Angela Kennecke: 0:07

Every day you likely have a to-do list. Sometimes it's written down, sometimes it's in your head. Regardless, we have a list of things we hope to accomplish in a day, but today's guest on greeting out loud also encourages you to make a different kind of list, A to die list.

Karen Salmansohn: 0:28

If you own the core values that you wanna be and you think about them often and you write them down, I am strong. And so I. I am resilient and so I, I am hopeful. And so I, and write these down on your to die list of who you want to become. By the time it's the end of your life, that's who you're gonna be known for than you're more likely to live a life like that

Angela Kennecke: 0:56

Today I'm sitting down with bestselling author and self-help coach Karen Salmansohn. Karen isn't afraid to tackle often taboo topics such as death and turn them into powerful, uplifting lessons on how to live more fully. I. What makes somebody resilient?

Karen Salmansohn: 1:16

A lot of it actually has to do with the questions you ask yourself after something really challenging happens. if you ask depressing questions, you're gonna get depressing answers. Like, if you're always asking, why me? Why didn't I, what if there's not gonna be any way that you can feel. Good after you ask depressing questions, so you have to kind of restructure it. What can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? How can I help others with what I went through? Turn your pain into purpose and intentionally look for the meaning in it. You know, there's something called post-traumatic growth, but it's not guaranteed that everybody's gonna get it. Post-traumatic growth has to be based on your mindset and your intention, and the more intentional you are about growing from something, the more likely it is to happen.

Angela Kennecke: 2:21

I am so grateful to be joined by bestselling author Karen Salmansohn. Thank you so much for joining me on Grieving Out Loud.

Karen Salmansohn: 2:28

Oh, it's, it's wonderful to be here. I love everything that you're doing and glad to be a part of this.

Angela Kennecke: 2:35

You've had so many books out, and they talk about happiness, they talk about resilience, and they talk about. Death and mortality and thinking about your own death, and we talk a lot about death on this podcast. It's called Grieving Out Loud because it is geared toward people who have experienced loss.

Karen Salmansohn: 2:54

Mm-hmm.

Angela Kennecke: 2:54

I'm one of those people, you're one of those people. Our losses may be different, but let's talk a little bit about how you started writing about all these things.

Karen Salmansohn: 3:05

Well. I'll go way back, but don't worry, I'll speed through it quickly. Back when I was a kid, I always loved psychology and my mom, whenever she would pick up my dad from the train station, I would go with her in the car and there was a little mom and pop shop across the street that had magazine rack and I would pluck one Psychology Day magazine. I was like. 10 or 11 or 12, like very young and one Mad Magazine, which was a humor publication. And I'd read both Voraciously and I sometimes think to myself that if you took Psychology Magazine and Mad Magazine, put them in a blender and press. Fra pay, you'd get my books.'cause I love psychology and philosophy and I take all of those things, but I blend in a little humor to help people to embrace difficult topics with a little bit of like a wink of humor to it. And then I started writing books. Like a long time ago, and I've written a bunch of different, what I call self-help for people who wouldn't be caught dead doing self-help because of the humor. And I had a book How to Be Happy, dammit, that came out and was a huge bestseller and it was in an Eminem music video. You see him reading the book? And in a PBS documentary on happiness because it was like, it had the serious, but it also had some of that feisty humor in it too. And then I've done the bounce back book, which had a red rubber cover on the outside you know, civilized, bouncing back. and that one had all kinds of resiliency, psychology inside of it as well. So that's sort of how I create things. And I create, I write from my own pain after I've like researched to help myself. In some ways I feel like. Okay, well this worked for me. Like my life is a Petri dish and I take everything and then I figure it out like what worked for me, and then I write about it.

Angela Kennecke: 5:03

And so resilience, let's talk about that. The bounce back book. We could talk about happiness too, you know, but I think a lot of people after loss feel like they'll never be happy again.

Karen Salmansohn: 5:14

Hmm.

Angela Kennecke: 5:15

if you have resilience, you will experience joy again in life.

Karen Salmansohn: 5:20

Yes.

Angela Kennecke: 5:20

what makes somebody resilient?

Karen Salmansohn: 5:23

A lot of it actually has to do with the questions you ask yourself after something really challenging happens. if you ask depressing questions, you're gonna get depressing answers. Like, if you're always asking, why me? Why didn't I, what if there's not gonna be any way that you can feel. Good after you ask depressing questions, so you have to kind of restructure it. What can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? How can I help others with what I went through? Turn your pain into purpose and intentionally look for the meaning in it. You know, there's something called post-traumatic growth, but it's not guaranteed that everybody's gonna get it. Post-traumatic growth has to be based on your mindset and your intention, and the more intentional you are about growing from something, the more likely it is to happen.

Angela Kennecke: 6:10

Shortly after my daughter died, I remember thinking instead of thinking, why me? I remember thinking, why not me? I. Why Hmm. it happen to me? I try to move away from that self pity always say there are two kinds of people in the world, bouncers and splatters. We all get pushed down into the pit of despair. The circumstances may be different, our pit may look different, my pit may look different from yours.

Karen Salmansohn: 6:36

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 6:37

of us. Bounce back up to the top and some of us splatter on the bottom. And I think that's where resilience comes in, right? Like, why some people can't bounce back up. Some people just can't. I know parents who've, completed suicide or use substances to kill themselves basically after their child's death. So, I mean, it's just such, such a tragic thing. And you wonder, why am I still here standing.

Karen Salmansohn: 7:03

Yeah, well, I think you need to in general, even on with small things, not something large, like dealing with the death of a loved one, but this applies to both the small and the large. If you only try to stop, I. Depressing and challenging thoughts, they will keep coming back. I compare it to, if my dog is constantly grabbing my slippers and chewing on them and I just said, stop, the dog would keep going back to the slippers 'cause it has this urge to chew on something. And so I'd have to do what I call a stop and swap. I'd have to say, don't chew on the slippers, chew on this bone, and then it has another thing to chew on. Well, when we're going through something that's very challenging, our brains need something to chew on. And if you only try to stop that circle of that spinning of negative thoughts you're gonna keep going back. So you have to swap in something. And I think what you did was you swapped in. a purpose for the pain to create something that honors your loved ones, you turned it into something that you could focus on with all of that intensity and give it the meaning and hope. But if you don't refocus on. Like a different kind of future and you only focus on the past or the future, you wished had come instead of getting yourself excited about a different kind of a future, then that's, you're gonna be what you called, what was it? A splatter. I think it's a general overarching philosophy in my new book your To Die For Life, I love Aristotle. He's like one of my favorites. In fact, I named my son Ari as a wink to Aristotle. And Aristotle says. you don't know if you've lived a good life until you're at the very end of it, and then you can kind of review and see. And he also says that you should begin every project with the ends in mind, including that gigantic project of your life and think about how you wanna feel at the very end of your life, and then reverse engineer it. And he says that everybody on this planet has the same goal for our lives. And that is to learn lessons that help us to grow into our best selves and everything that happens to you, if you view it with that lens, I am going to use this to help me to grow into my best self, then that can help you. To focus on how you wanna feel at the end of your life. Get yourself excited about the future, and everything that happens to you is fodder to become your best self. So when something really even absolutely. Terrible trauma happens. If you really think the goal of life is to help me to grow into my best self, and I'm determined to create a life where I learn from this, that's who I am. I'm the type of person who will grow from this, then you will become that type of person.

Angela Kennecke: 10:03

then that goes back to post-traumatic growth, right? So I always say that I'm a more compassionate, understanding person than I was before I went through this. And I think when you have suffered and when you've suffered a horrible loss, it makes you more human and you can relate to other people on a deeper level, especially other people who have. Also experienced losses. You could relate to them on a deeper level. And so therefore, in some ways, while I would my daughter back every day,

Karen Salmansohn: 10:34

Of course,

Angela Kennecke: 10:35

to be grateful for some of the suffering I've been through and how it shaped me. And that's a way of flipping the script around of what we usually think about when it comes to suffering.

Karen Salmansohn: 10:46

yes, definitely to see how it's helping you to grow and during these times, I like to think about core values as something that can help us to focus on, to grow into our best selves, and to think about the core values you want your life to be, the message of your life, and to think that it's. Resilient, or it's brave or it's strong, and think about those core values each day as a way to live your life. in my book, you're a to Die for Life. I talk about not just writing to-do lists every day, but writing a to die list with the things that you want to have done. That will help you to aim yourself at your best self at the end of your life. And so when people create to die list and they write down a core value plus a habit, they're more likely to do it. it's called identity based habit. So if you think to yourself, I'm a resilient person, and so I am going to turn what happened to me into a podcast, or I am going to turn what happened into me into this, and you link it with a core value, you're more likely to do that habit than without the core value because our brain believes identity is destiny. So for example, if somebody thinks. I am sloppy. They're gonna be sloppy. If somebody thinks I am neat, they're gonna be neat. So if you own the core values that you wanna be and you think about them often and you write them down, I am strong. And so I. I am resilient and so I, I am hopeful. And so I, and write these down on your to die list of who you want to become. By the time it's the end of your life, that's who you're gonna be known for than you're more likely to live a life like that

Angela Kennecke: 12:48

Karen's new book, Your To Die for Life isn't just filled with eye-opening research. It's full of practical ways to live more intentionally. She even includes unique assignments like writing your own eulogy and doing a life audit to help you reflect on what really matters.

Karen Salmansohn: 13:09

It's very philosophical. Somebody I gave an advanced copy to said, wow, you're kind of like a. Like a 21st century philosopher. It's very much about the philosophy of why are we here? What is the meaning of life? How do you create a meaningful life? and even like I write more philosophically, but then I do have tools and I do have some journaling exercises in it, but there are tools in there because it's one thing to philosophize and it's another thing. Okay, well just give me some things that I can do. So for example, in my book, I have one tool that I do monthly and I call it my marble mortality jar. And I'm, right now, I'm 64, I'm gonna be 65 in August. but I have a late life moms. So, I know this is weird math, but I have a 14-year-old son I promised him I was gonna do everything I could to live to a hundred. He asked me to live to 200, but I bargained him down and he accepted my counter offer. So I'm telling him, okay, a hundred, let's go for it. My mom is 93,

Angela Kennecke: 14:15

Oh, so good chances with the genes there that, yeah.

Karen Salmansohn: 14:18

So the mortality marble jar. I figured it out and I had, at the time that I started it 427 marbles, left to live of the months 4, 427 months that I represent with marbles, and I put it in a jar and then I had an empty jar next to it. And every month I remove a marble and I think about how did I spend this marble? Did I? Was I, and then I think about the core values I want my life to be about and you know, the things that I want to do. And I ask myself, questions about, did I communicate my love to people or just try to coast on sending them heart emojis in a text? Or did I talk to them in deep ways? Like what you talked about, having deeper conversations. Is actually research says meaningful relationships are one of the keys to a truly well-lived life. So you've been awakened by this experience to be discerning about your relationships and really value only relationships that you do feel are meaningful. I have a feeling after something like what you went through.

Angela Kennecke: 15:28

Yeah, I think, most people who've been through a traumatic loss like that. Of a child or somebody very close to them. Superficial things kind of lose

Karen Salmansohn: 15:37

Yes.

Angela Kennecke: 15:38

Like you don't wanna engage in that. You just don't have time for that.

Karen Salmansohn: 15:40

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 15:41

so superficial relationships, superficial worries kind of go by the wayside because you've been in such deep pain. You don't really have time for that anymore. And I think a lot about my own death now where I didn't, before I lost my daughter. When, death touches you that closely, it forces you to think about your own death and, and that's not always a bad thing. You're saying That's a good thing I.

Karen Salmansohn: 16:04

that part is a really good thing because you're living a far more deep, rich, vulnerable, meaningful, authentic life this way. And it was my dad's passing, that was my wake up call to actually become a mother. So when my dad passed, I was like, in workaholic mode still with my books and my writing and all of that. And then when he passed I, I was like, oh my God. We are finite. Like we are like, you know, this is not a forever thing.

Angela Kennecke: 16:34

to an end.

Karen Salmansohn: 16:34

And I thought you know, I wanted a family, but I kept putting it off and my dad's passing was like, kind of like, I joke, was like death is an excellent alarm clock. It just like wakes you up. And because of his passing, I took having a family. Much more seriously. And up, my son was born on the exact day that my dad passed, but four years later, to me, it's like a wink from my dad, you know? But it, it was because of the jolt of this, like, what am I doing and how am I wasting my time? So I really do think that mortality awareness. Creates urgency, and urgency creates action. When you're aware our lives are finite, which they are, and we know this sort of like back here, but when it's pushed here, we take more action. We're brave or we're bolder. We speak our truths more. We don't waste time on the nonsense, and that's a beautiful way to live.

Angela Kennecke: 17:33

Yes.'cause we are running out of time. We all are

Karen Salmansohn: 17:35

We all are.

Angela Kennecke: 17:36

You only have so much time to get the things done that you value and that are important to you. But I think in today's world, we're so busy and so distracted, right? So you can spend so much time scrolling. We all have our to-do lists, like you said, you know, they're so long and we're not thinking about the overall arching picture of our life and. What we want our life to mean in the end.

Karen Salmansohn: 18:01

we're distracted. We're on our phones all the time. Where our minds are elsewhere, you know, it's near life experience. We're kind of life adjacent. We're not deeply enough in our lives.

Angela Kennecke: 18:14

Well, yeah. When we're on social media, we're not living in reality. Right.

Karen Salmansohn: 18:18

a

Angela Kennecke: 18:18

living in a non-life

Karen Salmansohn: 18:19

It is a non-life. So my book is for people that are stuck in a near life experience. They're not fully feet on the ground, eyes in front of them, ears completely open, aware of their life and the people in it and what they want. You know, so that was my goal, to wake people up the way that I felt woken up. and that was the marble mortality jar. It's in my kitchen. I see it all the time, and it's like a visual reminder. And every month when I take those marbles out and I plunk them in the empty jar, which is now filling up, and then I think. What do I wanna do with my marble next month? And I know like the marble jar is like an accountability buddy. Like it keeps me really living true to what I want my life to be about.

Angela Kennecke: 19:08

And you're planting the seed for the next month, then

Karen Salmansohn: 19:11

Yeah, it's in the back of my mind. It's in the kitchen every time I walk in. It's also a great dieting tool. I'm like, uhoh, should I eat that? You know, because you know, it's like I want to lift to a hundred, you know, so I have to follow. I. the practice is, and that's again with core values. It's like I am strong so I eat in a healthy way. Like the more you link anything that you want for your life to a core value and you mush it together in an identity based state the more likely you're gonna live a life like that.

Angela Kennecke: 19:43

For those who are newly grieving. hard to think about what you want in life. I remember immediately after my daughter died and some years have passed now, I thought, oh my gosh, I have to live maybe 20 or 30 years without her. I don't, I don't wanna do that. so when you're in the, early stages of grief, it's really hard to think you're resilient, to think you'll ever be happy again. Maybe all you do think about is death. Do you have any advice for people who are newly grieving?

Karen Salmansohn: 20:15

Yes. Well, grief is a process and Not exactly the same situation, but it was something that I did. I had a very devastating breakup with somebody that I was, you know, thinking about marrying, having a family with earlier, and then I. did not happen and I thought, oh my God, I have to start all over and I could not imagine starting all over. And I was afraid I wasn't gonna be able to have a child because of this. So I thought I'm gonna give myself a year to recover. I. And I created a journal where I wrote down how I would feel each month because it was unrealistic to just go, oh yeah, everything's gonna be fine. Plan B is gonna be fantastic. So I kind of imagined my future with the healing process over a year. I. And I even told myself if it wasn't a year, that was fine, but I thought, okay, let me give myself this goal in a year from now how I wanna feel. And then I kind of wrote out a slower healing process for each month. And then I could start to imagine that it is possible than in a year from now. I will feel better. So I, I feel that helps to be gentle with yourself because if you try to think, why am I not fine now? And it's like a month later or two months later, of course you're not, you know, but if you say, is it possible to heal a little bit over a course of a year? And even if a year doesn't even feel long enough, just even say two years. What are the stages? How can I feel and fill it in? I think that that's very helpful for people.

Angela Kennecke: 21:51

Yeah. What I hear you say is that you are kind to yourself in all of this

Karen Salmansohn: 21:55

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 21:56

with yourself, and I think so many people are not. Right. We're our own worst critics. We're the hardest on ourselves, and then also society really expects us to be okay.

Karen Salmansohn: 22:07

Yeah,

Angela Kennecke: 22:08

Be happy again. Be okay.

Karen Salmansohn: 22:10

yeah. And the more you can do things that bring you joy, like fan, those little embers of joy in your life and things that build up your self-esteem or things that are connecting with other people that you feel get you those little moments, those pockets of joy and love and support. It can help you to rise up slowly. You The worst thing is to just isolate and not allow yourself to do the things that could potentially jumpstart joy in your life.

Angela Kennecke: 22:50

Right. And the temptation, I think is to isolate or to push your feelings down and

Karen Salmansohn: 22:55

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 22:55

them, and that creates its own set of problems.

Karen Salmansohn: 22:59

Yes, definitely. and also creative outlets of all kinds are really good because they're a release. I know a lot of people that have like, taken up writing or painting or singing or, you know, things like that are, very cathartic to do things where you can express yourself even if it isn't fully through words.

Angela Kennecke: 23:19

I'm a writer. I started writing a blog after my daughter died, and I found that so many people could relate to it, who are going through something similar, I would just lay it out there, sort of bear my soul on the page, I wrote a lot the first few years, and now I write, I still write the blog, but it's transformed or it's transitioned in the same way that my journey and my grief has. You can check out my blog along with the latest news headlines surrounding substance use disorder and the opioid epidemic by heading over to the Emily's Hope website. Emily's Hope Charity. There's a link in the show notes, and while you're there, don't forget to rate and review this episode and please share it with someone that you know needs to hear it today. As one of the nation's strongest financial organizations, first Premier Bank and Premier Bank Card have the strength to do good. We support nearly 700 organizations and nonprofits. Our employees give more than 30,000 volunteer hours annually, and we are continually seeking ways to make South Dakota an even better place to live. It's the premier way, first Premier Bank and Premier Bank card.

Karen Salmansohn: 24:38

there's another tool in my book that might be interesting to you and your people It's something called chronological mapping. I don't know if you've ever heard of this. It's in my book the Year to Die for Life One, and it's life review therapy based with chronological mapping. And what you do is you get a big roll of paper. Like, there's butcher paper that's just like a giant roll. they sell it like in art supply stores like the.

Angela Kennecke: 25:07

Yeah.

Karen Salmansohn: 25:07

Spread it out. And then you look at your life and you put down moments that things happened and with a line and dots, and you write it out and you do a chronological map of your life and try to understand the lessons that you're supposed to learn, any patterns that you see, the good that came from it, the zigzags of what things were, and even assign yourself these words, which might be very hard at first, but eventually. They could be supportive words. The assignment, the bridge, the gift. What were some of the things that came from the challenges of your life that led you to something else? So you can see the full chronological map of your life. And to see that there's more over there on that side of the paper that you have left to fill. And rather than just looking at. The pain that's, capturing your attention.

Angela Kennecke: 26:07

What a great suggestion. I think that could be really beneficial for people to take the time to sit down and to map it out like that. How many of

Karen Salmansohn: 26:14

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 26:15

Would do that on our own right without the prompt or the suggestion to do it and to visually see.

Karen Salmansohn: 26:20

That's what helps when you visually see it and you see, my God, there's a lot of paper left over there. How am I gonna fill that? You know? And you have to just get yourself excited about your vision for the future, you know? And again, it's a stop and swap. it really does work. It's harder to just stop an emotion or stop a thought. You have to give your brain something else to chew on, something else to get excited about, to think about.

Angela Kennecke: 26:49

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And I think it could be very beneficial for listeners of this podcast, and I think if you're listening to this, you should share it with those, you know Who have experienced loss, or any kind of loss. You talk about a breakup that's a loss. So, so share this podcast with your friends and family because these things can be really beneficial. I think just taking the time out of our busy lives to really examine them. What you're talking about is a life examination.

Karen Salmansohn: 27:16

Absolutely. That's what I think that we are so distracted. We're in our near life experience and we're not taking time for contemplation. contemplation can, can really wake you up to know the life that you wanna live, the core values you wanna embrace, And you live a better life that way. If when we're human blurs and running around and not taking the time for contemplation, then we're not gonna live as deeply. We're not gonna live the lives that we want. We're gonna live on autopilot. It and life is not meant to live on it. That's where you get into the near life experience. So you have to take the time for contemplation, which is why I do have a lot of journaling exercises in my book, I think of like journaling as like. Taking selfies of the soul.

Angela Kennecke: 28:04

Hmm. I like, that.

Karen Salmansohn: 28:06

right? Like you're writing and you have to do it by hand. I'm not big like write in like your computer. I think you need a pen and paper study show that you think differently when you're writing with a panel and paper than you do when you're typing at a keyboard. And journaling is sort of like. Instead of writing what, you know, you write what you didn't know, that you knew that, you know, you know, you have let that stuff rise up.

Angela Kennecke: 28:33

Karen has now written more than 25 books for adults and tweens selling more than 2 million books and courses. Her work has been covered by many national platforms ranging from the New York Times to The Today Show to InStyle Magazine.

Karen Salmansohn: 28:52

I started off in advertising, but that's another story. And then I quit because I decided I really wanted to write books and I'm really glad I did. And so one of my first bigger sellers was how to be Happy, damnit, which my agent thought I was nuts to do at the time.'cause this was back in the nineties and nobody had curse words in book titles. Now it's like everybody throws curse words and damn it doesn't even sound.

Angela Kennecke: 29:15

you're right. I mean I never thought about that, but you're right.

Karen Salmansohn: 29:18

Yeah, she thought I was nuts, but I was like, in my craw, I was like, no, I can see this book. And then I art directed the whole book. I'm a designer as well as a writer, and I saw it with like design and stylized images and stuff like that. And it came out and was Urban Outfitters bestselling book for a couple years in a row on one of those tables back in the nineties. And then it sold all around the world. I think it, in total, that one sold about 250,000 copies.

Angela Kennecke: 29:44

That's amazing. So what have you learned from that book? How to Be Happy, dammit to this latest book that you just put out, you're To Die For Life. what have you learned in between? Did you have anything maybe that you thought you knew, that you didn't know?

Karen Salmansohn: 30:00

Back when I was younger, I've always loved humor. I started off telling you that I read the Mad Magazine with the Psychology Today. I think I might have used humor sometimes a little bit, Too much. And now I am just sprinkling it in just enough. And when I look back at my older books, I see somebody I like now. It's their poignant humor. And I think that's the difference with this book. This book goes deeper. And I think on my other books, maybe were still deep, but the formula was like, now it's like now with 20% less humor, you know, or something like, it's still funny. But there's a lot of depth in this book. This is the book that if I could meet everybody in the world for a cup of coffee this is what I would share with them over coffee. This, you're to die for life. And really it is focusing on our own mortality. And I've, heard some spiritual gurus say they meditate on their own deaths, and

Angela Kennecke: 31:01

I've, I've never done that. But you know, it's something that a lot of people don't wanna think about. I don't mind thinking about it. I think after loss. You maybe think about it more. For people who are wary of thinking about their own deaths, what would you say to them?

Karen Salmansohn: 31:17

You have to face it head on. Otherwise, it's just an abstract thought. You know, most people haven't experienced death close up and personal. It is an abstract thought and the more you can really own it, that's why in the book I have a lot, a range of different exercises. I have, what I call death meditations in the morning to do. But they're beautiful. they're not depressing. I have a choice of eight different ones. And even in evening practice for it to think about it, you pick, you don't have to do everything. Your life doesn't have to be loaded up. It's sort of like, you could try this. Oh, don't like that one. Try this. and then I also recommend people write their own eulogies. And I've done that for myself, and that's not even morbid. It's sort of like people write their mission statements for their business. People have vision boards, you know, but this is like the ultimate mission statement. It's for your life, and then you can really clearly see current you versus aspirational eulogy u. And then look at the gaps in between, and that's where you fill it up with writing your to die list every day, because you could do everything on your to-do list and get to the end of your life and go, oops, you know? Because a to-do list just keeps you busy. It's like productivity machine and a meaningful life is not a productivity machine life. It is thinking about your core values, having meaningful relationships, meaningful conversations, meaningful work feeling like you have meaning and purpose and that you're being of service and leaving a legacy. These, these are the things that when you get to your end of your life, you'll feel like, okay, you know, five star review.

Angela Kennecke: 33:04

I think that's where our culture, our society gets it backwards. Right? Busyness is a sign that you're important, that you are living this really, you know, productive life, but it could be empty.

Karen Salmansohn: 33:16

Very empty. And that is why a lot of people are miserable because they're in beast mode and this hustle bustle, and that's like the regrets of the dying when they get to the end of the life,

Angela Kennecke: 33:28

I wish I didn't work so much. That's

Karen Salmansohn: 33:30

Hello. Yes, I wish I had spent more time with my friends. I wish I had let myself be happy. I wish I had expressed myself more In the book, I look at the most common, the most common regrets of the dying. And then I reverse engineer them and help people to figure out. Okay, how do we apply regret, resistant sealant to your life so you don't have those regrets when you get there. And I give people things to add to their to die list. Things that they can do each day to make sure they don't die with those common regrets.

Angela Kennecke: 34:03

What are some of the other regrets besides, you know, I wish I hadn't worked so much.

Karen Salmansohn: 34:08

I wish I hadn't worked so much. I wish I had let myself be happier. I wish I had expressed myself. A lot of people you know, their inner monologue and outer dialogue or, or. Not the same, you know? But I also think the ones that aren't talked about that I put in are I wish that I had been more of service that I had done something left legacy of some kind, because really. That is how we feel like you left your, was here, mark on this planet. Like you did something that there was meaning and purpose in your life. And I think that maybe that's not listed as one of the most common, but I'm sure it probably is one of the more common ones. It's just not part of that, the usual group that people, you know, talk about.

Angela Kennecke: 34:57

I have always found it's helpful to think about a hundred years from now, is anybody gonna even know who I am?

Karen Salmansohn: 35:04

Yes.

Angela Kennecke: 35:05

any of this? What is gonna be left from what I'm doing now, a hundred years from now? And then when I, if I get worried about something or caught up in some drama that's going on, whatever it might be, I think, is this gonna matter? You know, in five minutes, in five years, in 10 years, in a hundred years? And I kind of go through that and think about it.

Karen Salmansohn: 35:24

that's a great practice to do. You know, when my, dad died something really, unusual happened the day that he died, which we didn't know was gonna be the day he died. He was in the hospital. My mother came to the hospital to meet me there and she said, Karen, I found this in your dad's. Um. Bureau it was something that I had sent him when I was in college and it was a couple pages from a book that I had read and I'd mounted to him. And when I read it, it was oddly synchronic to think about on the same day that somebody passes. And then he did pass that day. And I'm gonna share it with you because it's about what you're talking about. It's about leaving ripples. And I don't have the paper anymore, the two pages, but I kind of slightly memorized it and I remember how it began. It said um, everything that is not given is lost. I don't know the name of the book, otherwise I would credit it. Everything that is not given is lost. Every thought, every feeling, every piece of artwork, every, you know, little thing about you obviously I didn't memorize entirely is lost unless you give it to others. If you hoard yourself and hold back. Then you're making very little ripple into the world. But the more that you give of yourself, the bigger ripple that you leave, like a pebble in a pond. And so share of yourself, give to others because that will be passed on not only to that person, but the person who that person meets, the person who that person meets, like an endless ripple into the universe. So as you live your life, think about the kind of ripples that you wanna live

Angela Kennecke: 37:10

That is a beautiful, beautiful thought. I absolutely love it. It's, really what I think about every day. I always wanna be of service, and I say helping others also helps me. It does more for

Karen Salmansohn: 37:22

Yes.

Angela Kennecke: 37:22

anything else I could do, and especially helps me with grief.

Karen Salmansohn: 37:26

It does. It really does because happiness studies say that acts of altruism create the strongest happiness, and I think it's because it tap in a couple of things that create happiness. One is. Connection to others. Meaningful relationships creates happiness. So when you're altruistic and giving back and being of service, you're connecting to others. The other thing is to be happier, they say do actions your soul is proud of when you're doing something that improves your self-esteem or your sense of self. And giving back and being of service does that, you know, and then it gives your life meaning and purpose. So being of service is, definitely one of the best things you can do if you're dealing with a loss or challenge, a trauma of some kind and unjust for the overall arc of your life.

Angela Kennecke: 38:19

right. It doesn't have to be a, a huge traumatic event. We're all dealing with something, right. Everyone is dealing with different things

Karen Salmansohn: 38:26

Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 38:27

Yeah. I just, I wanna thank you so much for writing these amazing and often funny books and I'm really excited to share, this podcast with all of our listeners and your latest book and we'll put links to it in the show notes of this episode as well. That's a wonderful gift to the world. That's how you give back, right?

Karen Salmansohn: 38:47

it does give me a sense of, um. meaning and purpose to feel like this could touch lives. Yes, it does. It does.

Angela Kennecke: 38:56

Of course. I think it will. And I think we've all learned something on this podcast today from you too. So, so thank you for that.

Karen Salmansohn: 39:03

Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

Angela Kennecke: 39:08

Thank you for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. Join us every week for a new enlightening conversation. But until then, you can check out hundreds of previous episodes on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. We've also included links in the show notes to a few episodes we think that you'll really connect with, including our conversation with Dr. Gladys McGarry, widely known as the mother of holistic medicine. I was honored to speak with this wise and inspirational woman before she died in 2024 at the age of 103. It's truly a life-changing conversation.

Dr. Gladys McGarey: 39:47

You know, life's hard and you get stuck in places if you allow yourself, but you don't need to get stuck in those places. Those are areas that are painful to me. It's like if I cut my arm and have a scab there and spend the time picking at that scab and saying, this thing hurts, it will never heal. But if I look at it and say, oh, hello. And do treat it the way it needs to be treated. Sooner or later I'm going to lift up my arm and look at it and say, oh, hello Scar. I know who you are. You know, it's that kind of of a reality that we hang onto what it is that we really at that moment are experiencing, and there's the whole attitude of not allowing ourselves to get stuck. Something that just doesn't matter. You know, somebody says something nasty and we take it in and say, oh, that hurts me so bad, and we really can hang on to something like that. And sometimes they're mean things or we can just let it go.

Angela Kennecke: 40:59

You can find a link to that episode, which is really, truly wonderful in the show notes. We hope you'll join us again next week. Until then, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg, king and Marley Miller.