President Joe Biden: 0:07

Mr Speaker, Madam Vice President,

Angela Kennecke: 0:10

the State of the Union, a moment when the president speaks directly to the heart of the nation, outlining the country's goals and agenda for the next year. And you were also invited to the State of the Union most recently?

Deric Kidd: 0:22

Yes, so we jumped at the chance. Now, little did we know at the time that it was between us and Caitlin Clark.

Angela Kennecke: 0:27

Today's guests on Grieving Out Loud were invited to the 2024 State of the Union for a reason They could have never imagined just a few years ago. Were you aware of fentanyl?

Deric Kidd: 0:39

No, it caught us off guard. And when we found our son, you know, that was one of the first things they said to us, and I didn't really have any idea what they were talking about.

Angela Kennecke: 0:47

I'm your host, Angela Koenigke, join me at the Midwest DEA Family Summit as we confront the mental health crisis, the fentanyl epidemic, and hear how this family is turning their unimaginable grief into a mission to save lives. Well, Kathy and Derek, it is just great to meet you here in person at the DEA Family Fentanyl Summit. I have been going to this summit for, this is my third one, and every year it grows. Sadly, every year there are more parents like us. And I know that you've suffered this horrible tragedy just like so many of us, and I'm sorry we meet under these circumstances, but I am glad to know you.

Kathy Kidd: 1:34

Nice to meet you. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Angela Kennecke: 1:37

I'd like to start off by talking a little bit about what happened in your family, what happened with your son, Sebastian. Can you tell me a little bit about Sebastian? What was he like?

Deric Kidd: 1:49

He was, I guess, your typical teenager. He was funny. He enjoyed spending time with his friends. He was a hard worker. He loved sports, loved fishing, hunting, just loved being active. And he was a handful at times, but he was a good kid. He had a big heart, and that's one of our favorite things about him. But he was, he was very respectful. But I, I would say he was, he was typical.

Angela Kennecke: 2:17

A typical kid who loved the outdoors and had a passion for creating music. Derek and Kathy also say their teenage son was especially talented when it came to technology, even running that aspect of the family's tree removal business.

Deric Kidd: 2:33

You know, could do just about anything. He took the reins and just did a tremendous job. So he's one of those people that could have done anything.

Angela Kennecke: 2:39

And he was like 16 or something and he was doing this?

Deric Kidd: 2:42

At the end of his 16th year into his 17th, he was basically running most of the equipment and taking care of things. And my little salesman out there, you know, talking to the clients, he was just very good with people.

Kathy Kidd: 2:53

Yeah, he was a good little salesman.

Angela Kennecke: 2:55

Did you ever worry about him? Were you concerned about him?

Kathy Kidd: 2:59

You always worry. You always worry. I think his personality was so big. He never met a stranger. He was always just talking to people, very out there, always wanting to try new things. I don't know that we worried about him any more so than any parent would worry about any kid, really.

Deric Kidd: 3:18

We raised him to be very independent. He would go anywhere by himself. He would make friends in a matter of seconds. It didn't matter who they were. He just wanted to be friends with everybody. He wanted to talk to everybody and I could not go anywhere with that kid. without somebody coming up to him.

Kathy Kidd: 3:33

We would be at the weirdest places. Was it the Omaha Zoo? And he ran into people he knew. I mean, just, we couldn't go into Hy Vee. We couldn't go anywhere without him meeting people. And we had no idea who they were. But he knew the kids, he knew the parents. You're saying he's an extrovert then? Oh, very much so. Yeah. Yeah.

Deric Kidd: 3:52

He was raised that way.

Angela Kennecke: 3:53

Right. Right. Well, and that's just sort of natural too. Some kids are extroverts, some kids are introverts. And I think also somebody who is very outgoing, not afraid to try new things, not afraid to go to different places, meet new people. My daughter was completely like that. She was an extrovert and she was a risk taker. I always say she was a gymnast and she was on the balance beam and takes more risks than that, right? Right. I don't know if Sebastian was a risk taker, if he's tried new things.

Deric Kidd: 4:22

I have video of him cliff diving and doing some other things, so I would say yes.

Angela Kennecke: 4:28

Cliff diving, okay, okay, yes, definitely. I think the thing is, there are personality traits that Contribute to what's happening in today's world and sadly it shouldn't be that way, but there certainly are if kids are risk takers They're more than willing to try something.

Kathy Kidd: 4:42

Mm hmm, and they think they're invincible

Angela Kennecke: 4:44

and we all did right, right Of all the challenges kids face Derek and Kathy never really worried about drugs After all, they were a family that rarely drank and didn't even keep alcohol in the house

Deric Kidd: 5:02

We definitely did not talk in a in a positive manner about recreational drugs You They knew our opinion on things, and it was just no all the way through, so.

Kathy Kidd: 5:11

Yeah. I mean, we were social drinkers, usually only on vacation, so the kids didn't see it, you know, on a day to day basis. Same thing with smoking. Neither one of us smoked or anything like that, so you just have the normal conversations. with them.

Angela Kennecke: 5:25

And were you aware of how deadly the drug supply is? Were you aware of fentanyl?

Deric Kidd: 5:31

No, it caught us off guard. And when we found our son, you know, that was one of the first things they said to us. And I didn't really have any idea what they were talking about.

Angela Kennecke: 5:45

Now this couple understands the devastating impact of fentanyl all too well. In July of 2021, their son had a busy day working two jobs and getting ready for a vacation the next day, something he was really looking forward to.

Deric Kidd: 6:03

He had been planning a trip with his aunt and uncle, cross country trip that probably for six months they'd been talking about it and the day finally arrived and he was getting ready for bed. His girlfriend had come over for about an hour and they spent some time together and he was showered, told us goodnight, gave me a big hug, went to bed and you know the funny thing is, is for some reason I, I felt like I needed to check on him. I can't explain why but I didn't. And the next morning he was supposed to be up for work, he was still going to work his normal job before he took off and his bedroom door was closed and I instantly felt like something was wrong and knocked on the door and when I opened it he was slumped over his bed, he was on his knees on the floor and slumped over his bed. My heart dropped because I, I knew something was wrong and part of me was just praying that, that it wasn't. I hollered at him, told him to get up, said it's time to get up. And no response, so I touched him and, you know, I knew right away, but I still tried to shake him and then I screamed when he didn't move. He had been gone for hours and hours, so as you can imagine the situation. My wife called 9 1 1 and when they arrived, they told me not to touch my son because it may be fentanyl and they didn't want me to be around it and, you know, that didn't matter. I, I hugged my son the entire time.

Angela Kennecke: 7:24

First of all, this situation is a complete shock. Traumatizing and then to not even know what Fentanyl is, to not even know there could be an issue, to not know that he could have tried something. Like with my daughter, we knew there was a problem, but I didn't expect her to die because I didn't know exactly what it was. You talk about finding him in his room, and you are probably the fifth or sixth parent I've talked to whose kid was at home and they go into their room and find them dead the next day. and they're thinking they're safe at home. The brain can't even register how this could happen, you know, when you think they're safe at home in their beds, in their bedrooms, sleeping for the night. One of those parents is Sam Chapman, whose 16 year old son bought a pill through Snapchat that ended up being laced with a deadly amount of fentanyl. It was delivered to his house just as easily as if he'd ordered a pizza online.

Sam Chapman: 8:32

I was there when he died and tried to resuscitate him and did not succeed. So that is a freak out and a half along with all the other sorrow and pain.

Angela Kennecke: 8:44

Right. It's just one more thing. I almost think people who didn't get to their child's body, so to speak, have it better off because for me, ran through a police barricade. You know, to get into her apartment and saw my daughter laying on the ground where the EMTs were working on her, and that was bad enough. I mean, you were there before the EMTs, I know that in Sammy's case.

Kathy Kidd: 9:08

That

Angela Kennecke: 9:09

image is just burned into my mind and it comes back. Oftentimes when I don't expect it to. Do you find that to be the case too?

Sam Chapman: 9:18

Right. And in the places where I was most creative, you know, where your mind sort of goes blank and all those wonderful business thoughts and stuff that I did well would just come flooding in. Now images of his death and reminders that he's dead flow in. And so. Like in the shower, when there's just a white noise, all of these wonderful, creative ideas used to come and now I don't even like take, do still take my showers, but I don't like it because those thoughts come rushing back in the gray space.

Angela Kennecke: 9:59

And it's the same story every single time. And it is just shocking and awful and horrible. And then that day I think is always also burned into your psyche. I also was with my daughter after she died in her room and I, you know, laid with her. They kind of left me alone with her until the crime lab came, which surprised me because they don't always do that when they're concerned about fentanyl. And I laid with her and it's such an awful feeling because they're gone. And I just hugged her until I was kicked out of the room, basically. And it sounds like that's what you did as well.

Deric Kidd: 10:40

I did, and that moment is etched in my brain forever, and it's, it's a tough image to get out. Sometimes I wish I didn't have it, and it's something you can't get out of your head.

Kathy Kidd: 10:50

There's so much of it I think that is a blur. I just even was thinking the other day about the details of the funeral and just realizing that there's just so many parts and pieces of it that I don't even remember how things came together. The first, well, I guess a year, you drive down the street, you still expect to see his vehicle parked out there. You expect to come downstairs and see him at the Island eating cereal in the morning and they're not there. So, for me, I just feel like a lot of that first couple years are kind of a blur. I think that's normal.

Angela Kennecke: 11:27

It's really like a brain injury when you have such a traumatic and shocking death. You're in shock and it really does feel like a brain injury, a brain fog. I think most of us have experienced that.

Deric Kidd: 11:40

I can't really describe the pain. I've watched a lot of interviews with people that have lost, whether it's just normal people or celebrity and people that have lost, specifically a child. You can literally see the pain in their eyes. You can hear it in their voices when they talk about it, and we're talking years, years down the road. What I have found is you learn to live with it, and the more experiences you have, the easier it is to cope with it. There are certain things it took doing things that first, second, and third time for me to finally feel like, okay, I can do this. And this might be a poor example, but even listening to a song, I couldn't do it. I had to turn it off and then I'd listen to a little more and then a little more. And I'd cry during the first few times. And eventually. I got to a point to where I could get through it, and my experiences are the same with that as well. There are some things that I haven't been able to do yet, and there are some things that little by little I've been able to try to get out there. You know, fishing was a passion of mine with our son, and I haven't been fishing since. I'm just not there yet, but the day to day stuff, you know, little by little, you just learn how to, hopefully you do. Not everybody's the same, but hopefully you learn how to cope with it and deal with it on a daily basis.

Angela Kennecke: 12:59

Right. Everybody's grief journey is different. It's unique to them. On top of battling their grief, Derek and Kathy were shocked to learn how their son had died. Fentanyl wasn't even on their radar. How could their child have gotten the powerful synthetic opioid?

Deric Kidd: 13:21

They found the other half of the pill. I guess that he took half of what he thought was a Percocet, and they said that there was enough in there. It killed him almost instantly. So we really, unless I would have caught him right at that moment, it wouldn't have mattered, but he was taking medication for anxiety and depression and he had at some point switched that out. We knew that he did not feel comfortable taking the medication and we're not thrilled about medications anyway, but we also knew some of the pain that he was going through. So we, on the advice of, of his doctor, we went ahead and agreed to do that. And unfortunately they didn't make him feel well, so he switched out at some point and continued on. using what he thought was Percocet, and in the end, that was his demise.

Angela Kennecke: 14:10

The Percocet Sebastian began taking was not prescribed by a doctor. Instead, Derek says a friend suggested he start buying it off the street, or should we say through his cell phone, to cope with his anxiety and depression. Sadly, this is not uncommon. In fact, families of dozens of young people who died after buying illegal drugs through social media are now suing Snapchat's parent company.

Deric Kidd: 14:36

He tried it through a friend the first time, and then he started to obtain it through Snapchat.

Angela Kennecke: 14:41

How do you know on the advice of a friend?

Deric Kidd: 14:43

Because I spoke to that friend. Oh, really? That was a very difficult conversation, but Tell me about that. Ha. I had another one of his friends bring up a name, and I contacted her directly when I found out, and she was very open about the discussion. The funny thing was is that he had had a conversation with her. He knew that it wasn't making him feel right. And he got her to stop, but he could not get away from it himself. I don't know how long he had been taking it, but it was long enough where it had a hold on him.

Angela Kennecke: 15:18

And chances are what he was taking was fentanyl all along, just not enough to kill him, because we know these press pills that they're getting off of Snapchat are always pretty much laced with fentanyl. In fact, the Drug Enforcement Administration issued a public safety alert after lab testing revealed that 7 out of every 10 pills seized by the DEA contained a deadly dose of fentanyl. In 2023 alone, law enforcement confiscated more than 150, 000. 15 million pills laced with a potentially deadly substance. Here's Justin King in a previous episode of Grieving Out Loud. King was a special agent in charge of the DEA Omaha Division.

Justin King: 16:07

The synthetic drug does not have a growing season. It does not have a product. They don't have to have the manual labor. to do all that. And, you know, I've worked in Afghanistan in the poppy fields and eradicating that. And, and it's a very tedious process to produce heroin from that. Once you get that going, it's the same thing with marijuana growing. So anything synthetic, there's a higher profit margin. And plus they make an unlimited supply of it. And you just need a building to make it in. Building, but they, a lot of times we'll make it in the middle of a jungle or they'll make it, you know, somewhere in a rural area because. takes a lot of laboratories to make the products. We have seen a decline in heroin seizures significantly. There still are heroin seizures, we still do, but with the fentanyl seizures, like we said, it's a lower overhead product. They don't have to put as much money into it and they will produce that and their profit margins are extremely high because of it.

Angela Kennecke: 17:00

It's all about profit.

Justin King: 17:01

Oh, all about profit.

Angela Kennecke: 17:03

Tragically, that greed has led to a surge in deaths across the U. S. Fentanyl's high potency not only makes it deadly, but also incredibly addictive.

Deric Kidd: 17:15

Well, it's very easy to get started. There are a lot of different ways. You know, our son suffered. He had broken collarbone. He had sports injuries. He was highly involved in sports. Again, he was dealing with anxiety and depression. So there's a lot of reasons why these people. Whether it's kids or adults, they're put on these medications to try and help initially, and they can't get off of it. And then if they do, you know, if the prescriptions end up being taken away, they don't have a choice but to try to deal with that pain in some other way. Whether it's switching medications or trying to replenish your prescription, I mean, there's, A lot of conversations that need to be had and a lot of work that needs to be done.

Angela Kennecke: 17:52

Did you find out who sold him the pill? How he got it? Were they ever charged?

Deric Kidd: 17:58

So we worked with law enforcement. He had the information in his phone, but I'm sure as you know with Snapchat, you know, the messages disappear. They found the name of the person that was involved and nothing ever came about. And honestly, that's not something that we pursued. We let law enforcement do their job and If they ended up catching him, that's fine, but that wasn't anything that was going to bring me any peace. I wasn't looking for justice. I was looking for ways to help other people.

Angela Kennecke: 18:27

So no one was ever arrested?

Deric Kidd: 18:29

Not to our knowledge. Correct.

Angela Kennecke: 18:31

I understand what you're saying. There were people arrested in my daughter's case and people actually went to prison. They killed more than just my daughter. But It did not bring me any peace. It didn't bring her back. I am glad these people were taken off the streets and a couple of them were really suffering from substance use disorder themselves and so they needed help. But a couple of them were just dealing for the profit for greed and for money. However, even when they're taken off the street, a couple people pop up in their place, right? Right. And so it's just like a rat on a wheel with this problem that we're having. Yeah. Right.

Deric Kidd: 19:10

And it doesn't mean that you can stop. You, you know, you still want them off the street. And my preference would have been for that to stop. person to go to prison, but I hear what you're saying about, you know, the people that were dealing had problems themselves and you don't know what they were going through and it doesn't make it any easier when there's somebody that's involved in the death of your child, but if they're hooked on something, stuck on something, they're going to do anything that they can to try to get their fix. There's a lot of education that needs to go into addiction, especially when you're talking about something as strong as fentanyl. I feel sorry for those people and that includes the drug dealers that are on drugs themselves. They have their own story. I think they need to pay for their crime. They need help, but it's a fine line. You know, where do you draw the line? Because anybody that tries drugs and gets hooked on drugs can easily find themselves in that position where they will do anything for it, but it's just a matter of, you know, how you start.

Angela Kennecke: 20:03

It's true. It's so highly addictive and people don't really understand substance use disorder as a disease of the brain and what happens to the brain and how this becomes the most important thing to people once they're suffering from it. Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story on our new Emily's Hope Memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, and friends. So much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on morethanjustanumber. org. Derek and Kathy are working to raise awareness through their non profit, Become Their Voice. They founded the organization after losing their son, wanting to create a place where grieving families could find support. Now, they're also focused on educating others about mental health, substance use disorder, and the drug crisis.

Deric Kidd: 21:08

You know, we talk about pain into purpose. One of the things that helps you with your grief is finding something that helps fill your cup, that helps do something positive for you, that You can do maybe for yourself, but in the name of your child or the name of your loved one to give you a sense of purpose. And my passion has always been with the kids. I was a coach for 10 years. I coached high school kids for six years and. They got on my nerves, but I love them to death. But I really, I really care about and relate to these kids. So I wanted to do something to help them. And my wife and I, you know, worked on this nonprofit. We developed some presentations, not only for the students, but for the parents. It's been slow going because it's hard to get into the schools initially, but we have started to get into some of the local high schools and share our information and talk to the kids and we've had some pretty positive responses from them.

Kathy Kidd: 22:05

And it really is just getting out there and raising awareness. Like we said earlier, when Sebastian passed, we hadn't even heard the word. Fentanyl. And we still have people. We're in it all the time. And I'm sure, you know, like you, you think, Oh my gosh, doesn't everybody know about fentanyl? Because we talk about it, see it, hear it every day. But there's still so many people that have not even heard it.

Angela Kennecke: 22:29

You're right. The awareness really needs to continue. I feel like I've been doing this for six years and why doesn't everybody know? But they don't. I was just talking to someone from the DEA here this morning, and he was saying, I just don't understand. It's like two planes crashing out of the sky every day, the number of deaths that we have. Why this isn't getting more attention than it's getting? And I always say it's because of the stigma involved with either using drugs, taking drugs, experimenting with drugs, no matter what it is, it's that drug aspect of it. There's so much stigma around it is why people don't pay as much attention to it as we need to.

Kathy Kidd: 23:08

Exactly. As we've moved forward doing some speaking engagements and things like that, and we put things out on social media, you know, the comments, well, not my kid, my kid was a good kid, you know, just like you said, the stigma that goes with that. Well, our kid was. a great kid too, but occasionally there's going to be a poor decision made, a bad decision. We've got mental health. We should all know that coming out of COVID where the mental health situation is. I always say even good kids can

Angela Kennecke: 23:37

make a bad decision. Absolutely. You know, but they shouldn't have to pay for that with their life.

Deric Kidd: 23:42

Right. Well, we've all made bad decisions. Let's be honest. So nobody's perfect. So anybody that wants to judge Anybody for making a bad decision, I'm going to call them out on it.

Angela Kennecke: 23:51

It's interesting being here with parents who have all lost a child in the same way. Because when I've gone to other groups or spoken in front of people or whatever it is, I often have parents come up and say to me, I lost a child too, but it wasn't from drugs. In fact, I wrote an entire blog about it. Because I was like, it doesn't matter how you lost. Child loss is child loss. Why are you telling me that? Are you judging my child? Are you thinking I'm going to judge your child? I mean, it's just so bizarre to me that people have to clarify, Oh, but it wasn't from drugs, like your kid, you know?

Deric Kidd: 24:25

One of the things that we talk to the parents about in the presentation is we go through the different ways, you know, we talk about the stigma, we talk about the drugs. And them putting their own lives in danger as opposed to somebody that was texting and driving, drinking and driving. If they lost their life, well at least it wasn't to drugs. What is the difference? The stigma around drugs really drives this and I think that we have difficulty getting into schools because of it too because they don't want to necessarily have these conversations because then they're admitting that they have a problem. We were contacted by a couple schools specifically because they were having a problem. So, I think that eventually, if enough kids are struggling within the school or if they're having, you know, kids pass away, They might be a little more open to the conversation, but right now they don't want that in their school district.

Angela Kennecke: 25:12

Well, we know our kids are dying. We know fentanyl is the number one killer of young people. We know overdoses among teenagers have doubled in a three year period. We know it's happening everywhere. I've talked in huge districts and huge theaters, and I've also gone to smaller schools, and even in those smaller schools, they've had three overdoses that were revived of their students. They've caught kids with pills and different things like that. Kids are vaping as young as third grade. And we have to do more. That's why we started our Emily's Hope K 5 Substance Use Prevention Curriculum. And we're having an outpouring of schools that want it. So we have to start talking to kids younger. But that sort of idea, when you talk to mostly middle high school kids, when I go give a presentation, that's what I do as well. That idea that, oh, we can't talk about it here. We don't want to think it could happen here. It's happening everywhere. And there's no denying it.

Deric Kidd: 26:08

Right, right. The problem is, is they're not having the conversation even within the schools. And I'll give you an example. So we spoke at one And we had a panel afterwards, and we had a medical doctor up there, we had the SRO, the principal, and I think that, I don't know if the superintendent was up there or not, but I specifically asked the SRO if he had given out Narcan before, and he said at least 15 times, and the administration was shocked, so they didn't even know their SRO had given out Narcan that many times in their community, So if we can't have a conversation, an open conversation about it, then people, they aren't going to know what's going on. So we have to start with that. People have to be honest.

Kathy Kidd: 26:51

And having Narcan as a, as a resource is awesome, but it does skew the numbers though too. Because we're reviving people, we're not losing people. So I think we're seeing a decline in numbers, but we're still seeing an uptick in use.

Angela Kennecke: 27:04

Right. I think you're correct about that. They've said that 3 percent drop. in the number of deaths for last year really has to do with the distribution of Narcan, which we're doing a ton of at Emily's Hope. It's important to save lives, but it's also important to understand that the problem isn't going away just because we're doing a better job of stopping people from dying.

Deric Kidd: 27:23

Correct. Right. They're still left with the addiction if they're to that point.

Angela Kennecke: 27:28

Yes, and it's so important to get people help after they have overdosed and survived. And we are doing everything we can to do that as well. There are different things starting across the country with the use of this opioid settlement money. to try to get people help if they're willing and receptive to it. That's a big part of it as well. But I want to ask you a question about talking to kids, because I do it all the time, mostly in the spring and the fall though, sometimes in the winter, but mostly in the spring and the fall. And I tell them Emily's story and I go back there like, I just made you go back to your son's death when we were talking about it because I think it's so important that people understand, get the picture of what happened and understand the depths of your pain. And I hate to do that. Because I really do understand how re traumatizing it is. And I think a lot about myself when I'm talking to kids. I re traumatize myself every time I do it. And I think, but I need to do it because these kids need to hear it. They see a girl like Emily, they see her picture, they would see a kid like Sebastian and think, that can't happen to somebody like that. That person has everything going for them, that can't happen to them. But it can, it can happen to anybody in any family. But getting back to my question, Do you feel like you're re traumatizing yourselves when you talk about it? Do you think it's a healthy thing to

Deric Kidd: 28:41

do? For me it is. I force myself to do it. I remember an interview that they did with Billy Bob Thornton, and he talked about his brother passing away. And he talked about the pain that he lived with and that he endured, and he said, if I have to be 50 percent happy and 50 percent sad all the time, I'm gonna do it because he was worth it. And I agree with that. I like that. That's how I am. In my presentations, I have three videos of kids in there. They're very short, but they show their personalities. They're different kids from different demographics. One of them is our son. And it really displays their personality and at the end it shows the date that they died and it shows their urn. And the kids are a little taken back because I don't warn them, you know, and at the end I say that was my son. And then we show the other two kids and one of the gals says, I just want to raise awareness, mom. And she didn't realize how prophetic that was. She is. She is raising awareness. She's in our presentations, and she's in a lot of other things across the country, but it's still difficult for me, and I have gone through, you know, not just practice, but gone through the presentations over and over and over again, so when I give them, I still get a little emotional, I still get a little choked up, and for a second, once in a while, I have to just bite my tongue, you know, and, and come to grips with things, and then I can continue. But yes, it is a little traumatizing to watch those.

Angela Kennecke: 30:06

How about you, Kathy?

Kathy Kidd: 30:07

Absolutely. I think having the non profit going out and speaking, I know it's therapeutic for Derek. I don't find it to be therapeutic, to be honest with you, at all. There was so much more to Sebastian than fentanyl, and it just seemed like for so long, every time Sebastian's name was brought up, it was drugs. It's fentanyl. And I just got to the point where I just wanted to stop talking about that because I want to talk about Sebastian. You know, I want to talk about all the good things, the fun things, not just fentanyl.

Angela Kennecke: 30:37

I get that. When I end my presentations, I say, I don't want my daughter to be remembered for just how she died, for what killed her. I want her to be remembered as a whole person and all these amazing things that she did and who she was. And I do think because we're being so public about it. That that is what people really think about when they think about our kids is fentanyl. But it is important to talk about Sebastian. That's why I asked you right off the bat about him because I want people to know who he was, to have an idea of who he was. Yeah.

Deric Kidd: 31:10

But in the end, the people that it truly matters to know who he was. That's so true.

Angela Kennecke: 31:17

And you were also invited to the State of the Union.

Deric Kidd: 31:20

Yes.

Angela Kennecke: 31:21

Tell me about that. How did that come about? And what was that like?

Deric Kidd: 31:24

I've done a couple of speaking engagements with Congressman Zach Nunn and I got a call out of the blue. I didn't realize that it was him directly, but I had a voicemail to call back and I thought I was going to talk to his aide. He actually jumped on the phone and said, you know, Hey, we'd like to take you out here if you guys are available. So we jumped at the chance. Now, little did we know at the time that it was between us and Caitlin Clark. And I think she was busy with basketball. So we,

Angela Kennecke: 31:48

who can compete with Caitlin Bark? Nobody. We

Deric Kidd: 31:52

ended up getting the gig, but I'm not a big history buff, but it was an amazing experience. Absolutely amazing. And he was our personal tour guide and it was amazing.

Angela Kennecke: 32:02

Do you feel like you got. through to somebody about fentanyl. Do you think they're doing enough in Washington, D. C.?

Kathy Kidd: 32:10

No, not Washington, D. C. No, but I think that here in Iowa, I think Congressman Nunn for sure has taken a step forward on it. He speaks about it a lot and quite frequently. We've done a few things with the governor as well. She's just got a lot on her plate. She's got a lot of hot topics, I'm sure, but. I think more needs to be done. Washington, D. C. as a whole is not doing anything, in my opinion.

Angela Kennecke: 32:39

Well, they have put billions of dollars into this issue and are trying to stop the cartels where the money is. So the Department of Treasury is issuing sanctions and things like that, but Clearly not enough or we wouldn't continue to see these deaths and I think it's going to take everybody in this nation and everybody from all sectors, you know, business, private sector, government coming together on this issue to really protect our kids.

Deric Kidd: 33:05

Agreed. I do agree, but there's a lot of money involved and greed gets a handle on people and I think we're battling something that we can hope to limit. We can curb it a bit, but I think it's going to be a long road ahead. Agreed.

Angela Kennecke: 33:20

It's a complicated

Deric Kidd: 33:21

issue

Angela Kennecke: 33:22

because you're dealing with substance use disorder, you're dealing with the money, the greed, the cartels, the China, I mean, all of it, right? It's a complicated issue and it's really impacted the United States the most out of anywhere in the world. It's starting to show up more in other countries, but not nearly as much as what we've seen. And there is no quick, easy, simple solution. And I think that's what makes it so hard, because we are all trying to save other people's kids now. Our children are gone. And the whole reason for this podcast is to try to raise awareness and save other people's kids.

Kathy Kidd: 33:56

And that's where maybe we can't control the supply, but we need to control the demand. The mental health piece of it really needs to be talked about. We talk about that quite a bit. We're getting into. Good. Jargon that people talk about all the time that came through covid, you know, self-care, mental health, but it truly is the reason why people seek to numb out or to put a bandaid on a life situation temporarily. We did a presentation at a high school and were part of a several day self-care, and they were talking with the kids on alternative ways to. num out or zone or self care, whatever you want to call it, but they were talking about yoga and exercise and journaling and just what a great way and a great thing for a high school to focus on. The kids opened up, they had open discussions. I think if more schools would implement that and get more counselors on staff and things like that, I think it would be a step in the right direction for sure.

Angela Kennecke: 35:03

I love that because that's all in our curriculum as well, trying to teach kids ways to cope with their emotions and pressures because we have to cover the whole child. We can't just talk about one area. We've got to talk about their brains, we've got to talk about their bodies and protecting that, but also their emotions and the pressures and everything that they're under.

Deric Kidd: 35:18

We have to let them know that it's normal and it's okay to not be okay.

Angela Kennecke: 35:21

Yeah. Well, I really appreciate all the work you're doing. Thank you for talking to the students. Thank you for talking to me. Thank you for sharing Sebastian with us. And it has been just a pleasure to get to know you and to get to know your story. Thank you.

Deric Kidd: 35:35

Thank you for having us.

Angela Kennecke: 35:41

Thank you for taking the time to learn more about one of the most pressing issues facing our nation, the fentanyl crisis. Do you have an idea for a Grieving Out Loud episode? We'd love to hear it. You can find my contact information in the show notes. Thanks again for listening. Until next time. wishing you faith, hope and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wundenberg King and Michael Garron.