Nicolas Getz: 0:07

when I pictured a drug addict, I thought of someone you know, who was panhandling on the side of the street. In 50 shades of Brown clothing

Angela Kennecke: 0:20

The way people imagine addiction and what it actually looks like are often two very different things. That was true for Nicholas Getz growing up, but in his 20s, he learned firsthand that substance use disorder, which affects nearly 49 million Americans or 17 percent of the population, can happen To anyone

Nicolas Getz: 0:41

I felt guilty. I knew, I consciously knew every time I was doing something wrong. That it was wrong and that I was hurting my family. I was hurting myself. I was hurting my chances at getting back on track.

Angela Kennecke: 0:58

and this episode of grieving out loud, Nick opens up about his path to opioid addiction, how he was able to reach recovery and important insights for loved ones, supporting someone battling substance use disorder.

Nicolas Getz: 1:11

I want people to know that you can do it. you need help. Everyone needs help. You can't do it on your own.

Angela Kennecke: 1:22

Welcome to grieving out loud. I'm your host, Angela Kennecke. Before we start this powerful conversation, I want to take a moment to speak directly to anyone struggling with substance use disorder. Please know, help is available, and you don't have to face this alone. Addiction is a disease, just like diabetes or heart disease, and there's no shame in seeking the support you need. You can find a list of helpful resources on our website, emilyshope. charity. We've posted a link in the show notes of this episode. Nicholas didn't think twice about his substance use in college. After all, many of his classmates were drinking and using marijuana too. But looking back now, he sees it as the first step down a dark path into addiction.

Nicolas Getz: 2:20

I was a, a weekend drinker. I feel like it all starts with alcohol and marijuana. If you're, willing to kind of experiment and everyone else is experimenting with you,

Angela Kennecke: 2:35

In addition to drinking and using marijuana, Nick also got prescriptions for Adderall from a doctor. I assume you had a prescription for it because you needed it. Did you need it?

Nicolas Getz: 2:46

Well, that's a good question. And I still don't know. I, I know that I went to the, I knew that it was a stimulant and I just went into my primary care physician I told him that I had trouble focusing at school.'cause I was, working full time and going to school at night. He gave me this questionnaire. It was like a 75 questions of like one, not very often, four very often. So I knew I wanted Adderall, so I manipulated the answers. Um, And I did feel like it helped me. Obviously. I mean, it, it does help you focus. But as far as like if I have A-D-H-D-I I know I was tested for it, not to my knowledge, when I was in like third or fourth grade, and they, determined that did not have a DHD, but I knew how to get it.

Angela Kennecke: 3:41

Then, Nick was offered another drug, one that seemed harmless at the time. He thought nothing of taking a prescription pill from a friend. After all, if a doctor had prescribed it, how bad could it be? But as we know now, OxyContin is anything but harmless. In fact, it's heroin in a pill.

Nicolas Getz: 4:04

I was also a bartender and a barista, so my social circle was really large. One of my friends who was in the Air Force had like multiple back surgeries and he was prescribed, Oxycodone hydrochloride. uh, Like what year would this have been? so the first time I, took an Oxy 30 was probably twenty twelve

Angela Kennecke: 4:35

so before people were really talking about the dangers of maybe just starting to talk about the dangers of opioids and some of the prescriptions that were out there.

Nicolas Getz: 4:45

Yeah, which is interesting. It was, so, it was before Purdue Pharma was under the microscope. But it was interesting looking back because. They were really available. Even in Idaho, there were specialized pain clinics and if you had an MRI or some sort of chronic pain thing they definitely overprescribed because my friend was getting, I think he was prescribed nine Oxy thirties a day, Which is unreal. And he told me that if he took all of those, he would feel like a zombie. so I started trading my Adderall for some of his oxys.

Angela Kennecke: 5:32

Nick still vividly remembers the first time he took an OxyContin. He was hooked instantly, and he's not alone. Many other guests on Grieving Out Loud have shared the very same experience.

Nicolas Getz: 5:45

Within 15 to 20 minutes, you literally cannot have a bad day. nothing bothers you. You could be at work and it's just like, it's an optimistic pill. it helps you see the sunny side of everything. You don't get annoyed with anybody. You feel more social. it literally felt like the limitless pill.

Angela Kennecke: 6:12

I don't think everyone reacts that

Nicolas Getz: 6:14

No. No. and I was, I was gonna say with talking to people, it seems like it's three things. It either makes you really, really tired or nauseous, or it makes you feel amazing.

Angela Kennecke: 6:27

Yeah, it must be just the way our chemical makeups are. Right? So like when I remember taking Oxycodone, they used to prescribe it like after I had my first child. Right? and I just remember it making me tired. That's only thing I remember. I don't remember any sort of euphoria or anything. Of course I didn't try to abuse it, but if you're just checking like one or two or something, and you're having this great experience, that wasn't my experience,

Nicolas Getz: 6:50

Yeah. That's interesting. Do you remember the M were prescribed?

Angela Kennecke: 6:54

no, it's been so many years. I don't, I don't I guess I'm fortunate that I haven't been through any major surgeries or needed any medications like that, but that is often how it starts. And like many people who started using OxyContin during the beginning of the opioid epidemic, Nick never thought he would suffer from substance use disorder.

Nicolas Getz: 7:16

I always felt like I was going to be in control of it. I knew Things out there were addicting. And when I pictured a drug addict, I thought of someone you know, who was panhandling on the side of the street. In 50 shades of Brown clothing. And just totally, totally separate from how I pictured myself. I didn't realize that I was going down that same exact path. And I actually it was like a single moment, when I realized that I maybe had a problem. It was after one of my trades with my friend and I went through like 10 or 15 of them within like a. I remember when I ran out and after that week, I called him and asked if he had any more, he said, no, he didn't. And I was like, man, I just feel like, I feel like crap. I feel like I have the flu, I'm depressed and this and that, and all the things. he said, man, I think you might be. Dependent on it. And then he asked me if I wanted him to cut back on, our Deal that we were doing every month. And I told him no. I was like, absolutely not. he was like the first person that actually threw the red flag and offered. A solution. And I told him no. and I had to kind of manipulate him into letting him know that, no, I'm totally okay with taking more. I don't have a problem. Everything's good.

Angela Kennecke: 9:06

Can you explain withdrawal for the listener? Because I think it's really hard to understand.'cause in addition to, like you can imagine having the flu, like anybody can imagine that, but isn't there also kind of a psychological break that goes on.

Nicolas Getz: 9:20

Yes. Okay. So the best way I can describe it is the first thing you notice is that, yeah, it feels like you have the flu. And then the second thing is that not only you have the flu, but you are so super depressed to the point where you don't want to get out. You don't even know how to be a human. Like, I remember literally thinking like, okay, all I need to do is like. Get myself up and get going and just start doing something. But I didn't even know, like I didn't have the energy to shower, I didn't have an appetite. I didn't want to talk to anybody. In that stage, like you definitely contemplate suicide. But you don't have the energy to even try to commit suicide. it's the worst feeling ever. what you get from Oxy is such a short lived thing. And then what it takes from you is just agonizing.

Angela Kennecke: 10:26

And I would imagine, and I've heard other people say this, that it's just like a desperation to get more, to get rid of that feeling and, and to feel better. And the only solution to feel better and, and to get away from that feeling other than. Sticking through it, right is to get more, right. just a motivation to get more.

Nicolas Getz: 10:44

Yep. That's actually, that's how I got my felony charge. This was when I didn't have a job. I was in and out of my mom's house.

Angela Kennecke: 10:55

what did your family think during this time? I mean, obviously you're needing more and more, you're still taking pills at this point.

Nicolas Getz: 11:01

Yeah. Yeah.

Angela Kennecke: 11:03

what did your family do? Say? How did they react? Did they know?

Nicolas Getz: 11:07

I mean, yeah. They, they just didn't know what to do. they knew. I had trouble holding down a job. I always manipulated for money. my mom would. Money to fill up my car. and I would tell her I would put $25 in and I would actually only put $5 in and get $20 cash back, and she demanded a receipt from me I would take a picture of the receipt and I would erase the cash back transaction. I would basically Photoshop that. I put the full amount in just to get 20 bucks. But yeah, my family just, they just held on for dear life. They didn't know what to do.

Angela Kennecke: 11:56

It is really hard for families as a, family member. When know when I was going through some things with my daughter, I just, I am trying everything right and I'm just desperate. I'm sure your mom was too. You know, I just, you just don't know and you make so many mistakes you do things certain people tell you to do and that doesn't work. And it just seems like it's just, it's such a difficult situation for How do you look at that now? I mean, you look at obviously when you were in the midst of your use. You're manipulating things. You're looking to get what you need, what you want, what your, you know, body and your mind is craving, not probably thinking about the effect on your loved ones.

Nicolas Getz: 12:36

Yeah, , that's what's crazy about it, is , you obviously still have a, a conscience, but the, physiological needs for that, that chemical dependency. The screams are way louder on that end of things than your conscience. I felt guilty. I knew, I consciously knew every time I was doing something wrong. That it was wrong and that I was hurting my family. I was hurting myself. I was hurting my chances at getting back on track. it's not that I didn't care. It's that I just needed to feel better.

Angela Kennecke: 13:18

That makes me so sad. And I also think I've said this for a long time, I think that nobody needs to shame. I say the addict or the person suffering from substance use disorder because you, you feel so much shame yourself. Like you said, you knew, you knew this wasn't a healthy thing for you or it wasn't great for your relationships with your family. But yet the overwhelming need, the dependency overrides all of that. So have you been able to forgive yourself?

Nicolas Getz: 13:44

Um,

Angela Kennecke: 13:45

That's a good question. I've been clean now for three and a half years, almost four years, and what I realized that I'm running into now is the same issues that I had before, like with my level of confidence. I have like a terrible case of imposter syndrome. Any job that I get, I feel like I'm not qualified. Like, they're gonna find out that I'm not as good as my resume portrayed me as, and it's only a matter of time until I get fired. So I'm running into those issues that I remember like, oh, these are those feelings that I was trying to escape when I started using, and now I'm having to figure out new ways to. Overcome those because I know I've already been down the road of what happens when you use and it's, prison or, or overdose Or death. Yeah, death. Right. And it's so interesting you say that to me because. I've talked to a lot of people who suffer from substance use disorder, and I could even see a little bit of this in my daughter. And I actually wrote a book about a guy who suffered from alcoholism. And later on went on to rebuild his life. But he talked about this deep, deep insecurity from the time when he was really young. And that I've talked to so many people that said, and then when I tried this substance, I felt like I found my answer.

Nicolas Getz: 15:12

Oh, like literally nailed it. It literally, your insecurities. Are gone , with opiates., it's incredible. The feeling is it's heavenly, but the trade off is not worth it.

Angela Kennecke: 15:28

Right., the trade off is horrible. You pay a huge, huge price.

Speaker: 15:33

Are you passionate about keeping kids safe and informed? Emily's Hope is proud to introduce our K through five substance use prevention curriculum designed to educate young minds about the dangers of substance use. This engaging program lays the foundation for a healthy future. Visit emily's hope edu.org to learn more and help bring this vital resource to your local schools. Encourage your school administrators and counselors to explore our curriculum today. It's part of our mission. Together we can make a difference.

Angela Kennecke: 16:12

Like many who start abusing OxyContin, Nick eventually turned to heroin, a drug he never imagined that he would ever use.

Nicolas Getz: 16:21

I met a guy who was a taxi driver who also sold pills and. When I was out one day, , I didn't have any pills. I couldn't do my trade with my one friend. He told me I don't have any oxy, but I do have some black and it's really good. I came to another fork in the road of like, how low will I go And, I quickly got over that and I just asked him if I can snort it. Like if it was able to be snorted.' I wasn't using a needle yet. And so he told me that, yes, it, can be snorted. You're not gonna get as great a feeling as using an iv. And I was like, no, I don't. I don't wanna use a needle.

Angela Kennecke: 17:07

But that soon changed, and Nick found himself in a debilitating fight with substance use disorder. He dropped 40 pounds, and says he didn't just feel like he lost weight, But also, his soul.

Nicolas Getz: 17:22

If I didn't have a place to stay, I was living in my car. Just everything was just focused on getting high. And my social circle, that was a big thing I was in a couple of relationships where we were extremely codependent, we both used together, even though , we wanted the best for each other, and we knew we were. Down bad. like, I didn't have enough separation from my social circle to kind of see the bigger picture of like what I was doing and I didn't have a game plan

Angela Kennecke: 17:59

Nick tried to turn things around by going to a methadone clinic, hoping the medication assisted treatment would help him quit heroin. While it did help Nick stop using opioids, the pull of illicit drugs. was too strong.

Nicolas Getz: 18:14

I met someone at the methadone clinic that had a meth pipe on him, and so I tried it. And that was that. I mean, it just, it basically added to the euphoria , because with methadone, you don't get, that same feeling I supplemented methadone with meth basically to feel higher because I didn't feel like I was done with drugs.

Angela Kennecke: 18:48

Oh, and why not? Why do you think that is? Can you an kind of analyze yourself or where you were at that point in

Nicolas Getz: 18:55

Yeah. Yeah, I just didn't have a job. I I felt like the, the road that I had to travel to get off of drugs , there were too many obstacles in the way.

Angela Kennecke: 19:07

But soon, Nick wouldn't have any option but to stop using drugs. He was arrested and sentenced to prison for stealing from a former employer.

, Nicolas Getz: 19:17

before I was in full blown addiction, I had a job at Whole Foods they had a restaurant upstairs called the River Room where you could order food and we had beer on tap and wine bottles that you could buy in the store. It was like a little spot for people to have lunch. fast forward five years, no job. I'm in the throes of addiction. I realized that all of the registers. Get filled at the same time. But nobody is upstairs setting up the bar until about 10 in the morning. And so I would go in the store after they opened and go upstairs and open the register and, clear it out. I tried it a second time and that's when I got caught. And I actually, I didn't get arrested on the spot. they told me they were calling the cops and I, I left the store and like two or three months later is when I found out I had a, a warrant for burglary that was one of those times where I felt like I had no other option to get money to then buy drugs.

Angela Kennecke: 21:04

Nick was put on probation and had to do regular drug tests, which he kept failing. Because of that, he had to go to prison, which surprisingly, he says, was just what he needed., Nicolas Getz: going to jail kind of and then the next step, but it's really, it's not like the movies. It's actually, I mean, I, I had a really good time in prison actually, which sounds Really, that does sound weird.

Nicolas Getz: 21:34

But it feels like summer camp. It feels like you're just hanging out with the boys kind of, and if you mess around, like if you break any of these rules, you'll get privileges taken away. So they're extremely strict on the rules. But if you end up following the rules, you get a little more freedom., it's like a little sliver of society where, some people wanna do good, some people want to do bad. And you can kind of tell the judge of character that you've built up your whole life. You can, you can see the ones that They have the victim mentality. And then you know, they're always blaming their PO or the cops for pulling them over and, oh, I I can't believe I got seven years for an empty baggie. And it's like, I. What was in that empty baggie, you know? And how many times did you not get caught? the, , the mentality of people in prison are, it's, it's interesting, but, but the reason why I had such a good time was because I put in a lot of work in. Planning my recovery and knowing that when I get out, I'm gonna get hit hard with life and I have to be ready for that. And every day I was on the phone talking, talking to my mom, talking to my dad. Planning for , when I get out, I want to immediately jump into outpatient treatment. Like I finally had a plan of action for when I get out, I can hit the ground running and not, let myself relapse apps.

Angela Kennecke: 23:12

does Idaho have good treatment within their prison systems?'cause I know in my state. There isn't necessarily treatment even offered. I mean, most people are locked up in drugs or alcohol, have something to do with it. Right.

Nicolas Getz: 23:26

yeah,

Angela Kennecke: 23:26

but yet they don't get the treatment they need in prison. Is, is that, was that the case in Idaho or was there a program that you worked or something

Nicolas Getz: 23:33

that

Angela Kennecke: 23:33

helped you?

Nicolas Getz: 23:34

yeah. So when they're sentencing you, they kind of, you know, they interview you and they figure out where your issues are. It's called pre-sentence investigation, and they talk to you about your home life, your support systems and this and that. And your addictions. And based on that, as a part of your sentence. They give you classes to take. And granted, , it's, only, it's an hour and a half, two times a week, and it's very simple stuff. Like it doesn't take a lot of time to get the homework done that you need to do, but it's up to you how deep you wanna dig. You know, some people just phone it in and. They're not putting in work to want to be done 'cause they don't want to be done using,

Angela Kennecke: 24:26

what changed for you during that time that made you want to be done?

Nicolas Getz: 24:30

I guess constantly putting my mom in tears so once you're in jail and you come off of everything and the fog begins to lift and you start talking to your family, you realize that it's not a sustainable lifestyle. and it's a very apparent choice. You can either, once you get out, you can go back to what you were doing or you can try something different. And for me I wanted to live up to the potential. That my family saw in me, you know,

Angela Kennecke: 25:11

Nick spent a year and a half in prison, but aside from the very beginning, he wasn't offered medication assisted treatment like Suboxone. Now that's not uncommon. An estimated 15 percent of people entering jails and prisons each year struggle with opioid addiction. Yet according to the American Addiction Centers, most facilities don't offer any medication to ease the painful detox process.\ received some help early on., Nicolas Getz: they allow you to taper By five milligrams at a time every single day, they drop you five milligrams until you're done. But you have to pay to do that. So, thankfully, like my mom can, continues to spoil me. But she, went to the methadone clinic and paid for the amount that I needed to. Come off of it. And they charge you like a, transportation fee or something, some exorbitant amount of money, I'm sure. to send it to the jail for you. Yeah, it really confuses me why systems don't allow medically assisted treatment because all of the studies and everything shows that, you know, people on Suboxone usually do quite well. I mean, I've. done videos with a young mother who's now having her second child and she works a job and she's been on Suboxone and she was using heroin and meth, you know, you described. And five years later, this is what has really saved her life.

Nicolas Getz: 26:45

well real quick, I think with jail the reason why they, they only let you taper and don't continue to use it is because people will find out. Even though you have to take it in front of the person, they'll find out a way to not ingest it and spin it back out and sell it. I'm sure the reason why they don't offer it is because they offered a chance at some point and inmates took advantage of it. So it kind of ruined it for everyone else.

Angela Kennecke: 27:22

In December of 2022, Nick was released from prison, determined to break free from the cycle of addiction. He knew right away he needed a plan to stay in recovery. With hard work, determination, and the support of his family, he's been able to stay away from substances and start a new life.

Nicolas Getz: 27:42

I really have to be as optimistic as possible. And I'm super fortunate for, being alive. And I know that when my mom told me that she submitted stuff to be on this podcast, I mean, she was in tears. It meant a lot for her and she knows. That she very well could have been in the same situation that, that you were in, you know, that you

Angela Kennecke: 28:09

Certainly, yeah, certainly. you could have died

Nicolas Getz: 28:12

Yeah. it's a dice roll. It really is. And I know she's just grateful. I owe it to just. do everything I can in my power.

Angela Kennecke: 28:26

While Nick is optimistic about his life and situation, he acknowledges that having a felony on his record limits his opportunities. But he's not dwelling on that. Instead, he's choosing gratitude.

, Nicolas Getz: 28:40

you don't have as many opportunities as you once did, but can't, let yourself focus on that or, you know, start dwelling on it, I guess.

Angela Kennecke: 28:53

In fact, Nick says he loves his job in the automotive industry. It's the longest he's stuck with one job in eight years. At 36, he's rebuilding his life, not just at work, but with family and friends.

Nicolas Getz: 29:07

I'm starting to make friends that are positive, healthy friendships I'm definitely aware of, you know, if they use substances or not. And I definitely don't put myself in situations that can like trigger me or anything like that. but I feel like where I'm at now, I definitely. If I get triggered, I'm able to really slow myself down and think of the consequences and not just act so impulsively, which is what started me down that path of, full blown addiction. And it really doesn't take much.

Angela Kennecke: 29:47

So what keeps you in recovery, do you think now

Nicolas Getz: 29:50

I don't wanna go back to prison for how, I kind of said that I didn't have a bad time and I really didn't. I met really cool people and I was close with someone who actually two months after we got out, he started using again and he overdosed and died. he just had his like second daughter too, and it was, hearing those stories, keeping up with the people that I was in prison with and knowing which ones are doing good and which ones aren't. I mean, that's what keeps me in recovery now is just the fact that , I've, seen that side of things and I don't wanna go back to it.

Angela Kennecke: 30:32

Looking back, Nick says one of the toughest parts about his battle with substance use disorder was knowing the pain he put his loved ones through. His advice to anyone watching a family member struggle with addiction? Love them and help them get care as soon as possible.

Nicolas Getz: 30:50

be patient with your loved ones. There's no right way, to handle it. And I can't imagine, I, I've never been in a position feel what it's like to have a loved. going through it. and I've heard it's crazy because it's like you know, you love this person so much and you have no control over what they're doing. But I mean, I want people to know that you can do it. you need help. Everyone needs help. You can't do it on your own. but then you have to accept that help. And you have to, you have to consciously make that decision that you are done. And if you slip up, don't beat yourself up. Absolutely. Do not be hard on yourself. Just tell on yourself. That's the first thing you should do if you slip up at all. You have to tell on yourself a loved one, your PO, anyone, and just get back on track, and that's all it takes. That's really all it takes is just be patient with yourself. Don't beat yourself up and just get as much help as you need. It's out there. You just have to look.

Angela Kennecke: 32:01

Well, and I think everyone, and especially loved ones around someone who's suffering from substance use disorder, everybody wants you to be okay now, right? They want you to be okay. They want it to be cured. They don't want you to slip up as you talk about it. And we do know that now, you know, relapse can mean death. I mean, so it is scary. relapse is a part of recovery. I mean, and until our modern day right now, it wasn't a death sentence, but it can be now.

Nicolas Getz: 32:28

yeah, it's it's a wild world out there. I would've never imagined where we're at with like, the nation's drug usage and, all the stuff of the, like where it comes from and all that stuff. I don't even want to get into that, but you just have to give yourself grace, and it is a lot of pressure. You, you feel a lot of pressure to get clean, but it's not, the big mountain that you think It does take time, but it can be done. It really can be done.

Angela Kennecke: 33:01

Yeah, and you're proving that it can be done right? Have you had any relapses in your recovery?

Nicolas Getz: 33:06

No, I tried, some alcohol, like a couple of sips like two years ago, it was at a buddy's house that I worked with, and I went over there for a little bit and. And I just realized that it, I was like, God, it just doesn't, like, it just doesn't do it anymore. I, I I feel like my brain has these new connections, these new pathways like, if I do this, then I feel like this, and then this is the outcome. And I realized like just within a couple of sips that I was like, okay. What is gonna come of this? Like if it feels really good, do I have a bunch more? And then what? And then I feel like this the next day. And then what? So it didn't have the same effect at all. with being clean and sober for how long I have been it gets easier and you're just more removed from it every single day. And sometimes it does take, like, there are days where I get so stressed out and I think about. like getting high and the lack of responsibility. You literally, when you're out running around and trying to find drugs, you have no responsibility other than trying to get high, and sometimes I. I miss that feeling. Sometimes I miss not having responsibilities and only dealing with what I want, but I realize that it's not sustainable and you're just being the most selfish version of yourself.

Angela Kennecke: 34:41

Well, and it's good that you can stop yourself'cause we all have things, right? Like I can get stressed out and eat some chocolate, right? But it's not as harmful you know, going and using heroin or whatever. But everybody gets that, right? We all get that. We all have coping mechanisms. You just have to learn new ones and, and I understand what you're saying, it's just. I'm glad that you're in a better place and that you're healthy. I'm glad for you and for your family, and I really appreciate you sharing your story. Why is it important to you that you share your story?

Nicolas Getz: 35:10

Well, There, there are times I catch myself, depending on like, people that I meet. I'm ashamed that I used to live like that, you know? And me sharing my story, it helps me realize that it's okay that I lived like that and it's okay that I went down that road. And it's also super important for people to hear it. I mean, I encourage everyone that has a story to share it because it's therapeutic, honestly. Like, it, it feels good for me to do it. And I hope somehow story can help someone. But I'm not really thinking like that. I just think it's important that people know that it just, it affects all walks of life no matter who you are.

Angela Kennecke: 36:05

A hundred percent. And I think by sharing your story, you talk about that stigma and that shame that you live with for the fact that you have this disease of the brain and it truly is a disease. And people need to understand that. And I think by talking about it, by taking the anonymous part out of it, right, like. You always hear about 12 step programs and Alcoholics Anonymous, and I'm not saying that's not right for some people, but by talking about it and sharing it, you do reduce the stigma and the shame. think that you do, because like you said, it can happen to anybody and I really appreciate you taking the time to do that today and I know you've helped at least one person. And I always say that our efforts, everything that we do. Sometimes it can seem like it's not doing very much in the world, but I, I just think of that one person that it can help. I, I know that you'll reach someone through this platform. I.

Nicolas Getz: 36:57

I know even, probably on your end I know my mom felt ashamed with sharing. Her side of things with her friends, and I know, addiction. It's just the ugliest, biggest elephant in the room. We have to normalize it, I guess, in a way for people to be like, oh, yeah, okay. Like, I have an issue, you know? Because the more you hide it, the further away you are from recovery.

Angela Kennecke: 37:24

Right. Right. Exactly. Well, thank you and thank you for joining me today. I've really appreciated this conversation you being so open and honest about everything that you've been through. I.

Nicolas Getz: 37:34

Yeah, it was a really good conversation. I appreciate you having me on. I.

Angela Kennecke: 37:39

And thank you for taking the time to learn more about a disease that affects millions of Americans. If you have an idea for a podcast episode, we'd love to hear from you. My contact information is in the show notes. Be sure to tune in next week for a story every parent, grandparent, and really every American needs to hear. Juliana Arnold shares how her 17 year old daughter connected with the man on Instagram who convinced her to come to his house and buy what he told her was a Percocet to help with anxiety. All the while, Juliana believed her daughter was simply out thrift shopping with a friend.

Julianna Arnold: 38:17

She walked out the door, I was at my computer'cause I worked from home. she said, bye mom. And I, I said, wait, wait, wait. And I went out there and I walked half the way down the stairs and we met on the stairs. She said, okay baby, I love you. Be safe. She said, I love you, mom. And she walked out and I had no idea that that was gonna be the last time I would ever see her.

Angela Kennecke: 38:42

Juliana's daughter not only died from fentanyl, but her body was found in a much older man's home. A man who said her 17 year old daughter agreed to have sex with him. Now, Juliana is speaking out with a powerful message as the FBI warns of a rise in violent online networks targeting children. It's a conversation you won't want to miss. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Marley Miller.