[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: Welcome to Grieving Out Loud. I'm your host, Angela Kennecke. Chances are you or someone you love has struggled with addiction. The latest data from the National Survey of Drug Use and Health reveals that more than 46 million Americans suffer from substance use disorder. 

[00:00:26] Sarah Spier: And then it's why they say chasing the dragon.

I mean, once you do it, you chase that high. 

[00:00:34] Tom Wolf: Addiction actually implants itself in your basic brain functions of your survival instinct. And of course, every time that I would prioritize that I felt more and more guilt, more and more shame, I was beating myself up. Because I felt bad that I couldn't be there for my kids.

I felt bad that when it was time to read a bedtime story to my daughter, I was passing out. 

[00:00:54] Angela Kennecke: In addition to the millions of people addicted to drugs or alcohol, millions more struggle with a family member or friend suffering from the disease. It's not just spouses and parents, but all too often children who have to deal with it.

According to research from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, about one in eight children live in a house with at least one parent who suffers from substance use disorder. 

[00:01:21] Baleigh Cerv: Because oftentimes, like, kids are overworked in addiction. The person that's addicted, they don't realize, like, what they're doing to that child.

And children know way more of that, that's going on, you know.

[00:01:39] Angela Kennecke: Think back to your childhood. Maybe you remember a classmate who misbehaved. Did you know it was happening at home? In Bailey Serv's case, she struggled with living with a father who suffered from alcohol addiction and was abusive. Here her unique perspective in this episode of Grieving Out 

[00:01:57] Baleigh Cerv: Loud. I saw more than your addiction and I'm so sorry that I couldn't help you more than I tried to.

You know, I just said, I forgive you. I remember the good dad and like, I just, I hope you're at peace.

[00:02:16] Angela Kennecke: Hi Bailey. Thank you so much for reaching out to me. I am very excited to share. Your perspective, I think is painful and troubling as it may be, because I think so many other people can learn from you and also it can help people understand that substance use disorder affects so many children. Not only do they lose their parents to the disease often when they're very young, but also growing up in a home where someone suffers from substance use disorder.

They can't be a full parent to you, you know, the way a child would want or need. So I think it's very important that we talk about this and that people understand how substance use disorder affects millions and millions of families and millions of children. 

[00:03:04] Baleigh Cerv: Very important. 

[00:03:06] Angela Kennecke: Bailey grew up in the small town of Winter, South Dakota with a big family.

Her mom and dad had four kids. Bailey was the oldest. Some of her earliest memories involve her dad and his substance of choice. Alcohol. 

[00:03:22] Baleigh Cerv: I didn't know drinking and driving were illegal. I didn't learn that till I got to school because it was just so normal for me. My dad would pick me up from school and we would stop at the liquor store and he would drink on the way home.

He would drink all night. I had no idea that wasn't normal. I think I was about fourth grade before I realized that. And as time went on, my dad became abusive. So, that's what I vividly remember from him the most is, like, the person he turned into when he was drinking and how I could recognize that.

before it was gonna happen just by like the tone of the way my dad was acting or. The amount he was drinking, like it was very detrimental. 'cause I, that anxiety of knowing what was gonna come, those were kind of the first things I remember. I knew how bad it was the older I got. But as a young child, I didn't realize like my dad falling a asleep on the couch at six o'clock at night with him passing out, you know, stuff like that.

[00:04:17] Angela Kennecke: Well sure, and as a child you have no perspective, right? So if your dad picks you up from school and stops and buys alcohol along the way and is drinking it in the car. You don't know that that's not what you're supposed to do. You don't know that that isn't happening in every home. 

[00:04:33] Baleigh Cerv: Right, right. I didn't.

I had no idea.

[00:04:40] Angela Kennecke: But as Bailey got older, she sensed something wasn't right, especially as her father became increasingly abusive. Her reaction? Try to take care of the rest of the family. 

[00:04:51] Baleigh Cerv: I think as the oldest sibling anyway, you kind of take that second mother role, but my siblings were my whole life. Like, I knew I would worry about my mom and the fights and abuse would happen and my dad would drink.

But I knew my mom could take care of herself, so I took it upon myself, you know, to make sure I got those kids where they needed to be. But I just kind of went revital mode. When the fighting would get bad and the abuse, I would scoop the kids up and lock them in the bathroom. You know, if nights got really bad, I'd go get the little handheld telephone and call my grandma who lived in town because we didn't live in town.

[00:05:22] Angela Kennecke: Bailey's home life began affecting her school life as well. Beginning in first grade, she found herself constantly worried about the safety of her younger siblings, making it difficult to focus in class. 

[00:05:35] Baleigh Cerv: I would go to school and I cried every single day. I just wanted to go home. I didn't know what was going on at home.

And it was just that anxiety of not having my mom right there where I could see her and my siblings. I got sent to the office every day. I would have to sit in the counselor's office. 

[00:05:52] Angela Kennecke: Didn't they know what was going on at home? Like when you were crying, you were being sent to the counselor's office. Was Child Protective Services ever called in?

You know, was anybody ever alerted? 

[00:06:02] Baleigh Cerv: Nope. I was always in trouble because I was being disrupted in class. No matter how quiet I tried to like, you know, sob to myself, I'd get in trouble. And this was mostly first grade. No one ever asked me what was going on. Like, I would sit in the counselor's office, they'd let me call my mom and talk to my mom.

Like, that was gonna make me feel better, you know, and it never did. But No, no one ever asked me, why are you crying like this? I think they all thought I was just like trying to get attention or something. I couldn't care less about the attention. Yeah, 

[00:06:30] Angela Kennecke: that seems like such a travesty. Like it is really the role of those first reporters, right?

They're supposed to be on the forefront. Do you think it was because it was a small community and they didn't want to know? Do you think, I mean, I'm just wondering what do you think the dynamics were? 

[00:06:47] Baleigh Cerv: So I think My parents did a very good job of, like, hiding it. A lot of people had no idea my dad had a problem, even to the day he passed.

Yeah, because he was a business owner. He coached a lot of our sport, softball, basketball, baseball. I mean, he was a very active person. He drove a race car at the racetrack. People really, really loved my dad. 

[00:07:08] Angela Kennecke: So he was a functioning alcoholic. 

[00:07:10] Baleigh Cerv: Oh, extremely. Yep. So my parents always put on that we're put together kind of thing.

But I don't know if that's what the case was, or they just didn't. I don't think that that's what was going on. I don't know. 

[00:07:24] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Well, right. Nobody was there really to rescue you from the situation. But I do think that children, uh, people who suffer from substance use disorder internalize so much. Did you feel like you internalized his behavior?

[00:07:41] Baleigh Cerv: Kind of. My thing was always making sure like everyone was taken care of. My needs never came first. You know what I mean? I just worried constantly. I agree. And I had my great grandparents. My great grandma was, like, my saving light. She was really the one that listened, and, you know, her hug just instantly made my life better.

I would always turn to her, too, for my support. And I think my grandma knew, but her hands were tied, because, you know, there's only so much you can do or say to try to protect a person.

[00:08:14] Angela Kennecke: Sadly, as Bailey entered her upper elementary years, the abuse got worse. She says the family suffered both mentally and physically. 

[00:08:22] Baleigh Cerv: My dad was very manipulative. He had a lot going on mentally that he didn't ever lead on to. And the further the diction, the more I noticed. But, yeah, he was physically abusive to my mom.

There were times I thought he was going to kill my mother. He'd pull her hair, like, punch her in the face. And this was times, like, he was really, really intoxicated. Like, you could just see, he'd get that look in his eyes. It your anger and it could have been over anything. This is in the sink. It was just like he flipped a switch and then the abuse would start.

Usually the verbal abuse was just normal kind of fighting like my parents would always fight because everyone was always worried about my dad and my mom would fight because she was worried about us you know and it just got to the point where I thought he was gonna kill her many times and my mom was so hurt.

Manipulated to like, you know, brainwashed in a way. She was so afraid to breathe. 

[00:09:16] Angela Kennecke: Well, it's hard. People get into those relationships and they don't know how to get out and there's a codependency that occurs. When Bailey was 10, her parents divorced. It may surprise you, but Bailey chose to spend much of her time with her dad despite his addiction and abuse.

[00:09:34] Baleigh Cerv: I kind of grew up really fast because I kind of took the role of staying with my dad. They knew someone had to take care of him. I think, in a way, you never want to see your parents as a bad person. 

[00:09:48] Angela Kennecke: And I don't think someone who suffers from substance use disorder is a bad person. No. Their behavior, I mean, it's a disease of the brain.

You know, they're, you know now, but their behavior can be horribly troubling. 

[00:10:00] Baleigh Cerv: Right. And I never saw my dad. Like, I knew he had a problem. But he was still my dad. Like, I was close with him and we were a lot in ways. Like, I was really into basketball and that was his sport. So we bonded over that. I loved to be outside and garden and that kind of thing.

I did 4 H growing up, so working with cattle, just going to the farm. Those were my kind of things that my dad and I shared interest in. You know, I kind of struggled in school and I had really bad anxiety. So did he. So I felt like I could relate to him that way. Because for my mom, school was easy. She didn't suffer from those kinds of things like we did.

And my dad never really admitted he had the anxiety, and I didn't know I had it either until I was an adult. But looking back now, I think that's why he could relate to me a lot, and I think that's why sports were my outlet, kind of. I threw myself into everything growing up. There really wasn't anything I wasn't involved in that I could have been involved in, because that's how I dealt with things.

[00:10:56] Angela Kennecke: Because you sort of identified with your dad. Did you drink or ever drink with him? I mean sometimes children do do that because they identify with that parent. 

[00:11:09] Baleigh Cerv: No, I never did. That was something he was very stern about. It was shocking, but he would always say that don't drink, don't, don't do that, you know, and The more I found out, he told me towards the end, he started drinking when he was 12 years old with his dad, with my grandpa, and so I think he was already so afraid that it could be us, because he knew he had a problem.

It was just, he never admitted it till the end. 

[00:11:35] Angela Kennecke: And in your dad's case, if he started drinking at age 12, I mean, long before his brain was fully developed, he was set up for addiction. And then if you have those genes, and you very well could carry those genes, You know, it has to do with several factors, personality factors, genes, age of first use, all of these things contribute to someone suffering from this.

So after the divorce and then you sort of wanted to take care of your dad, what happened after that? 

[00:12:01] Baleigh Cerv: So there for a couple years, it got pretty bad. I don't think my dad really knew what to do without my mom. They went to court, got 50 50 custody of our kids so we could pick when we wanted to come and go from our parents.

So I chose to stay with my dad quite a bit because I knew, like, There was times he would pass out outside. There was times, like, for me, I would get the mail and see like, Oh, the utilities are past you. Stuff like that. I knew I had to be there to be like, Hey, you need to sign this check, we need milk, you know.

I taught myself how to do laundry, and my dad would get up and go to work every morning. He was very functional, despite the things that went on the night before. But, yeah. Living with my dad in that time was kind of scary for me because there was people I didn't know coming around more often. 

[00:12:45] Angela Kennecke: Are you passionate about keeping kids safe and informed?

Emily's Hope is proud to introduce our K 5 Substance Use Prevention Curriculum. Designed to educate young minds about the dangers of substance use, this engaging program lays the foundation for a healthy future. Visit emilyshopedu. org to learn more and help bring this vital resource to your local schools.

Encourage your school administrators and counselors to explore our curriculum today. It's part of our mission. Together, we can make a difference.

Despite the hardships with her dad, Bailey was grateful to have other strong and supportive family members nearby, including her grandparents and great grandparents. 

[00:13:34] Baleigh Cerv: They were kind of my safe places and they kind of When I think about my childhood sometimes, I think about them and all the things they took it to do.

And like, my dad did do fun things with us. So I try to just remember that instead of, you know, the bad times. We did go on family vacations and my siblings and I were so close that, you know, we played with each other all the time. 

[00:13:55] Angela Kennecke: So it wasn't all bad is what you're saying. No. But I do 

[00:13:57] Baleigh Cerv: think 

[00:13:58] Angela Kennecke: a child who grows up in a home where there's substance use disorder does need to have, like you talked about, your great grandparents or your grandparents.

You need to have some sort of positive influence, somebody who's telling you and building you up and somebody who's helping you cope with things or you won't survive those circumstances. Right, 

[00:14:20] Baleigh Cerv: right. I leaned on my mom a lot and now I have a wonderful stepdad and, you know, those are the things that really did help and like the closeness of my siblings and I.

You know, we never had to say it, but we all know, like, in that split second, we're going to be there for each other, and it's still like that as adults today, so I'm always thankful for that, and like, I think what we went through got us to where we are. I always say in my struggles, I wouldn't be who I am without it, so I, I'm kind of thankful in a way I had to do that.

[00:14:49] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, to be grateful for the suffering. You know, that's something that I think it's hard to get to that place. You don't feel it at the time, right? But then you see how it molds you and shapes you into the person you are today. Bailey definitely had her share of suffering growing up. In 7th grade, her dad moved an hour and a half away to Highmore, South Dakota.

While you may think this would be a relief, she says it only caused more problems. 

[00:15:16] Baleigh Cerv: My dad was a highly thought tractor mechanic. He was one of the only mechanics in the state to have the certifications that he had. And he was very knowledgeable about tractors. He was very good at his job. He was offered a job he couldn't really resist and I think he knew he needed to get out of this area to find new people, you know, and then it kind of got worse.

He ended up losing his job up there due to his addiction and that's kind of when things started to fall apart. He moved back my freshman year of high school and he was doing alright. He got his old job back. He had sold our business. We went back to where he originally started working and worked with my grandpa.

His dad worked there. And he was engaged to a woman he met in Highmark. He was wonderful. If you could ask for a stepmom, like she was the model person. So when he moved back, that kind of fell apart and this other woman entered our lives. And she knew how vulnerable he was, introduced him to opioids. They were caught running drugs across county lines, switching license plates on cars.

She got caught trying to steal machinery. 

[00:16:22] Angela Kennecke: Didn't you believe he became addicted to opioids then? 

[00:16:25] Baleigh Cerv: I do. So He didn't come to my high school graduation. Of course he made like a big social media post about it being everybody else's fault that he wasn't there, you know. The one thing that really ended it for me that I realized I needed to maybe remove my dad from my life is when I was a sophomore in high school, my brother and I, we got in a car accident.

I ended up getting pretty roughed up. I hit my head and I hurt my arm and they called the ambulance because I had such terrible pain. I was so out of it and I had neck pain, so I remember them saying, You need to stay awake. Can you call anybody? And my mom said, Well, she needs to call her dad, because part of that is if there's ever an emergency, they have to let each other know.

Well, I knew it was past, you know, five o'clock at night. He probably wasn't going to answer because he never did, no matter how many times you called him. So I called him about, I don't know, four times in the back of the ambulance trying to get a hold of him to tell him, you know, I'm going to the hospital, I'm hurt.

And I finally got him after like five times and I could tell he was drunk and I just said dad We're gonna car after that and I was crying and I said, I'm on my way to the hospital I would really appreciate if you could be there because I just kind of it's a moment. You need your dad I was talking to him and he thought you know what happened.

Are you gonna be? Okay, and I don't know what's going on dad I don't know and that that time his wife grabbed a phone and started screaming at me telling me that I was lying That I was just trying to manipulate my dad. He said some horrible things, like, She better hope she never leaves me or she'll kill me, like, And I just said, at the end of that phone call, I said, If my dad doesn't come to the hospital, don't ever talk to me again.

And I was in the hospital for five hours, and he never came, so that was kind of it for me.

[00:18:08] Angela Kennecke: Bailey went more than five years without seeing her dad. During that time, she graduated from high school and college, and then moved back to her hometown of Winter, South Dakota. 

[00:18:19] Baleigh Cerv: I was working at the local nursing home, and I got a call at the front desk that said my dad was being brought into the hospital.

And I didn't know what was going on. So I decided I was gonna go in and just see what was going on and that's when I, I couldn't believe what I saw. It was just like a shower of a person. He was skin and bone. I mean, he was never a big person anyway. I mean, I think he was like six foot, maybe 160, 70 pounds at the most, but he was just skin and bone.

His face was sunken, his eyes were dark. He was having such bad withdrawals that they had to pad the bed and restrain him because he was thrashing so hard. And of course he was very, very, very confused when I asked what was going on. He tried to tell me he had fallen down and hit his head, which, I mean, he might have, but that's not what the cause was.

And he couldn't even get up to use the bathroom. And I looked over at his little side table there, and there was papers for Yankton's Behavioral Health. So he could go detox. And then I kinda 

[00:19:26] Angela Kennecke: At that point, Bailey's dad entered a treatment center. While he was able to quit using opioids, Bailey says he continued to struggle with alcohol.

[00:19:37] Baleigh Cerv: Over the next, what, three, four years, he was in and out. He would do really well. My dad suffered from severe anxiety, like, extremely severe, and the older I got, the more I realized, like, I see it because I've dealt with it myself. 

[00:19:52] Angela Kennecke: Don't you think, though, Bailey, that sometimes substance use also causes the anxiety?

[00:19:57] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah. 

[00:19:57] Angela Kennecke: I mean, I think you could have a level of anxiety to begin with, but the substance use actually makes it much, much worse. 

[00:20:03] Baleigh Cerv: Oh, yeah, for sure. And he was already struggling before that. He suffered so bad, to the point, like, he'd making puffs thick. Just from anxiety. 

[00:20:12] Angela Kennecke: So he was probably self medicating.

[00:20:14] Baleigh Cerv: Yep. 

[00:20:14] Angela Kennecke: By drinking and then later opioids. 

[00:20:17] Baleigh Cerv: Yep. So I think he had that kind of mentality and then putting a depressant on someone that's already depressed. Not good for your mind. 

[00:20:25] Angela Kennecke: Right. So ultimately, even after going through treatment and then going back to alcohol, what caused his death? 

[00:20:33] Baleigh Cerv: The first time my dad had ever admitted himself to Decox and Yankton, he spiked a fever of 106.

So they took him to the ER, ended up flying him to Sioux Falls, where they found he was just full of infection in his stomach. So he had such a severe infection that the doctors had to give him such high doses of antibiotics that it killed the remaining function of his kidney. So essentially he went into kidney failure, and then it just kind of spiraled from there, like this infection.

took over his body. And I mean, all that swelling and infection went to his brain too. So the last two days on earth, he was unconscious. 

[00:21:14] Angela Kennecke: During this time of his illness leading up to his death, were you able to have any conversations with him? Were you able to resolve any of these things from your childhood?

[00:21:25] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah, the last few times when he was in our local hospital, he would always call me because I think he knew I'd always be the one to answer out of all my siblings. Okay. Because I, I think I always held out hope that there was hope for him, you know, and so I did write a letter to him. Thankfully, that was what I needed to say.

[00:21:44] Angela Kennecke: And what was in that letter? You can give us just an idea. 

[00:21:47] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah, no, I just wasn't strong enough. I knew I wouldn't say the things I wanted to say because, you know, the emotions would have overtaken me because I just couldn't wrap my hand around there and around the situation that I didn't want to see my dad that way anyway.

So I just put in there, you know, I knew, like, you had struggled. I saw more than your addiction and I'm so sorry that I couldn't help you more than I tried to, you know, I just said, I forgive you. I remember the good dad and like, I just, I hope you're at peace. And I've prayed for you for years. And I guess if this is the answer to my prayers, then I will learn to accept that.

But I just, I just kept saying like, I forgive you and thank you for like giving me what you've gave me in my life. 

[00:22:31] Angela Kennecke: Have you forgiven him? 

[00:22:33] Baleigh Cerv: I did. Mm hmm. It wasn't easy. 

[00:22:36] Angela Kennecke: How were you able to do that? 

[00:22:38] Baleigh Cerv: I just kind of had to stop and think of like who he was as a person. I tried not to think about the last five years because I just don't think that would bully him, you know?

He had such bad brain damage. And it's not an excuse for how he was. There is no excuse for that. He knew he had a problem, but he never admitted it until it was too late. And talking with his caseworker and like what he had told her, like the last full day he was conscious was for that conversation. For And she was talking to me and she said, you know, his biggest regret in life is hurting his kids.

And he, he laid there and cried for days about that. That's heartbreaking. And he didn't want her to come see him. So you didn't see him? No, he didn't want us to see him like that. No. 

[00:23:21] Angela Kennecke: And is grief complicated when you lose somebody like this, who you've had such a tumultuous relationship with? He's your dad still, but you know, he wasn't a great dad and obviously he suffered with his own disease and all the issues that go along with that.

But how complicated is grief, losing someone like this? 

[00:23:43] Baleigh Cerv: I think it was 10 times worse than, you know, losing someone close. Because like I said, I had all my great grandparents and my grandparents when I was born. And I only have one great grandparent left and I have all my grandparents. I had to navigate a lot with them, but you know, it was different because I feel like there's so many what is with my dad and like, I don't know, I feel like there's a lot of things I could have said differently or you just beat yourself up in a way, you know, and it's just not fair and somebody passes like that.

But again, it's like you did what you could do, 

[00:24:17] Angela Kennecke: right? 

[00:24:18] Baleigh Cerv: It's hard to explain 

[00:24:19] Angela Kennecke: and it's been two years. Do you feel at peace with it now? 

[00:24:23] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah, I'm okay now. Like that first year, I kind of lost myself a little bit, you know? I think I just didn't know how to handle it 'cause no one knew it this day and it was kind of just like an elephant in the room.

No one knew what to say. Most people never been to that situation and a lot of people did not know. How severe my dad's addiction was until he passed.

[00:24:44] Angela Kennecke: After her dad died, Bailey decided she wanted to help others struggling with substance use disorder. She's now pursuing a master's degree to become a drug and alcohol counselor. 

[00:24:55] Baleigh Cerv: I just really like to help people. And I don't want the system to fail kids like it did me. I never was in, you know, foster care.

I always had amazing grandparents. And my mom was always, she never gave up, you know. But she had her own struggles to deal with. and raising five other kids, but I just want to be there for kids. Because oftentimes, like, kids are overworked in addiction. The person that's addicted, they don't realize, like, what they're doing to that child.

And children know way more of what's going on than what's often led. They believe that, oh, they don't know what I'm doing, but they do. 

[00:25:30] Angela Kennecke: Along with her studies to help people with addiction, Bailey has also started a blog where she shares her own experiences of living with someone battling substance use disorder.

[00:25:41] Baleigh Cerv: I know there's a lot of other people in the community that are going through the same thing, and I want people to know, like, this is why I was the way growing up, like, I'm not just some crazy little kid, you know, who cried everyday at school and struggled through school her whole life. I just want people to know that, like, it's okay to talk about it.

It doesn't have to be some elephant in the room. You can overcome it, and drugs and alcohol aren't the answer. Like, just because your parents did it doesn't mean you have to go down that path. For us, my siblings and I, we knew, like, that's not an option for us. My siblings, they're all very accomplished in their lives, and people always tell us, you guys are so amazing, like, when your story came out and your dad passed, like, you never strayed from that path of strength.

That's kind of the biggest compliment for me, people to see, like, you can overcome that. It's just all about that mindset you have. If my dad did teach us anything, it's that family's important. You take care of each other, and death was gonna get you through everything, so That's kind of just been my outlook on it.

Like if I could help one person, that's going to make me feel better about losing my dad. 

[00:26:50] Angela Kennecke: Ultimately, you want to work directly with children who are impacted by this very issue that has impacted you your whole life. 

[00:26:58] Baleigh Cerv: I know it's hard for kids to like recognize things when they're younger, but having four younger siblings and my brothers from my mom's second marriage are 10 years and 13 years younger than me.

So I feel like I raise them in a way, and that's just like how I find my strength. I love kids. I have two daughters of my own. And just so kids know they have somebody to talk to. Like, you don't have to sit down and look at me face to face, you know? Kids aren't going to open up like that. I want to do things, like, we can play blocks, and we can talk about what happens when you're at home and you're playing blocks.

Like, what are your parents doing? How does it make you feel when we're in the kitchen? You know, stuff like that. That's what I want to do, is I want to help these kids so they don't have to go to school and suffer like I did. Like, if, you know, there's a domestic dispute, I want to help them. to be able to like, go meet with this kid after and talk to them if their parent had been arrested for drugs or alcohol, I want to be able to like, get in there and talk to these kids and be like, Hey, we can come do this play therapy and you can come play and talk and I don't want them to be forgotten in that situation because I know that sometimes they're thrown into foster care or sometimes they're shoved with a grandparent.

But what about how they feel? 

[00:28:09] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, I have no doubt that you're going to do it. And I think that you will help a lot of kids. who are going through something that you went through yourself. And so I think that's very admirable. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and to reach out.

And I just really appreciate that. And I think so many people will appreciate it too. 

[00:28:31] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's been great. Your story is inspiring and fun. Just every morning I wake up and watch you on the news before I went to school. But also I thought, you know what better way to say thank you than to chat with you for a little bit because that was my solace is watching the news

[00:28:47] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate you being on the podcast and keep up the good work and I can't wait to catch up with you in a couple years and. Hear about all of that work that you're doing. 

[00:28:56] Baleigh Cerv: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much,

[00:29:03] Angela Kennecke: and thank you for taking the time to learn more about the addiction crisis facing our nation. If you or a loved one is struggling, we have a list of helpful resources on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. You can find a link in the show notes of this podcast. Thank you again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

This podcast is produced by Casey Winberg, king and Anna Phi.