Angela Kennecke: 0:07

Sadly, addiction doesn't just affect adults or teens. Every year, more than 20, 000 babies are born dependent on illegal or prescription drugs. That's one baby every 25 minutes.

Jazmin Pedroza: 0:23

Every time I would take it, I would just feel so bad because I knew he was moving inside me and it was just, it was horrible.

Angela Kennecke: 0:31

On today's episode of Grieving Out Loud, we hear from a mother who battled substance use disorder during pregnancy. She opens up about the shame and stigma she felt and how both she and her newborn found the help they needed. They made me feel

Jazmin Pedroza: 0:48

like a person again. They made me feel like I'm a human again, like just because I used, you know. It happens, you know, but I, they didn't judge me, you know, they didn't judge. They've seen past, like, they've seen Jasmine. They've seen Jasmine in recovery. They've seen Jasmine trying to get help.

Tara Sundem: 1:08

This is how I want you to treat my daughter. I want you to like hug her and embrace her and tell her number one, congratulations. Congratulations. Everyone that's pregnant. First thing you hear is congratulations. I'm so excited for you. My families never get told congratulations.

Angela Kennecke: 1:30

I'm Angela Kennecke, your host of Grieving Out Loud. If you or someone you know is struggling with substance use disorder, please seek help immediately. Visit our website at emilyshope. charity for a list of resources. Remember, you have the power to change lives, your own and others Substance use disorder can be hard to understand if you don't suffer from the disease. Some think willpower should be able to pull people out of addiction, but that is rarely the truth. Experts say drugs or alcohol hijack your brain and hook you psychologically and physically into wanting more and more.

Jazmin Pedroza: 2:21

Your body hurts, you're tossing and turning, the lack of sleep, you're cold, you cover yourself, you're then sweating. It's just like the flu times. Yeah, a million. I mean, it's the worst feeling.

Angela Kennecke: 2:40

Jasmine Pedrosa, like so many others, became addicted to opioids after a doctor prescribed her pain medication following a procedure.

Jazmin Pedroza: 2:50

My first surgery was because of my second pregnancy, but my first pregnancy that I lost, the doctors thought she was an ectopic pregnancy. Oh,

Angela Kennecke: 2:59

ectopic, yes, huh?

Jazmin Pedroza: 3:00

Um, so they went in there and they seen that she was growing perfectly fine. Then they prescribed me the pain medications. I followed up with my OB, to which my OB would just prescribe prescription after prescription. And he pretty much, me thinking, okay, it's a doctor that's giving them to me, it's okay. I didn't question it.

Angela Kennecke: 3:28

Eventually, the doctor quit prescribing the pain medication and Jasmine went searching for relief on the streets, taking the powerful and very dangerous synthetic opioid fentanyl. Let's talk about fentanyl for a minute because I think everyone does hear like how dangerous, I mean, my daughter died from just a minuscule amount of fentanyl. She didn't know that's what she was getting. She thought she was taking heroin, but it was fentanyl. And I think when people hear that, they think, how can people, and, but that's really common today that people do seek out fentanyl. It's pretty much all that's available. Can you kind of explain that? Because I think you kind of surprised yourself even by seeking that out.

Jazmin Pedroza: 4:10

I was scared of it because I would see, you know, the reaction. I would see people falling asleep. And it was a scary feeling, you know, taking that one dose and not knowing if is it too powerful? Is it not? Is it going to put me to sleep to the point I'm not going to wake up?

Angela Kennecke: 4:29

Thankfully, Jasmine survived, but she couldn't stop using despite her pregnancy. It was a roller

Jazmin Pedroza: 4:37

coaster every day. Not one time did me terminating the pregnancy ever crossed my mind, but, The thought of him, you know, me miscarrying, every day I would, it would go through my mind. I would wake up and, you know, my body would hurt. It was automatically once he wake, the, the actual joint pain would wake me up. So when I would get up and feel like, okay, I'm getting sick and I need to take it. And every time I would take it, I would just feel so bad because I knew he was moving inside me. And it was just, it was horrible. Just knowing that. Like everyday, I, I just, I just didn't know because I'm like, okay, am I taking it to keep him alive or am I taking it to the point where Is it just me being selfish and me just not wanting to be sick, but I would get scared because I would read a lot, I would Google a lot, and I would see that, you know, babies would pass away through withdrawal process and stuff like that. And I was just scared to get help. I was scared because, you know, like family members would scare me. Oh, they had their baby taken away and they went to jail. Because they're using and I'm just like, Oh my God, like, what am I doing? You know, the moment I found out I was pregnant, I should have checked into rehab. Like, no, this, but I continued and I continued and I got bigger and I got bigger. And it was just, I would try to stretch like as far as I could to get sick, but not get sick, sick. So I wouldn't have to take as much.

Angela Kennecke: 6:15

My heart just goes out to you because I can't imagine you were physically and mentally dependent on this drug. I understand you felt horrible. You're working, you're pregnant, you're too afraid to get help. You're too afraid, right, to go to rehab at that point after you're pregnant. Jasmine felt an overwhelming sense of shame, so much so that she hid her addiction even from her husband. He only found out when she went into labor and the hospital staff picked up on possible signs of drug use.

Jazmin Pedroza: 6:55

I walked in hysterical, you know, I had contractions, I didn't know what was going on around me, but I felt the room, I read the room, you know, the eyes were just kind of like, the short tone, we're gonna do a drug test, I know everything's falling apart at this point. The nurse, she would tell me, you know, you gotta tell your husband, if not, I'm gonna tell him. And, uh, It was, how do you tell, you know, how do you tell your spouse, like, hey, we're pregnant, we're gonna have a baby, but, by the way, I've been using, you know, how do you, how do you work up to that? And it was just like, give me time, give me time, you know, my baby's here, he's healthy, give me that minute, you know, like, give me that to be able to just take in, to be able to look at his delivery and think happy thoughts, at least. And move. It was from the time he was born, he did show symptoms of withdrawals, so they, they flat out just cornermuted to let him know. I told him DCS got involved and they went to interview us, they went to interview my daughter, they went to go see the house, you know, everything. I would never think it would happen to me, and they had him in the NICU for about four or five days. They put him on morphine right away, which I don't think that he should have been on it. They would just dose him after dose every three hours. I mean, he was in Newport and he was asleep, but it was just every three hours they would dose him.

Angela Kennecke: 8:29

Did they give you anything for withdrawal?

Jazmin Pedroza: 8:32

They gave me anxiety medication and they gave me one, I think, dose of the withdrawal medication, the buprenorphine. And all my feedback that I would get from the doctors was, we're not a detox center. We're specialized in delivery. We're not a detox and I, I literally stayed there. I could have checked out. I could have, you know, volunteered to check out to go and use or, you know, whatever. No, the nurses would say if I would discharge myself or if I would leave that it would look bad on me, that I had a more chance of my son getting taken away because I would leave and they would think I would go and use.

Angela Kennecke: 9:15

So nobody offered you Suboxone or nobody started prescribing you.

Jazmin Pedroza: 9:19

No.

Angela Kennecke: 9:19

That's horrible.

Jazmin Pedroza: 9:21

I went through the withdrawal there.

Angela Kennecke: 9:23

Wow. But then, Jasmine and her baby were referred to Hushabye Nursery in Phoenix, a center dedicated to helping substance exposed babies and providing compassionate, evidence based care for their clients.

Tara Sundem: 9:42

Let's just meet her where she's at and see her as maybe my, my daughter. and go, how would I want you to treat my daughter?

Angela Kennecke: 9:52

Tara Sondheim is the co founder and executive director of Hushaby Nursery. This is

Tara Sundem: 9:58

how I'd want you to treat my daughter. I'd want you to like hug her and embrace her and tell her, number one, congratulations. Congratulations. Everyone that's pregnant, first thing you hear is congratulations. I'm so excited for you. My families never get told congratulations. When they hear it for the first time from my team, and everyone knows that should be their very first words, their trusts start to build, the barriers break down, and building that trust is the first step to getting families well. And if we can get families well, I can keep babies and moms and dads together, which ultimately for community. And outcomes is what we want. When we get families well, we keep them out of jail. We keep them, you know, crime rates down. It's all a huge benefit.

Angela Kennecke: 10:58

Let's rewind a moment back to the 1990s. Tera had worked as a nurse practitioner for a large NICU and then transitioned to a smaller facility. But even then, she noticed a huge need to take care of babies who had been exposed to opioids while in the womb. At

Tara Sundem: 11:18

any given time, we were caring for five or six babies that were withdrawing from opiate exposure. And this was in 2015 and it was a revolving door. And I honestly lived in my little bubble. I didn't understand the opioid crisis. In the big units, what would happen was, these babies would come, I would admit them, being a neonatal nurse practitioner, do their assessment, and we would put them on what we call the doc or the resident team. Which means that they're getting cared for, but they're not getting the minutiae care. They're not having two providers care for them at the same time. Nor Do these little ones need that? They don't. What came up here to me was, Oh my gosh, did we have this many babies in our big unit? And so I'm in this tiny little NICU, I call over to my peers. here in the Phoenix area. And I'm like, how many babies do you have there withdrawing? And they're like, I don't know, two, three. And I'm like, no, no, no. I need you to go and count how many are there. And the first unit had 12. And then I called to another one that was like a 32 bed unit and they had fives. And it called around in just in our East Valley, which I mean, it's a big population, but we had usually 18 to 24 babies withdrawing. And I did it monthly. I would just call and I'm like. Boy, there's an issue here. And then looking at statistically wise, when our babies were coming to us, they were staying with us for two months.

Angela Kennecke: 13:09

Tara says most of the babies were going through opioid withdrawal, a heartbreaking process that was incredibly difficult to watch.

Tara Sundem: 13:21

One mom explained it to me, stumped it down perfectly, because then I went, Oh, okay, got it. But she explained to me, it's the worst flu and migraine times 100. And when I heard that, I was like, the worst flu migraine times a hundred. Vomiting, diarrhea, temperature, chills, irritability, can't sleep. So everything that you and I have when we have the flu, you know, like when I have the flu, I go in my bedroom, I turn down the lights, make it completely dark and hope to goodness I fall asleep. Wake up. I feel better. That's what we all hope. You know, your fever will break. You're finally feel better. Well, imagine if you're a baby and you feel that way and you're in this environment that is bright, beeping monitors because it was created for babies the size of a dollar bill. And your little pod mate decides that he needs a whole budget of attention or he's going to die. And I, withdrawing, just fell asleep, and so all the commotions going on over here for the baby that's gonna die, and I'm over here crying, and crying, and crying, and crying. In the neonatal intensive care unit, when a baby can cry, and this is awful, but this is how we feel, if a baby can cry, they have enough energy to cry. That's a good thing. When babies don't

Angela Kennecke: 14:51

cry, we're like, oh, they're really, really sick. So not in need as of much immediate attention if they're crying, in other words. Exactly. And also, when you're talking about withdrawal, and I've certainly have heard adults explain withdrawal to me. And so for me to think about an infant, a brand new born going through that, it just makes me want to cry.

Tara Sundem: 15:15

Yeah. It's, it's one of those that when you see a baby go through this, you'll never ever forget it. You want to make it better. And as a healthcare provider, if you're not able to care for them because you don't have the hands, you don't have the time, you leave. Yeah. Your shift feeling like you didn't do a good job because this little one cried the entire time and when I finally got to them I ended up having to ask for more opiate because that's what we give to them We give them a medication morphine some places across country will give methadone But we need to give them an opiate to get them from their spiral because they're spiraling because they're just miserable and what that does is it extends their stay and In the neonatal intensive care unit. And what I found was when I was here for, you know, five or six babies at a time that were withdrawing, gosh, it's really quiet in the unit. With certain nurses and certain nurse practitioners, the babies thrived. They did so good. I didn't need to give them as much medication. The parents were good. The energy was just good. With certain nurses and certain practitioners, certain providers, Everybody was anxious. Everybody was high energy. And for the NICU, most of us are like adrenaline junkies. Yeah, I could see that. I could see that. We, we, we love to save lives. We love it. And it's like high five when we're done. Look at what we did. And these babies need calm. Cool. Like, okay, that didn't work. Let's try this. Let's do this. Let's take a little one. We'll And put them in the closet with me, and I'm going to do some deep yoga breaths so that I get myself regulated. And guess what? I found that babies responded. And when I did that, and I was like, take that deep breath in, baby would be screaming, but I'd take the deep breath in, and they'd be like, what did you just do? And then all of a sudden I'd break that scream and after three deep breaths I'd intervened or broke their cycle of screaming and de escalated them.

Angela Kennecke: 17:35

That's so interesting to me. So really babies are feeding off the energy of those around them.

Tara Sundem: 17:41

They really do. And because they just don't feel good.

Angela Kennecke: 17:48

Tara began searching for better ways to help these babies. And that's when she discovered a facility in West Virginia. called Lily's Place, and they,

Tara Sundem: 17:59

out of their community need, needed NICU beds, and they opened a little nursery that they took babies that were withdrawing and, and put them into their own environment.

Angela Kennecke: 18:10

Well, we know that West Virginia was hit hard. I mean, one of the hardest states hit by the opioid crisis.

Tara Sundem: 18:16

Yep, in this community, we went to visit them, I mean, completely devastated a parent throughout the entire community of how much they were impacted. But we went to visit and we were like, okay, teach us what you did, teach us, you know, the glitches, what do we overcome? And they told us that they got a building donated. So we're like, okay, we're going to get a building donated. Again, nurses doing this, my co founder is also a nurse practitioner, one of my best friends. We don't know what we're, seriously, don't know what we're doing.

Angela Kennecke: 18:48

Wow. Anytime you do something new, and I did that with Emily's Hope as well, like I'm doing something brand new, we're starting brand new initiatives that nobody's done it before, and it's like, you don't know what you're doing, but you have. I think it's in your heart, right? It's laid upon your heart that you know what you want to do and you know what you want to change and you know what you want the outcomes to be.

Tara Sundem: 19:08

Yeah. I mean, that's exactly it. And you just, like for me, it was, if this was my baby or my grandbaby, I would demand this care. I would demand that you put my baby in a closet with you and that you debride. And if you don't have the energy, then I would say, Angela, I need you to get in here and do this with them and make it all better. And that's where Hushabye came about. It was like, how do we make it better?

Angela Kennecke: 19:43

Tara did not get a building donated for the project, but she did receive significant funding to help with the lease. With that support, Hushabye Nursery opened its doors in November of 2020, ready to begin making a difference. My

Tara Sundem: 20:00

babies that I'm caring for are born with two to three adverse childhood experiences. If I did not get mom well and they have three, I'm taking baby away and putting them into foster care. I've just set this baby up with four adverse childhood experiences, which equals a very high risk of increased chronic illnesses, 56 years down the road.

Angela Kennecke: 20:27

Sure. Mental health and addiction are, I'll go back to these. I get what you're saying. These children are really set up. And not only that, I often wonder, and actually know a family whose 15 year old died from fentanyl poisoning and she was born addicted. They adopted her, but they always wondered if she turned to drugs later in life because her brain was set up. to receive that because she was born addicted,

Tara Sundem: 20:51

you

Angela Kennecke: 20:51

know, and I don't know

Tara Sundem: 20:53

that we know

Angela Kennecke: 20:53

that we don't know. I think you're right.

Tara Sundem: 20:55

Yeah, I think that when you look at trauma, I think when you look at bonding, even prenatal bonding, all of that is brain development in someone's head. And can you have a lot of adverse childhood experiences. Can you have resiliency to overcome them? You absolutely can.

angela---undefined-_1_07-25-2024_150509: 21:17

Yes.

Tara Sundem: 21:17

But if you're not in a stable environment, or if we don't know that we need to get this support for these families, of course, they're going to struggle. And unfortunately, babies that are born substance exposed have not been the primary. worry of the medical community or any part of the community now with the fentanyl crisis, more and more are talking about it, you know, decreasing the stigma going, Oh my gosh, it could be my son or my daughter. I've lost loved ones to overdoses.

Angela Kennecke: 21:58

It's hitting everyone. What about the tendency for people to blame the parent, especially the mother? That is our biggest barrier.

Tara Sundem: 22:08

Families are stigmatized. Substance use is something that people keep hush hush. They don't talk about it. Now we're getting better, more and more. I mean, you guys were on this podcast, so we're talking more and more about it. But that does not help people get help. When they feel shame, when we are like, if you loved your baby, you would stop using, you would stop using. No one understands that going cold turkey. When you're pregnant, you miscarry or have preterm delivery. So going cold turkey is not recommended at all by the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology. The recommendation is to transition to Suboxone or to methadone and get them stable on that so that we can get them. Healthy and get them to where they can parent successfully and our program under the same roof. So we have a building that has outpatient behavioral health services for parents, moms and dads to get

Angela Kennecke: 23:16

them. Well, we meet them prenatally. You are treating the whole family. You are treating the whole family. So you're trying to get to these families before the baby's even born. I am.

Tara Sundem: 23:27

I am. That's amazing. I'm trying to get them housing and food and transportation and residential treatment and whatever they're open for.

Angela Kennecke: 23:34

How are they finding out about you?

Tara Sundem: 23:37

So many different ways, the medication assisted treatment programs, so the providers that prescribe methadone or suboxone, buprenorphine, a lot of referrals from them, behavioral health detox, different organizations will do that. Word on the street is huge. Word on the street, families telling other families that we treated them with respect and dignity,

Angela Kennecke: 24:04

and we just met them where they're at. How long is the average stay for a baby at the Heshebi Nursery? Nine days at Heshebi. The national average is 22. Wow! I mean, that's incredible. And what do you liken it to? The dark, calming environment over the NICU, anything else? The involvement of the families?

Tara Sundem: 24:26

Yeah,

Angela Kennecke: 24:26

understanding that

Tara Sundem: 24:27

moms are the best medicine. And having the families come in and stay 24 7, and to help them regulate, help them get the right energy, help them go, Okay, I'm going to do these deep breaths when I could get a mom to do those deep breaths with her baby that's screaming all of a sudden that baby just melts in and is like, Oh, maybe I'm back inside mom and this is all a bad, you know, dream and you see them not escalate. Have

Angela Kennecke: 25:01

you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story. on our new Emily's Hope Memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, and friends. So much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on morethanjustanumber. org. Since opening just four years ago, Hushabye Nursery has cared for more than 800 babies. On the day of this interview, the center was providing services to more than 150 pregnant moms. And when

Tara Sundem: 25:44

I think of 800 babies, I think that's 26 kindergarten classes. If our kindergarten classes are 25 to 30, if you think of that many babies that. Touched in less than four years that like kind of shocks everyone and the crisis is not going anywhere.

Angela Kennecke: 26:15

Sadly, Tara says she's seeing more babies and parents affected by substance use disorder. The silver lining, however, is that the babies who received care at the center are overall doing well.

Tara Sundem: 26:29

They're thriving. They are thriving. We are seeing maybe more sensory processing. issues, meaning they don't like lots of lights. They don't like big tons of stuff going on. It's like heightened ADHD, overstimulation kind of overstimulation, which makes sense. You know, like it will be very interesting. This first kindergarten class, if I can even get 12 of them to give me some outcomes to go, Okay, this is what we need. Really getting early intervention is probably our next step. We need to make sure that they're getting what they need so that when they go into kindergarten, they're ready to roll.

Angela Kennecke: 27:11

And what about the moms and the dads? Are they staying in recovery more often because they've been impacted by your program?

Tara Sundem: 27:19

They are. And to see them like succeed is wonderful. To see them mentor. Others that are struggling now, they still jump on our, we do at least 60 a month, virtual and in person. But to see someone that's been through our program, they have a two year old, they're on group, and they're talking to a mom that's scared to death, that's due in the next two days, to see that interaction, when I can remember when that person was in that same situation, is just magic. Now, are there oopsies? We call them oopsies, or a lapse in recovery. There are oopsies. You know, if I'm on a diet, I have a lapse in my diet all the time because I wanted the chocolate cake. But what my families have learned is if there's an oopsie, they can come to us. We work very closely with Department of Child Safety to ensure that our kids are safe. And what that looks like is, if there's an oopsie, the parents are coming, they're going, This is what happened. I lost my job. My car broke down. You know, they're always learning. We just go, Okay, let's pick you back up. Is baby safe? Number one. Number two, we got to make a call to DCS. We're going to do it together. It will be better if you mom tattle on yourself and tell them what went on. And then they're going to offer us resources and we're going to figure out where a safe place is for your baby. Sometimes that is grandma comes and is staying with mom and dad while we increase behavioral health support for them, but we see them succeed and it's nothing better for them to call us and go, I screwed up

Angela Kennecke: 29:07

and I'm like, okay, you screwed up. You know, relapse definitely is a part of substance use disorder, and so for people to understand it's a part of it, and I mean, I think they have their own shame, you know, surrounding it. To be supported during that time is sort of a novel idea because in the past, it seems like people have, you know, sort of written that person off or punished them or said, well, you know, you screwed up so that, and they probably feel that way anyway, like they screwed up and all is lost.

Tara Sundem: 29:34

Oh, they absolutely do. You know, when they're doing great for two years and then something happened. And more often than not, they met friends that they thought were friends that said they were well, and guess what? They weren't well. And before they knew it, they were friends. using again. And it's like, darn it. And I think that's the magic of Hushabye, of families knowing that we're not going to judge them. The only, only thing that I take care of now are people that are struggling with substance use. And so many times people tell me there's no way you're going to get them well. And I'm like, I beg to differ. I have seen families that I sit there and go, there is no way. And I've learned to not say there is no way. Because someone says the right thing at the right time, those right words get them to go. I think I can do it. That little amount of hope, and if you give them that little amount of hope, and then you jump on what they're open to. Are you open to medications for opiate use disorder? If you are, let's get you there. We have peer supports that have actually been through our program that I met when they weren't well. Really just keep encouraging them saying, I understand this is really hard. This is really scary. Been there. And that power of someone that's been there that understands is something that I've not been there. I've seen

Angela Kennecke: 31:07

it. Right. Me either. We have peer support specialists working for us too, to help people. And I think that that is huge. It's huge to have that connection. What major hurdles or stumbling blocks do you have as you try to provide this care for more and more babies, more and more families?

Tara Sundem: 31:25

Yeah, our major hurdle, number one stigma, and then sustainability, we're doing something that's never been done in the country. Lily's Place did the baby, but they did not do behavioral health for the parents, and now they're starting to do that. But, how do you make this care model that's never ever been done, how do you make it the gold standard of care, because when you look at our outcomes, In the hospital, less than 50 percent of these babies go home with their parents. Here at Hushabye, greater than, I think we're at 78 percent of our babies are going home with their parents. 78 percent and they're going home safely. Wow. When you look at those numbers and the outcomes and No matter if we sit there and go these babies are better off with foster care is what I thought I used to believe that When I was a nurse when I didn't understand adverse childhood experience And there there are people that believe that but if we can help provide the services to these families to get them Well, we should

Angela Kennecke: 32:31

Yeah.

Tara Sundem: 32:31

And if they're open to it, it's what these little ones deserve.

Angela Kennecke: 32:35

Do you ever feel burned out? Because it sounds to me like you're working very hard and doing a lot. Do you ever feel like, Hmm, I don't know if I can keep doing this?

Tara Sundem: 32:46

Well. I don't know if I feel burnt out. Do I get discouraged? Yes. And has my husband, you know, from 2015 to now, are there times that I'm in tears going, Oh my gosh, and I think this was the worst thing. And he goes, you know, that it always is. There's a land and then three or four good things come up. It's been that way. We have been very blessed. God has watched over us and realized that when I'm asking for prayers and going, please give me the. The knowledge to lead our organization and the ambition to continue and just to understand that our babies are worth it. It keeps me going. I love what I do. Like I leave.

Angela Kennecke: 33:39

For Jasmine, the experience was nothing short of life saving. She received the medication and support she needed to treat her substance use disorder. And her baby was able to recover and go home in just two weeks.

Jazmin Pedroza: 33:56

They made me feel like a person again. They made me feel like I'm a human again, like just because I used, you know, it happens, you know, but I, They didn't judge me, you know, they didn't judge, they seen past, like, they seen Jasmine, they seen Jasmine in recovery, they seen Jasmine trying to get help, Jasmine trying to get better, the volunteers, they went from making me, making me take naps to actually going over there just to talk to me and telling me, hey, you're doing a good job, like, don't, don't beat yourself up, don't. And. You know, even though you, I felt like the worst mother ever, the worst person, they actually made me feel like there's life after, you know, and I have a human being that I have to care for. And they showed me how to care for him. Because not only, you know, is he withdrawing and Is he going through these different stages as opposed to my daughter? They've changed my life.

Angela Kennecke: 35:07

So far, Jasmine says she hasn't noticed any long term effects on her son from her drug use. But she's still working on forgiving herself for using drugs while she was pregnant.

Jazmin Pedroza: 35:20

He's meeting all his milestones. They make sure to, you know, check in with me. Tara actually, um, checks in with me time to time, where she'll jump on group and then see how they're doing. And he's actually, he knows her. He actually doesn't cry with her, so he's actually at that age where Are you familiar? Do I know you? Do I cry with you? He's learning how to walk. He doesn't want to walk yet, but he's saying dada. You know, he's thriving. He's living his best life because I think I owe him more than my world. And I think I always beat myself up every day for that. And I try to make it up as much as I did yesterday. I know I'm in the forgiving process. It's gonna be a long road, but I can't forgive myself right now. And I know I can't. I'm working on it. But every day I try to give him what I can. What attention I get and what love I can't every day.

Angela Kennecke: 36:29

Jasmine's feelings are all too common for those struggling with addiction. Shame and guilt often weigh heavily on people with substance use disorder, even though research clearly shows it's a disease. Do you think you would be in recovery if you hadn't gone to Hushabye? I

Jazmin Pedroza: 36:50

don't think so. I think my son probably, But I've got it taken away that day because the way those withdrawals are, it makes you want to, you know, I've never thought about hurting myself ever, ever. But that drug actually going through the withdrawals that day, I just, I would look at the window and I would just think like, maybe I could sneak out and go and try to score and then come back.

Angela Kennecke: 37:18

Thankfully, Jasmine pushed through the pain of withdrawal until she could get treatment at Hushabye. Now she's in recovery, raising her children and sharing her story to inspire and support others facing similar battles.

Jazmin Pedroza: 37:34

I know what I'm doing. I know I'm living my best life. I know I do not want to ever touch one of those things again. I'm more than a year clean, sober, and I'm thriving and I'm giving my kids their best. Life that they can.

Angela Kennecke: 38:00

We wanna thank Jasmine and Tara for sharing their stories. If you have an idea for a podcast episode, please email me. You can find my contact information in the show notes along with more details about hba Nursery. Thanks for listening. I hope this episode has inspired you to make a difference in your life and the lives of those around you. Until next time, wishing you faith. Hope. This podcast is produced by Casey Wundenberg King and Kaylee Fitz.