Angela Kennecke: 0:00

Hey there, this is Angela Kenecke and I just wanted to issue a warning before you listen to this podcast. We cover, of course, the very difficult subject of overdose, a child loss, and we also cover the subject of suicide, suicide attempts and suicidal thoughts. So please know, take caution as you listen to this episode and do what you need to take care of yourself. Your life dreams. Maybe they involve starting your own business, building a dream home, or nurturing a healthy marriage. For many, like Sandra Radford, the deepest dream is raising children.

Sandra Radford: 0:43

All I wanted in my life, leading up to that, was children and family.

Angela Kennecke: 0:49

But what happens when despite all of your hard work and dedication, those dreams come to nothing? To a screeching halt. I was

Sandra Radford: 0:56

trying to die. You were trying to die. I was trying.

Angela Kennecke: 1:00

Yet, despite all the heartache Sandra has suffered, she doesn't want her story to be defined by her struggles. Instead, she hopes it serves as an inspiration, but even when facing your worst nightmares, you just keep dreaming. Welcome to Grieving Out Loud. I'm your host, Angela Kenkey. If you or a loved one is struggling with substance use disorder or depression. we want you to know that help is available. Please don't wait. You can dial nine eight eight immediately. And you can also find the link of resources on our website, Emily's Hope dot charity. We posted a link in the show notes of this podcast. Sandra, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. It is really just a pleasure to connect with you, although your story is just so incredibly moving. devastating, yet you want to offer other people hope and I think that's why we're here today. We want to talk about that hope, but let's start off with a long time ago. What was it? More than 20 years ago when you first got pregnant with your children,

Sandra Radford: 2:12

right? I went through a five year journey of infertility. It was really gruesome. I had every test, surgery, everything there was. Finally, at that four and a half year mark, our only option was to have ENVY. Financially, it wasn't something that we could think about prior to that. But then there was a doctor a couple towns over who offered it with no anesthesia. I said, it doesn't matter, let's do this. Went through everything and I could not believe that it actually worked the first time. This is one thing that I like to share with people is that I actually saw my three children be conceived in the Petri dish. They took out my eggs and they did that procedure and called me and said, you've got three perfect embryos. We went on a Tuesday morning, so I went back Friday morning for the implantation. At first, they told me I was not pregnant. And then the nurse, she called me back. She said, I started to throw your chest away and it turned just a little bit pink. So we think you're pregnant. Like, oh gosh, you think? I just took it and the beautiful sign and owned it and said, I'm pregnant. Yes, I was pregnant with your foot.

Angela Kennecke: 3:52

Sandra says the first few months of her pregnancy went smoothly, but at her five month appointment, she received devastating news. Two of her babies had died,

Sandra Radford: 4:06

but there was one strong heartbeat. And I said, okay, we're not gonna be down about this. This is fabulous. We have one. And from that point forward. The pregnancy couldn't have been any better. It was terrific.

Angela Kennecke: 4:28

On March 3, 1994, Sandra gave birth to a beautiful little girl after a very difficult labor. I

Sandra Radford: 4:37

had a 24 hour long labor and ended up with emergency c section. Actually, we both almost died. I mean, during the labor. and come to find out the cord was wrapped around her neck twice so tightly that, you know, time was of the essence. It was just a good thing they got her out when they did because she wasn't breathing. I just remember with all my might putting my hand on my husband's shoulder and pushing him to just go make sure she's okay. And we were one of the only couples that this doctor had delivered for that did not know. The gender of the baby. I said, we have gone through so much. I don't want to know. I would love to have a surprise. So she asked us to give the names. And she said, you've got a Samantha Hope. And I couldn't be happier. But yeah, she was so very healthy. Always very healthy.

Angela Kennecke: 5:40

So when did the trouble begin with Samantha Hope?

Sandra Radford: 5:44

Her dad and I separated just before her fourth birthday. She was just an awesome kid. She adapted. It was really hard in the beginning, but she adapted really well.

Angela Kennecke: 6:02

But Sandra says that her daughter, Hope, who she always called by her middle name, started to struggle after her dad began a new relationship and had another baby. Hope was then diagnosed with ADHD in third grade, followed by bipolar disorder when she was 10.

Sandra Radford: 6:19

Fast forward, at age 13 is when my nephew gave her alcohol and marijuana for the first time. at age 13 shortly after that is when one of my nephew's friends, 28 year old, sexually assaulted.

Angela Kennecke: 6:38

So she had the introduction of substances and then sexual abuse at that very tender age. And we know both of those things can set someone up for substance use disorder. Right. Did you know about the sexual assault or did you learn of it later? Not for

Sandra Radford: 6:54

four months. He told her that if she told anyone. that he would kill me and my mother. I noticed a big change in her, but you know, 13, thought it was teenage angst. Finally, she told me about it and we were able to get him prosecuted, but she was reliant upon marijuana. She was self medicating with that. And then at age 15, She got beat up very badly at school because she tried to intervene with a bully and took her to the emergency room. She had a concussion, she had fractured ribs, and they prescribed her Percocet. Percocet

Angela Kennecke: 7:43

at age 15. So she'd already, her brain was already set up for substances by using the marijuana at such a young age. And then she's prescribed a powerful painkiller, an opioid. At age 15, is that what led to her opioid addiction?

Sandra Radford: 7:59

Four months later was her first overdose. I had no idea. It was just after her 16th birth. Took me three months, but I got her into a rehab facility. And she had such a great attitude. She said, Mom, everything's gonna be great. And it was. And she was great for a couple years. And then she had a breakup with a boyfriend, lost her job on the same day, and the very person who pumped her chest and kept her alive through that first overdose handed her a painkiller, one painkiller, and that's all it took.

Angela Kennecke: 8:47

At 18, Hope fell deep into addiction. First, she started abusing prescription painkillers, and soon spiraled into a full blown heroin addiction.

Sandra Radford: 8:58

She had gotten a job, met a boy there. who unbeknownst to us was a heroin addict and when they ran out of money for pills, you know, she was very, very dope sick. And he said, I know what can help us, but this is how you have to do it. And she said, I don't care. Just anything to keep me from feeling how I'm feeling. and that's when the heroin began.

Angela Kennecke: 9:26

Within two months of trying heroin, 18 year old Hope was not only grappling with severe substance use disorder, but she and her boyfriend also turned to stealing items to fund their addiction. After being caught, Hope was placed on probation.

Sandra Radford: 9:45

And they told her just go to a couple meetings every week. There was really no type plan for her as far as therapy. This was one thing that really killed me, though, is that the therapist that she had all those years when Hope overdosed, she said, I can't treat you anymore. So this was this friend that she had had for 10 years of her life, and she no longer could see her because she wasn't schooled in substance use. So that was a big blow to her as well.

Angela Kennecke: 10:23

Did she ever talk to you about her use? Was she honest with you? Did she tell you? What was happening and why? He did. She did. That's one thing I have to say about my daughter is that there's a lot. I didn't know that she didn't share with me because she was ashamed, I think, and worried about my reaction. I'm glad that you knew. But it sounds to me like Hope's life continued to spiral out of control.

Sandra Radford: 10:47

Did. And their answer was, let's put her in prison. If she can't pass a drug test, we're just gonna put her in prison.

Angela Kennecke: 10:56

We're not talking a county jail here, right? We're talking prison. How old was she when she went to a woman's prison? 19. Just 19. And what do you think that did to her?

Sandra Radford: 11:08

I just need to say that Hope was so brilliant. She's so intelligent. He didn't have, like, artistical talent, her talents were with people, you know, she was just a magnificent person. So we had really high hopes, and I guess not even three weeks passed, and she ended up using again. At one point, I just said, Honey, why can't you just stop? And she said, Mom, I don't know, I fight it, and I fight it, and I fight it, and I get through. And I'm okay for a few weeks. And then, you know, she said something just makes me want it so bad that I cannot control that. And she came to me at two o'clock in the morning. She had brought her cell phone and it had been close to three weeks. And she said, Mom, I'm getting that feeling again. Can you find me somewhere to go? And I called every place there was and she met no one's No one would take her and within days she was using no help out there for her.

Angela Kennecke: 12:34

For three years, Hope was in and out of prison, fighting her addiction. Sandra very vividly remembers one of the conversations she had with her daughter when she picked her up from prison.

Sandra Radford: 12:47

On the way back, we got lost. I didn't know that she knew the way home. She had so much that she wanted to say to me. And my biggest takeaway was. Mom, this is not your fault. Absolutely nothing that you have ever done caused me to start using drugs. And I need you to know that. And it was like a cleansing. Her future was right there. She was re enrolling in college. She was gonna get a part time job. I told her she didn't even have to work. If she went, you know, just go on to college. We spent eight hours on what should have been a two hour drive eating home. that she did a lot of talking. I did a lot of listening, and I really believe that the Lord blessed me with that day.

Angela Kennecke: 13:44

While Sandra was optimistic about her daughter's future, unfortunately, life had other plans. At 22, hope relapsed, and the combination of heroin and meth turned out to be deadly.

Sandra Radford: 13:59

She had been Cleaned for so long that the bottom line is that she just took too much.

Angela Kennecke: 14:08

And that is not unusual for someone who relapses to go back to a dose they previously took, but they can't handle it and they end up dying from overdose. That's not an unusual story and I know like this is your only child. You've dedicated your life to her. She was so wanted, I know you were devastated,

Sandra Radford: 14:29

right? Her boyfriend was with her. that night. They came in, she came over, hugged me, kissed me, good night mama, see you in the morning, excited about tomorrow. She was enrolling in college. He came out of the bedroom that morning and I thought his behavior was off. I said, is she ready to go? He said, she's not awake yet, which was odd because she was always up early. I walk into the bedroom and I turned around and unbeknownst to me, he had Apparently woke up to her being passed away and he took the sheet and folded it down the middle of her back and when I turned around and looked, I said, what are those bruises on her? And she still wasn't answering me and I walked and I was three feet away from her and I could feel the cold radiating off her body and I went to turn around and I was just no, no, no, no, no, no. It was too late. She died probably within 45 minutes after she kissed me goodnight.

Angela Kennecke: 15:45

How traumatic and how devastating. And the depths of your pain led you to use substances as well.

Sandra Radford: 15:58

Yes. A year prior, I had had surgery on my right foot. And, It didn't go well, and I ended up having to have another surgery, and I had to work through all that, and I was a manager, so I was on my feet all day, and it was incredibly painful, so at that time, I already had a prescription for opioid, and I couldn't take enough to take the pain away. He died on Monday. We got her back from Raleigh on Thursday. The service was on Sunday and they expected me back to work on Wednesday. So I had a total of nine days off. You know, it's the age old story. You keep using, that dosage doesn't help, so you take more and more and more. And then I did what, you know, the unthinkable and started having to fund my happiness in other ways, which Let you charges, criminal charges, then it can be

Angela Kennecke: 17:14

for theft was your conviction for theft, right? So you were stealing were you getting pills off the streets? Yes, you were Were you worried that you were going to also die or did you not care because of the horrible grief of losing your daughter?

Sandra Radford: 17:30

Oh, it's trying to die.

Angela Kennecke: 17:32

You were trying to die.

Sandra Radford: 17:33

I was trying

Angela Kennecke: 17:35

you know, this makes me so sad Sandra because I I I knew a mother whose son had died a few weeks before Emily, and she had tried to complete suicide a couple of times. She attempted suicide twice. I heard her talk about it in a court case, and she talked about it to me. And I had said, you know, you're still here for a purpose. And she was, of course, devastated, as we all are, by the loss of our children. And then she ended up taking, uh, a deadly dose of fentanyl and dying shortly after that. I wrote a blog called Collateral Damage. It's on our website. But I was so devastated by that because I do think I know of another mother who drank herself to death after her son's overdose death. And I can understand. Why people would turn to substances themselves, even though that's what killed their child because they don't really care, right? They don't and they don't want to live anymore and they just want to be out of both in your case Emotional and physical pain,

Sandra Radford: 18:36

right? Yes, and there was so much pressure on me to be Me both of my parents did I just want my Sandra back. No one would talk with me about Everyone acted as though nothing happened and expected me just go on with life As if nothing happened, I went to a therapist and he told me to pretend that she was in another country studying abroad at college.

Angela Kennecke: 19:12

Well, that doesn't seem like very good advice. It sounds to me like you didn't get the right kind of help.

Sandra Radford: 19:18

No, I said, how am I supposed to get the image of that morning out of my mind?

Angela Kennecke: 19:28

To make things even more difficult for Sandra, her 30 year old stepson also died in 2021, with drugs playing a role in his death as well.

Sandra Radford: 19:44

He had broken away from a relationship and it was actually the day before my birthday, October 22nd, and he texted me early in the morning and he said, I'm sitting down here in your field. I said, well, come in the house. And he was with Hope when she died. It was the first time that he was able to talk to me about her. And we spent the day talking about that type of thing that morning. And he said, I have got to go. I lost a piece off my motorcycle. I've got to go find it. I said, why don't you let me drive and you can look. He said, no, no, no. I really am feeling the need just to get out there and ride. And I said, okay. He said, but I'll be back in 45 minutes. He didn't come and about 11 o'clock that night, I got a call that about four hours after he had left my house, he crashed his motorcycle into a tree at a hundred miles an hour and it killed him. I later found out and just done a shot of fentanyl

Angela Kennecke: 20:55

before the accident

Sandra Radford: 20:56

or the accident.

Angela Kennecke: 21:03

Despite her compound grief, Sandra did eventually get help. But not until after her fourth attempt to take her own life.

Sandra Radford: 21:13

After my fourth attempt, I woke up. I mean, I had it down to a science pendulum. And I woke up the next morning and I felt better than I had in years. And I said, okay God, enough of this. You have got to go mean what you want me to do with the rest of my life because I don't know where to go from here. I don't know how to take another step forward. And about two to three days later, I was on Facebook, which I was not into social media at all back then. And I stumbled across Shatterproof. And

Angela Kennecke: 21:54

we've had the founder of Shatterproof on this podcast, so I know a little bit about that organization. And what was it about Shatterproof that inspired you or gave you your hope back?

Sandra Radford: 22:07

The support of the entire organization 24 7. no judgment, no stigma, you know, just incredibly supportive. And it started giving me a direction and I founded Hope's Hope.

Angela Kennecke: 22:25

Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story on our new Emily's Hope Memorial website called More Than Just a Number. They were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles, And friends, so much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on more than just a number.org. Sandra created hope's hope to raise awareness about substance use disorder and prevent drug overdoses. She also wants to offer support to others who are grieving.

Sandra Radford: 23:07

And my first event was a 5K down in Atlanta and it was just also exciting. And then I also got to mentor. another mom who not only lost her husband, but her son within a short period of time. And at that point, I was like, okay, this is it. Hope's dream was to become a counselor and counsel at risk youth to help them avoid substance use disorder. And I thought, okay, I can do this. This is what I will do in her honor. I will carry her torch. And that is what I am. been trying to do every sin.

Angela Kennecke: 23:55

At the same time, Sandra says she's managed to stop using opioids even without the help of medically assisted treatment. However, this is very difficult and if you're suffering from opioid use disorder, you should seek help from an expert. Medically assisted treatment can be the very best path to take.

Sandra Radford: 24:19

I do want to point out that I do not recommend that anybody try to come off of any type of opioid with some type of assistance because it is brutal. And it would have been so easy to just say, Oh, please let me not hurt like this and take another pill. But I didn't. I didn't. Wow. That I was spoken to that day. The last time that I tried to suicide and got pointed in the right direction. So I knew it was just something I had to do.

Angela Kennecke: 24:56

What did your experience with addiction make you understand about your daughter's experience with addiction?

Sandra Radford: 25:04

I understood 100 percent why. Because she too had pain that she was dealing with. Hers was her internal pain from the rape. Mali. Mali. was physical, but then the pain of losing her was, that was a physical pain, not just emotional and mental. I heard, don't know how to explain it, but I hurt so bad that no amount, well, only large amounts would help. So yes, it made me 100 percent understand what she went through, and it made It was almost as though it helped me get through, you know, I lived everything she lived and I better equipped to handle the rest of my future. And I have an understanding of why what happened did now because I was in such denial. I still have a lot of days when I just don't accept it.

Angela Kennecke: 26:19

Even though Sandra still faces difficult days, she says her mental health has improved drastically. She no longer struggles with suicidal thoughts. Well thank goodness. We know that that is a disease of the brain. We know that it is a mental illness and certainly it can be brought on by circumstances. Not always, but it certainly can be. And I think that it's so hard to understand where the human mind is. I don't know that, you know, everyone who is able to follow through that path really intends to die. I don't understand. It's a horrible, dark place.

Sandra Radford: 27:01

Just you want the pain to end so badly. And I didn't really feel that I had very much work to do. to live for because all I wanted in my life leading up to that was children and family and it took everything away from me. So, I'm having to redefine my entire life as to what I want my future to be because I found a purpose to live.

Angela Kennecke: 27:37

And have you found that purpose?

Sandra Radford: 27:38

Yeah, and it's through advocating for overdose awareness and fentanyl poisoning prevention. I'm a member of several Facebook groups. Right now, the Drug Epidemic Memorial Wall, I decided to take on a project with them. I just get involved in anything that I can.

Angela Kennecke: 28:02

It strikes me that you would be a good peer support specialist as well, not only for grieving parents who've been through what we've been through. but also for people in recovery, for people in active addiction, seeking recovery.

Sandra Radford: 28:16

Like, because I have been through all of it.

Angela Kennecke: 28:19

You've been through all of it.

Sandra Radford: 28:20

Man.

Angela Kennecke: 28:22

All of this, I mean the grief and all of this loss, it can feel really depressing and really awful, right?

Sandra Radford: 28:31

It does. It is. And it's something that every day I have to do my best to find purpose. And I do that. I honor Hope. I do different videos. I spend time with her every day. I'm actually writing a book and I did just sign with a publisher. I have to get this out. There's so much stigma around how she died that I want people to know Hope, the person, how she lived. I have an innate sadness that I don't believe will ever go away.

Angela Kennecke: 29:06

Can you live with it?

Sandra Radford: 29:08

Manageable now. It's tolerable.

Angela Kennecke: 29:11

You can live with it.

Sandra Radford: 29:12

I can live with it. And next month will be eight years. And it's really hard. I mean, in March, she should have turned 30.

Angela Kennecke: 29:23

Yeah, I understand that.

Sandra Radford: 29:25

I see the girls, her friends, being married, having families of their own, and that's all Hope ever wanted. I did start college two years ago.

Angela Kennecke: 29:38

You did? I did. So you're doing something that she wanted to do, but wasn't able to do.

Sandra Radford: 29:44

I'm studying criminal justice. with emphasis on forensics.

Angela Kennecke: 29:52

Along with studying criminal justice, Sandra hopes her story can inspire others struggling with substance use disorder to seek recovery. Even though she knows it can be difficult.

Sandra Radford: 30:10

There is only hard work in recovery, but it can happen. I need people to know that it can happen and it will happen. Yes, you have to put a lot of work into it, but the reward at the other end is phenomenal when you realize what you've overcome.

Angela Kennecke: 30:32

Well, you have overcome a tremendous amount. And on that note. We will wrap up this podcast. I just, I wish you health and happiness and that you can continue to move forward in hope's honor.

Sandra Radford: 30:50

And that's what I am doing. That is my life's work now and to raise awareness because I don't want anybody else to build this. I don't want anyone else to ever be me. This is the parent nightmare, so, but there is. Yep,

Angela Kennecke: 31:11

that's what you have to keep alive is that glimmer of hope for others. You can't have it for your own child any longer, but you have to have it for other people's children.

Sandra Radford: 31:20

Absolutely.

Angela Kennecke: 31:21

But together as moms, we're going to keep fighting this fight and hopefully save more lives. So thank you.

Sandra Radford: 31:28

Thank you so much. It's been my honor.

Angela Kennecke: 31:36

And thank you for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. If you found it helpful, please leave a positive review and share it with your family and friends. Join us again next week for a new episode. Until then, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Kacey Muilenburg King and Michael Garron.