that. And your story really is one of hope, I think. Completely, in multiple ways. He has a big plan for me. And I'm seeing it come through now. I don't know what that's going to look like in the long run with everything, but I find so much joy. My life has completely changed. I'm in a new career. A career that I can help people world. And I love that. I can share my story openly with anybody. Yeah, why share your story? Because it's important for people to feel like they're not alone. They need to understand that it happens to anybody. It does not discriminate. And to give people hope. To know that you can come from down here where you don't even want to live anymore. To just coming above and just finding complete joy in your life again. I've heard more people say that to me. I can see it in your smile. I can see it in your face. I can see it in who you are now. The old Melissa's back. The real one. Yeah. And the thought is, and I had a friend who told me this once, and this is something that I've had to really work through. She goes, put a picture of yourself up on your refrigerator. And she goes, you had some bad days and stuff. She goes, but would you be mean to that little girl? So I was myself in kindergarten up on the fridge. Would you be mean to that little girl? So don't keep beating yourself up because you made some bad choices. Well, and it's not just about choices. This is your brain reacts differently to alcohol than my brain. And it is a disease of the brain. And so if you can look at it that way, you don't beat yourself up for having breast cancer. Nope. You know, so you can't beat yourself up for having substance use disorder. No, and it took me a long time to get to that point. Also this year I've been honored to meet others like Melissa, who are using their difficult experiences to help others. One of them is Aaron Westfall, who lost his mom at a young age and then suffered child abuse, brain cancer, and a battle with addiction. Erin is now working as a paramedic to try to help others at some of the lowest points in their lives. What do you bring to the table as a paramedic who has suffered from an opioid use disorder and now you are out on the streets in recovery helping people? You've gotta be bringing something different to the table than other paramedics. Compassion, kindness, and understanding. Um, I'm very, very vocal about, um, my, addiction, what I was addicted to, how long I've been clean. I don't look at that person as an addict. That's a human. That's a beating heart. and I, I can tell you from experience, another addict knows another addict. You know, Angela, you could sit and tell somebody, oh, I understand what you're going through. Because you haven't experienced it, you don't, I know what they feel. I know that fear that, you know, takes over your entire body when Narcan is deployed on you. I know the sickness you're getting ready to face know the steps that are gonna happen. So it also helps me mitigate those that I'm, I'm prepared, you know, when I give Narcan, I've got antiemetics or nausea medication ready to come up right behind it. you know, I know, you know, they, they could possibly have a seizure. I'm prepared to treat that, you know, so because I've lived it and I also take care of it, um, I feel like I've, I've got a little bit more edge on taking care of these people. Oh, I'm, I bet you do. Have you had any pushback for being so public with your story? Oh, 100%. Um, think when you don a uniform, um. albeit, you know, police, EMS or fire, that we are these people who have never had life happen to us. And we are. And I think being more real makes us more relatable. It kinda removes that stigma of that we're unapproachable. I've had other medics and other EMTs, Pull me aside and say, you know, you shouldn't say that, or, shouldn't share that. I'm going to do it anyway, Hmm. Good for you. I'm so happy that you are, because it will help so many people staying silent about these things. Uh, it's just like with my daughter's death. I could have lived in the shadow of shame because my daughter died from fentanyl poisoning. I certainly could have hid it. Um, tried to skirt around it, but. What good would that have done for the world? You know, it, I, it wouldn't have brought her back and I wouldn't have helped a single person. And it's the same, your, your, your life experience has taught you something, therefore you can help other people. Correct. while Emily May not be present with you today, you know, carrying that legacy and. I never met the girl, but I guarantee she'd be proud of the work that her mom's doing. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that sentiment, and I am so grateful for the work that you are doing and that you're talking about it and that you're helping people and that you're in this role to save lives. But not only can you save their life, but you can even steer them into the direction of recovery because you've been there. Yep. Um, I'm not afraid to have that conversation. I've had it, many times in the back of an ambulance, you know, are you ready to get clean? Or, you know, can we get you in a bed, you know? I've given out my cell phone number to people. Hey, you're thinking about using, you don't have another out call me. I care if I'm on duty, off duty, I'll come get you. I'll get you outta that situation. You know, I don't know these people from Adam, but that's just something I need to do. Yeah, and I think you're right. It's easy for society to dismiss people who are suffering from substance use disorder as almost like non-human. Like oh, you're just doing this bad thing and we don't care about you, and you're. you're dispensable. We can just get rid of you. It doesn't matter if you die. And too often we hear that attitude from I don't wanna, we have a lot of compassionate people in law enforcement, but there are those who aren't. Right. And I'm sure in every, bad paramedics. There's good paramedics, bad yeah. para, you know, so Right, has their, their people. So. Our goal here at Emily's Hope isn't only to support people already struggling with substance use disorder. It's also to help prevent it before it starts. That's why we've created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum. I will share more information about that in just a moment. But first, hear from a member of our Youth Prevention Coalition who has been raising awareness everywhere from her own school all the way to Washington DC. Sixth grade I was, it was always like everyone told you, if they were seventh or eighth there, I was like, don't go into this bathroom. All the kids in there will be vaping. Or seeing my friends fall down those holes, or just seeing it happen in real life was like. Okay, this is, this is real. I had no idea and. I've gotten older, it's people turn different substances. Um, like kids smoke weed, they smoke other things. Like they don't really know exactly what they're getting because they just get it however they can. But, um, I will hear a lot from people and or you hear the rumors of, oh, so and so was doing this, or so and so did that. Or you see it physically at football games or in the hallways or in their Snapchat stories or tiktoks like. You see them doing it. And to them they don't think it's a bad thing because they think, oh, everyone does it. It's fun. But I think the important thing about Emily's hope is bringing that awareness because I know I've had conversa hard conversations with people where I'm like, do you know where that's coming from? Because you're getting it from a friend who got it from a friend who got it from a friend and, it's like that concern of are you being safe? And I think so many kids don't realize that, and they just use these substances because their peers use them or their older siblings use them or. they saw it online or any of those things, it's just kind of a peer pressure situation for them. Right. It's so socially acceptable. Now when we're talking about weed, do you think um, weed is the most prevalent drug that kids are using, or you think it's alcohol and both alcohol and weed, or what's your feel for that? I would say alcohol is slightly more just because it's the easy and more accessible because a lot of kids can find it in their own households. Um, a lot of parents, I think more in South Dakota, since we're a red leaning state, that parents. It's not a common thing, but weed. Yeah. weed. And Yeah. Mm-hmm. can't find that as easily. Obviously there's still ways to get it, and they do, and I think it is still heavily used by kids, and a lot of times it's sold by kids to kids. Like, I'm not sure where those kids get it, but I know a lot of the people that I know get their weed from other kids our age. Hmm. of that concept of one kid gets it and distribute it for that, whereas the alcohol, they fight it in their parents' houses or. They get it at stores. A lot of places in Sioux Falls I know are not the best all the time at IDing kids 'cause really simple for them. In some places, like a lot of the vape shops in town just want the business and they don't do Right. diligence and things. And so it's a higher risk of them easily getting it. So both are very prevalent within our community, I would say. Are you ready to protect the next generation from the dangers of substance use? Emily's Hope has created a comprehensive K through 12 substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate, empower, and equip students with the tools they need to make healthy choices are age appropriate lessons, starting kindergarten and build through high school using science, real stories and interactive learning to help kids understand their bodies, brains, and risk of drug use. We're already reaching thousands of students across multiple states, and we're just getting started. Visit emily's hope edu.org to learn more and share our curriculum with your school administrators and counselors. At Emily's Hope, we believe prevention begins with education. Let's work together to keep our kids safe. And we know there's really not an organized effort to do compliance checks on vape shops necessarily. There was recently, um, something in the news about vape shops selling illegal products. Products like had magic mushrooms in them and different things, uh, higher levels, higher concentrated levels of THC and that kind of thing. So I don't know if kids know about that or what we hear about the gas stations, you know, some of the kratom products at gas stations. Do kids get their hands on those kinds of things too? Do you think? I would say yes. I think the shrooms and the gummies and stuff are things that I know kids have taken, but I had no idea that there was the THC level issues that was happening in Sioux Falls. I don't think any of them. Those kids are aware in those issues. Um, they just take what they can get their hands on and, Yeah. it's in a packet that looks like gummy worms. How fun. It's those concepts to them make it so much easier to be trapped into, oh, this looks like it's part marketed for me, or something else that I like, or this flavor I'll like because it's super sugary. Like it's all targeted, I think, Yeah. schoolers. Yeah, those Delta, Delta 8, 9, 10 products are all, uh, target. The packaging or the, or the kratom packaging is all targeted really toward young people. You can see that in the packaging, and I think kids who aren't savvy right, can think, oh, well, this is cool. This is okay. But what scares me when kids are getting weed, if they're not, if it's not coming from a legal dispensary. We know it can be laced with fentanyl, and Yep. that's one danger. But the other biggest danger, alcohol, weed, all these substances is to the developing brain. Do you think kids don't know about that or do you think they just don't care? They just don't care. I think it's one of those concepts that, oh, well that's one in a million, not me. Or like, I right. to really be addicted and use it all the time, every single day, every minute for it to have an impact. Which isn't true. Like they tell us those things and health where it's like, oh, it affects your brain, but we never are like really taught this is an issue. This happens with if you do it so many this many times, it. Causes that to them. It's, I'm invincible because I'm not an alcoholic, so to say, or someone who is dependent on these resources and Yeah. Right. Kids just think it can't happen to me. That's basically what you're saying. Right. Yep. And how are you able to sort of rise above all of that? I'm sure there's a lot of parties, maybe you're not invited to the parties, Molly, 'cause people know that you don't partake in those things. How are you able to sort of resist And I even think about you like going to college. You'll have a lot more opportunities next year to be presented with things. Yeah. Um, I'm very, very lucky with the group of people I surround myself with that they have never been, none of us have ever been that. Um, there have been times where. you said, I'm not invited to parties. I had a few friends at one point that constantly going places and they wouldn't even tell me they were going, and I found out and they freaked out and they're like, well, you don't do that, so we didn't invite you. And then they got mad.'cause I was like, oh, that's okay. Just be safe. Or maybe let's not do that. So I would definitely say that it's hard because. Sometimes people aren't gonna like the choices I make. And I'm not saying that I don't like the choices everyone makes, but I care a little bit more I think, and I'm a little more knowledgeable on those things. So it makes me really concerned and a lot of them don't see that. So it's definitely the, the impact of being strong-willed enough to say, no, I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. set that now from freshman year, I set that of I'm not gonna go to those things. I don't choose, make those choices. So it's like a known thing where kids aren't pushing as much so. It does take a really strong will, Molly. And I think also a certain amount of confidence that not all young people have because it, it, it, it's very hard. You want people to like you, right? Everybody wants to, and in high school, you're, you're trying to fit in. And, um, I, I remember a lot of those feelings myself from high school. You know, it's a tough time. And to have the confidence in yourself and in your choices, and to be able to stick by those, that's, that's tough. It really is. Um, I will say I'm, one of the few that is very, as strong wheeled as I am at my age, so it's been a problem for me, but from my friends that I know that have struggled with it, where it's like, well, I don't want, like, I don't have a lot of friends, or when they're falling down that hole, it's, they just need support from people who are,'cause I think that's one thing that. Parents specifically with awareness need to be, the foot needs to go down and they need to support their kid in the way of, no, let's find a new friend group.'cause that's not the choices we want you to be making right. And, and that can be quite the battle. That can be a real tough thing. Um, there aren't easy answers. Like we, you and I can't just give people a pat answer like, here, here's what to do with your kid. Um, maybe it's, it's hard to find a new friend group. And, um, those things, those are tough things to go through, but. I, I really admire your, your tenacity and the confidence that you have in yourself. And, helping, um, for Emily's Hope to start the Youth Empowerment Clubs, which the idea behind this is to create leaders who are gonna encourage other kids to do what you're doing, to not use these substances, um, to keep their brains healthy until they're fully developed, at least, and hopefully beyond that. But what do you think it takes to convince kids? To do what you're doing or to go down a different path to join the clubs and things like that. I think you definitely have to start them early of getting to them right when they're freshmen.'cause at that age you still are kind of naive to the world of what everything is. I think also you need to just bring awareness and examples and show them the harsh reality.'cause I think a lot of the people that I know that. Have fallen down those rabbit holes have no idea what they're truly getting into in the risks of some of the things they do. All right. think being able to show them and say, this is a statistic that if you smoke that weed. It might be laced with fentanyl and you could die from it, and you have no idea because you had no idea that weed could be even laced with anything. So making sure they understand the harsh reality and the concerns and why it's not okay, and then also getting to them early before they decide. That's what's gonna make me cool. That's how I'm gonna Right. You've likely heard about people dying every year from Fentanyl, but what about marijuana? This year I spoke with two moms who believed that marijuana contributed to their children's deaths. One of them was Paula Santos Young, who says her son Andrew unknowingly consumed marijuana laced with a deadly substance. He was diagnosed with PTSD. Anxiety and some social depression. So Andrew was not someone to take a pill ever since he was a child. I mean, even giving him a shot, they would need four to five people just to hold him down to give him a vaccine when he was younger. So his doctor at the time said, Hey, listen, why don't we apply for a medical marijuana card because you have these diagnosis. I've given them to you. Let's get this done. And that's what he did. While Andrew had a medical marijuana card, Paula says on the day he died, he didn't go to the dispensary himself. Someone else got the marijuana for him. When Andrew received the marijuana, it was given to him by someone he knew, and he had known already for about two years that he had lived in Maryland. So he had known this person. They had actually played basketball together. basketball I will tell you that even on his phone, there was a dialogue of this person telling him, Hey, I'm gonna go pick this up for you 'cause I know you're working. I'm gonna get it at the dispensary. Well, unbeknownst to us. I don't know if he got it from the dispensary or not, because to be honest with you, unfortunately, nothing's been done. We haven't received any justice. The police did have that person at the police department. They did speak to him, to and what was said to me is, well, Mrs. Young, what the hell did you expect? Did you expect a different outcome? So who told you that the police told you that? What, what did you expect? So the person who provided your son with the marijuana laced with fentanyl, it turns out and xylazine you later out, correct? Yes. Based no consequences whatsoever. Even though there was a dialogue on the phone, there was some proof the phone. Yep. No Nothing. No And I was told by the head detective, what the hell did I expect? Did I expect a different outcome? Because they already categorized him into, as we know, the stigma an addict, know, and this is one of the things that I continue to fight every day with what I'm doing, with achieved greatness, is fighting that stigma because fentanyl is affecting everyone. and even if someone is suffering from substance use, they're a human being for God's sakes, you know, sake. Well, and my daughter, was suffering from substance use disorder. In fact, we were three days away from holding intervention 'cause we knew something was horribly wrong. But substance use disorder does not define a human being. It's a disease of the brain. And that's some of the work we've been doing for years to try to reduce the stigma. But your son. I had these mental health issues. He was given a medical marijuana card. He thought his friend was getting marijuana from a dispensary. We don't know where his friend got it from, right? Do you we don't. And he ends up dead Only thing on him was this. He smoked part of this joint. So what did the coroner's report say? So the me report that came from Baltimore, I actually was in constant communication with a doctor I kind of demanded to talk to her because I wanted to know, you know, especially when I got the reporting that he also had xylazine in his system. I reached out to her and I said to her, I said, can you please explain this to me?'cause I'm a little lost, you know? Did he have anything else in his system? did he and just a pill? And maybe we just don't know. Or did he have, you know, was it a needle mark? Was it anything? And she said, Mrs. Young, he had nothing. Mrs. Young, he had Absolutely nothing. There was no marks on his body. There was nothing in his stomach. The only things that was in his system was the fentanyl, the marijuana, and xylazine. That's it. cytosine. That's it. And Xylazine is being put into these drugs to extend the high. So that's the reason for the xylazine, , is to extend the high. And it's a, a way, I don't know, to keep your customers coming back or something if they don't die. I mean, it's just, it's, it's it insane. Through this podcast, we not only want to raise awareness about fentanyl and decrease the stigma surrounding substance use disorder, we also wanna be a resource for those who have been through the unthinkable like I have. Losing a child despite doing everything you could to seek help and find answers. Here on Grieving Out Loud, we wanna offer hope, real hope that you can stand back up and discover a new kind of joy even after going through the worst loss possible. I'm continually inspired by the strength and resilience of people who share their stories with us. One of those is Mindy Cran. Her world was shattered when a hate crime took the lives of her dad and 14-year-old son. Rather than allowing her pain to turn into anger, she chose a different path. One rooted in kindness, compassion, and the belief that the world can still be a better place. My dad was very pragmatic as a physician, and I, I learned that from him. I have that in my DNA and so many people will ask me. How did you move forward? How do you keep moving forward? Why? How do you find joy? And you're exactly right. I know I cannot change that story. I cannot change what happened, but I can look forward and say, what can, what difference can I make going forward? Every day we have that. Choice. Every day we have the choice to think about hate or think about the crime, or think about kindness and think about helping others. And, you know, some days it's harder than others, but I always feel so much lighter in my heart and I feel better about myself. I feel closer to God, who I am faithful to when I choose kindness and hope. and I do have hope. I have hope for mankind all the time. Yeah, sometimes in today's world, it's hard to maintain that hope. It seems like we almost have whiplash from what's going on in the world. One bad thing after the other, oftentimes it seems, but I was thinking about that very thing this morning that I wanna be a beacon of light in the world. I wanna provide people hope. Uh, my, the circumstances surrounding my daughter's death are very different than the circumstances surrounding your sons and, and your father's death. But there are still culpable people and, people that I could be very angry with. but just does mean no good. Right? And so in the case of the shooter, he eventually received justice. I do wanna cover that before we go on to talk about. The way you have transformed other people's lives. He did receive justice. Uh, I absolutely believe he has gotten that so. We didn't have much say so in what legal process took place. It pretty much is out of your hands at that point when it happens in the way that it happened. And the state of Kansas had the death penalty and the district attorney used the death penalty in the case, or, or asked for the death penalty. And so the shooter was found and persecuted and then put on death row. and then he passed away. He died of natural causes. So here's the very interesting thing about hope and spirit and God, is that he died the day, the exact day that my book published. So Healing a Shattered Soul, published on May 3rd, 2021, and he died in prison on May 3rd, 2021. Wow. What are the chances? Right? You have to take something right, right. Yeah. Did he ever show any No, none. The complete opposite, no remorse. And, and that was something that we had to release and it was very, very difficult for our, you know, then 12-year-old son between 12 and 14 during the trial, et cetera. Lucas, our son, wanted to speak directly with the shooter and we. Spoke to the district attorney and assistant district attorney at the time, and they were so gracious. They scheduled time for Lucas. And Lucas went to the meeting with his phone and his hand, and he had all of his questions on his phone. And he sat down, and asked his questions of the district attorney and, the DA said, he is the most evil man that we have ever faced, Lucas. And he said, I have a son your age and I would not want my son to ever speak with this person in person. And he said, so I understand how difficult it is, but you know, it is in your best interest that you not try to speak with him. And let me tell you. After the shooter was convicted and placed on death row, I think it'd been maybe one or two years. And Lucas reached out to the district attorney and asked, is it possible now? I think, I think what happened was when Lucas was of age, I think when Lucas turned 18 or 19, he reached out and the district attorney was about to, um. Reach back out to him. You know, months would go by between their conversations. But I, I don't know that Lucas holds that or harbors that he didn't speak to him. Uh, I'm very thankful that he didn't, but he definitely was seeking some kind of remorse that I have always felt like we would never get, and we didn't. He died in prison. Right. Right. And how is Lucas doing today? Because we recently had a podcast that I'd been wanting to do for years and finally did with my own now adult children about losing a sibling, you know, in a shocking, unexpected way. And, you know, it's, it's really shaped their lives in ways that I couldn't have imagined. And also I think it's actually, it's not all bad. it's hard to say that. Like, it's, it's made them deeper people that kind of know what's important in life and what they value and what's important in friendships and with people. although it's, there's a lot of bad that goes with it, obviously, when you have a traumatic event, when you're so young. But how is Lucas Uh, Thank you for asking. He is doing very, very well right now. He is gainfully employed in Dallas, Texas. He graduated from the University of Arkansas. that's where Okay. too. Okay. Yep. So he graduated from the University of Arkansas and he is employed in Dallas and he is doing very well. I don't know how your children manage, but I can imagine, I do know that they had each other and he didn't have another sibling. And I would say that has been. And continues to be the most difficult aspect is that he doesn't have another sibling to lean on. And there are some key friends of his and cousins who fill that gap for him. So yes, he's doing very, very well. Now a significant. Part of our lives was leaving Kansas four years later. So the murders happened in 14, 20 14. We left Kansas in 2018 for Lucas. We left to help him survive and then thrive. And it worked. So it worked for our marriage, it worked for our family relationship, the three of us. And it worked for Lucas. And so we moved to Florida at that time and he needed a restart. And also he didn't heal the way I was healing. I was healing through the nonprofit that I know we're gonna chat about. And I was healing through other ways. And he wanted to heal a different way. And so we needed to move so that he could heal his way. And luckily, we had the technology that I could immediately start working remotely in 2018. And so we lived in the same home and we healed completely different ways. That makes total sense to me because my family followed a similar trajectory. I didn't move. I live in the same community, but I was in the public eye, so everybody knew me. Everybody knew the story. Unfortunately, that also means they knew who my children were. They knew what happened, so they were sort of defined by this story. My kids were a little older than Lucas, so within a year to two years, they left the house. And they each went to separate cities, so they were able to restart their own lives there, uh, which was very healing, I think, for both of them. And they weren't completely defined by their mom and their family and what happened in their family. So I completely understand what you're saying. It was just a little bit different scenario in my family.'cause my kids were a little older than Lucas at the Yes, it does sound very similar, and so I think both of us could recommend to other parents. That in the same household, we all grieve differently and it's so important to be aware of that. So I tell people that I became busy and worked. I was a workaholic. Lucas was more angry than anything. He was an. Just an angry little bugger from 12 to 15. And then, and then my husband drank more alcohol than he should have. And, and all of this has been public knowledge, so it's not anything new. And, and we needed to detach ourselves from that home and that space where everyone knew who we were. So we did, and, and we go back, I go back more than they do, but we all go back and for a period of time we can be there without being angry. We can be there and enjoying it. Um, but I don't ever see myself living in Overland Park again, or Kansas City, although I love it and I consider it very much a home community. and people have asked me before, and I said, you know, when I'm there about eight to 10 days at a time, I start getting angry. I start. Seeing too many memories and too many ways that we couldn't solve them, you know, too many memories that really didn't happen. And so that um, that just is a reminder of why we moved away. So I, I live a life in Florida and I'm loving it with my husband. Lucas is in Dallas, and we see each other very often. And then all three of us get in and out of Kansas City as we need to. Well, the ways you talked about coping with grief are very common. I mean, uh, either turning to substances, turning to work, becoming extremely busy. That was me by the way, still is really, and then, or becoming angry. And I think anybody who has experienced a traumatic loss. Or any kind of loss can relate to all three of those things.'cause either that's been them or someone that they love. You instead thought, I wanna create a better kinder world. So tell me about that. I felt that immediately. It's a very, and I'm not sure how to explain it other than that was my faith and that was God working through me immediately and, and angels working through me literally, the night that they were murdered, I heard that there was going to be a vigil. A student vigil is what was told to me. There's gonna be a student vigil at the high school or a student vigil, and I wanted to attend the student vigil because when I was a. Sophomore in high school my dear friend Kyle was killed in a car accident. And it devastated me. It really derailed me for more years than I realized. And all of a sudden, Angela, when, when Reat was taken like that same. Evening when I heard student vigil, all of a sudden my heart leaped out of my chest and said, you have to go talk to those students so that they don't get derailed like you did when Kyle was killed and Kyle was killed in a car wreck. And so I went to that vigil. Just going to. Support students. And when I got there, it, well, for one, it wasn't at a high school, it was at an Episcopal church, and there's a whole story associated with the Episcopal church. So we get there and it is packed. There are people everywhere. And mind you, I did not understand, I had no comprehension of how. Large, this had become I was just at ground zero with them and finding them, and then again at ground zero, knowing that Reat lost his life at the hospital and now all of these people here and TV crews. And I was overwhelmed, but I immediately felt the need to comfort his friends and students because of the experience I had had. So I would say that. we create our onward. We create how we're going to go forward by what we may have experienced in the past or what we may not have experienced in the past, but we wish we would have. We create our onward. I'll leave you with those words today, and if you'd like to check out the full podcast episodes that we featured, you can find them on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. We've also included links in the show notes. I wanna thank you for taking the time to learn more about these important topics throughout the year. And if you have a suggestion for a future episode, please, I'd love to hear from you. You can contact me in the show notes. Stay tuned for more inspiring, informative, and emotional conversations in 2026. Thank you again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Weinberg, king and Kaylee Fitz.