[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: I'm Angela Kennecke and welcome to Grieving Out Loud. When we decide to share our talents, it's like giving a gift to others. You know what's beautiful? It often brings us a blessing in return. Today's guest, Debbie Evans, is using her artistic talents in a way she never could have imagined. I 

[00:00:28] Debbie Evans: draw pictures of Jamie, all his angel friends, Evan now.

And who are his angel friends? We've got 

[00:00:35] Angela Kennecke: like two thousand. I got the chance to meet Debbie a few weeks ago when we joined hundreds of people in Washington, D. C., all coming together to raise awareness about the fentanyl crisis. Unfortunately, Debbie and I share a bond we wish we didn't. Both of us have experienced the devastating loss of a child to fentanyl.

I've decided to leverage my background in journalism to create a podcast and write blogs that shed light on our nation's drug epidemic. Debbie has chosen to offer support to people like me who are grieving the loss of a loved one by creating lasting memorials of their children. When I met you, we had never met before, and you saw a picture of my daughter and you said what?

That I know her. 

[00:01:21] Debbie Evans: She's in my pictures. A lot of moms ask me, request, can my child be on your picture? And then there's some that I just see them and something touches me. And she was so beautiful. So 

[00:01:32] Angela Kennecke: beautiful. Yeah. I just 

[00:01:34] Debbie Evans: thought, yeah, she's going to be one of my. She'd been in all of them since I saw her.

[00:01:40] Angela Kennecke: In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, hear how Debbie's art is doing something pretty amazing. It's not just helping people cope with their grief. It's also shining a light on one of the biggest issues today in the United States, the drug epidemic, which sadly takes more than 111, 000 lives each year.

That's 305 a day. We really hope this episode leaves you feeling both informed and motivated to use your own talents to make a difference.

Well, Debbie, let's just start from the beginning and tell me a little bit about Jamie. Like, what kind of kid was he? 

[00:02:27] Debbie Evans: Jamie was very intelligent. Spoke his own mind on any subject. I mean, that's just the way he was. He'd tell you exactly what he thought. He was really good with computers. In eighth grade, he put his own computer together.

He loved deck hockey, and he loved the Washington Capitals. His urn is a Washington Capitals urn that my daughter found for us. He was funny. He had this little gip in his wall that I just loved. He had so many friends, and everybody that knew him just loved him. He would help anybody. I know everybody says that, but he really would.

There was a boy that came to his celebration of life that I hadn't met, and he told me that he had known Jamie when they were like little, and he ran into him through a mutual friend when they'd gotten older. He got put in jail, that boy, and he said, Jamie wrote me a letter, came up, put money on my commissary, sent me puzzles, pictures.

He said he was the only one that did anything for me when I was in jail. That's the way Jamie was. 

[00:03:42] Angela Kennecke: Jamie experienced something very traumatic as a teenager, right? Yeah. Tell me what happened. Oh, that 

[00:03:50] Debbie Evans: was horrible. When he was 16, he walked up to the shopping center like he usually does. He worked there too at Brittany's.

And he was going to the pet store that day to get a mouse because he had a pet snake. And then he cut through the woods like he always did. on the bank in the woods back then. They're gone now. And this guy followed him into the woods, pulled a gun on him, and told him, give me your money and your drugs.

Jamie didn't do drugs. Jamie took his wallet out and threw it on the ground. Guy said, what's in the bag? And he said, a mouse. And the guy got mad, and he put the gun here on his neck, shot him. And it nicked his jugular, went down his chest, nicked his lung, and at his back. He was in the hospital a month.

Well, he almost died that night and sort of his heart stopped three times. And he was 16? 16. He turned 17 in the hospital. Anyway, he 

[00:04:58] Angela Kennecke: finally got better. What year was this? I think it was 2002. 2002. What kind of health problems or do you have mental problems or physical problems or what? Oh, he had nightmares.

Oh. Was he in a lot of pain? 

[00:05:13] Debbie Evans: Yeah. He had trouble breathing.

[00:05:20] Angela Kennecke: More than two decades have passed since her son was shot. You can still hear and feel the pain in Debbie's voice. Of course you can. This marked the beginning of a harrowing journey filled with unrelentless stress and anguish as she fought for her little boy. 

[00:05:40] Debbie Evans: I'm sorry. 

[00:05:41] Angela Kennecke: That's alright. Just take a deep breath.

[00:05:43] Debbie Evans: Yeah, he had nightmares, screaming. 

[00:05:47] Angela Kennecke: What strikes me is how painful this is for you to talk about even after all these years. Right? It's not easier. It never gets any easier. Oh, I miss him. You miss him. I 

[00:06:02] Debbie Evans: was the one that was always there for him, always trying to help him. I put him in rehab 

[00:06:07] Angela Kennecke: three times 

[00:06:09] Debbie Evans: with what I could afford.

I was a waitress, a hostess.

[00:06:19] Angela Kennecke: Jamie's journey involved several attempts at rehab, countless tears, and an overwhelming load of pain, all starting with doctors prescribing him OxyContin for pain management after a gunshot.

So he's 16 years old. And he's prescribed pain pills. Did you know that was gonna be a problem? No, I had no idea. You don't know. Well, especially back in 2002, 2003. How were you to know? 

[00:06:51] Debbie Evans: I had no idea.

[00:06:56] Angela Kennecke: According to the C D C, the first wave of America's drug crisis began with the surge in opioid prescriptions. During the 1990s, the F D A had approved Purdue Pharma's powerful drug, Oxycontin, and from 1997 to 2002, Oxycontin prescriptions skyrocketed from 670, 000 to 6. 2 million. While many remained unaware of the turmoil spreading across the nation, an unexpected hero emerged in the form of Dan Schneider, a pharmacist living in New Orleans.

[00:07:32] Dan Schneider: People that said Oxycontin wasn't that was bullshit. You knew it. I was recently starting addiction. 

[00:07:40] Angela Kennecke: Because the pharmaceutical companies were saying it was not addictive. That was their sell. Doctors were polishing that crap. In 2000, Schneider began investigating the alarming increase in Oxycontin prescriptions driven by the tragedy of his son's own death.

This investigation led him to collaborate with the FBI, DEA, and various authorities in pursuit of bringing down doctors who were prescribing excessive amounts of this pain medication. Dan's remarkable journey is now the central focus of a Netflix docuseries titled The Pharmacist. I had the privilege of sitting down with him for a couple of episodes of Grieving Out Loud.

Well, all my 

[00:08:21] Dan Schneider: patients have been telling me that this doctor's open at two o'clock in the morning and there's hundreds of people out 

there. Whoa. So I don't 

believe them, but they've got to be exaggerating. I got to see people at doctor shops. They're bad doctors, but they're bad pharmacists out there too, because.

Maybe they could justify filling a prescription for, for a patient that's been in their store. We got a little network in my community. There was no pharmacy monitoring program at the time, but some of the better pharmacists sometimes would call and say, look, this patient just came in. Did you also fill a similar prescription?

Sometime we would catch people that were actually doctor 

[00:09:00] Angela Kennecke: the shop. Unfortunately, efforts from people like Schneider were too late for hundreds of thousands of Americans, including Debbie's son, Jamie.

[00:09:13] Debbie Evans: I thought, he's coming home. That's all I thought was everything will be okay now. 

[00:09:19] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, when did you know that the pain pills were a problem? Well, 

[00:09:23] Debbie Evans: right after he got home, he was acting weird. So we called 9 1 1. Well, the paramedics came. Jamie was laying on the floor. His dad was straddling him because Jamie didn't want to go back to the hospital.

And he was kicking his feet. And his dad was sitting on him trying to calm him down. The police come, this one officer walked around, where he was kicking his, he could have gone any other way, but he went where he was kicking his feet and he got kicked. And Jamie couldn't even see him because my husband was straddling.

And he goes, okay, that's it, you're under arrest for assault on a police officer. And I'm like, what? I was like, we called you to help. My son just got out of the hospital. My daughter was on the step crying. And he walked over and maced him in the face. I mean, really bad. And I'm like, we called you to help because we didn't know what was wrong with him.

We almost lost it. 

[00:10:27] Angela Kennecke: I said, who's 

[00:10:28] Debbie Evans: in charge? And I went out and talked to him. And he's like, he kicked him. And I said, well, he couldn't see him. 

[00:10:33] Angela Kennecke: He walked right where his feet were kicking. So he was arrested then? Yeah, they arrested him. What was he, 17? And did you know it was the painkillers causing him to be 

[00:10:46] Debbie Evans: He had taken the whole bottle.

That's why he was acting weird. 

[00:10:50] Angela Kennecke: Do you know why he took the whole bottle? No, I don't. 

[00:10:53] Debbie Evans: We didn't really know he was into drugs for a while. He thinks things are just isolated incidents like that, you know. Why would you take high pills? He was doing drugs and we didn't know it. You know, and then by the time we found out, deep into his addiction, found out later, this boy across the street that was a good friend of Jamie's growing up, had an older brother, was a heroin addict.

We didn't know that. His mother didn't tell us that. He told Jamie, how'd you like to make some money, give me a ride. And I was told, driving him to work. Well, he was driving him to D. C. by heroin. And he got Jamie started on 

[00:11:38] Angela Kennecke: heroin. Do you think that he switched from the pills to the heroin because he couldn't get the pills anymore?

Like, just like that typical thing that we always hear? And how long did he suffer with substance use disorder? Eighteen. Eighteen years. Do you think that any of this would have happened if he hadn't been prescribed the painkillers at age 16? I 

[00:12:01] Debbie Evans: mean, I know he'd still be here. He was anti drug. He would tell me everything, even things I did not want to hear.

At 16? 

[00:12:11] Angela Kennecke: 16 year old boy? Yeah. He 

[00:12:13] Debbie Evans: would come home and be like, hey, you know, so and so is doing some pop. I keep telling him not to. What 

[00:12:19] Angela Kennecke: kind of toll did this take on you? Because he's doing drugs, he's in and out of jail, or whatever's happening. Chaos. Chaos 

[00:12:27] Debbie Evans: is happening. It was really hard. He didn't know from one day to the next if he was gonna kick a hole on the wall and be normal.

I always saw weapon kill himself. No, but he just thought he could self-medicate. He, he used to see me crying. 

[00:12:45] Angela Kennecke: All right. No worried all the time. Every time he left the house, I'd be sitting 

[00:12:53] Debbie Evans: there waiting for when people come home, you know, wondering, what are you doing? It's 

[00:12:59] Angela Kennecke: so hard. It's so hard. And I understand because.

I worried all the time too about my daughter and it's like this dark cloud is following you around when one of your children something is wrong with one of your kids and you know it. It's like a dark cloud for a mom. It really is really is truly really is.

Even though Jamie struggled for nearly two decades with substance use disorder, Debbie did see signs of hope, especially right before her son died. 

[00:13:36] Debbie Evans: He had just gotten a job. With an old friend, an electrician. He loved it. He was doing really good. You could see the difference in him that he got with this old friend.

Jamie brought to the house, and I said, Get him out of here. I won't say my exact words, but I said, Get him out of here. And Jamie said, Oh, come on, my love. No. You knew that it was trouble. Told Jamie, Stay away from him. But Jamie was loyal, And he went to elementary school with this boy. You know, they've been friends all along.

And I was mad at him, someone talking to him. Now, I wish I had been,

[00:14:18] Angela Kennecke: but how would Debbie have known that it was the last time she would see her son alive? According to Debbie, Jamie had accompanied an old friend to DC where the friend bought what he believed to be heroin for Jamie tragically, it turned out to be a deadly dose of Fentanyl that night. Debbie got the phone call from a detective with the devastating news of her son's death.

To make matters worse, Debbie says she felt very judged by the detective, who stated her son was a drug addict and he had brought it upon himself. It was 

[00:14:52] Debbie Evans: March 19th, 2020. 2020. 

[00:14:57] Angela Kennecke: And he was... 34. 34. And I mean, 

[00:15:01] Debbie Evans: he struggled. He tried. Everybody at Reham loved me. He loved Reham. So many people from Reham drove like two and a half hours to come to the Celebration of Life to tell me stories, how he helped them.

And I always thought, why didn't he 

[00:15:20] Angela Kennecke: help himself? If you could rewrite this script, if you could go back and wave a magic wand and rewrite this script, what would you do? What would, what would you have been different? I would do more shopping. You would have picked him up from the shopping center, so he never would have been shot in the first place.

Because 

[00:15:39] Debbie Evans: in my mind, that guy, he didn't do drugs until I shot him in the hospital. So he killed 

[00:15:47] Angela Kennecke: Ted. What about the doctors and the medical professionals that prescribed this for your son when he was 16? Well, he 

[00:15:54] Debbie Evans: got him from the hospital and then he started going to psychiatrists. 

[00:15:58] Angela Kennecke: Do you blame the medical profession?

Well, yeah, for not letting 

[00:16:02] Debbie Evans: me know he could become addicted to drugs. Because I would have done everything differently. You know, I mean, I would have watched him. I would have... If 

[00:16:10] Angela Kennecke: you would have had the knowledge. Would have, could have, should have. But you did the best you could with what you knew at the time.

I didn't know. No, nobody knew. Nobody was being honest about these pain medications back then. No. 

[00:16:22] Debbie Evans: I mean, I knew the drugs were strong. You know, he even told me, Mom, I love the way it makes me feel. Well, that's why 

[00:16:29] Angela Kennecke: people do drugs. Because they make people feel good. I mean, 

[00:16:32] Debbie Evans: he's in a hospital. I'm thinking, oh, okay.

Well, that's who it was. Oh, 

[00:16:36] Angela Kennecke: in the hospital. He was saying that you're 

[00:16:38] Debbie Evans: supposed to make you feel good. You know, I, I didn't think that when he came home, I couldn't, I thought he'd come home things back to normal. Things never went back to normal. It just got worse and worse.

[00:16:55] Angela Kennecke: Have you lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning? I'd like to invite you to share their story On our new Emily's Hope Memorial website called More Than Just a Number, they were our children, siblings, cousins, husbands, wives, aunts, uncles. And friends, so much more than just a number. You can submit a memorial today on more than just a number.org.

Well, I'm so sorry for everything that you've been through and for the loss of your son, Jamie. I have seen now with my own eyes how you honor him. And I have to say I'm blown away. You are quite the artist. Oh, thank you. 

[00:17:41] Debbie Evans: I've had to work 

[00:17:42] Angela Kennecke: at it.

And work, Debbie has. Not only has art become therapeutic for her during her grieving process, but she's also raising awareness about the fentanyl epidemic. People across the nation are gaining a deeper understanding of the devastation fentanyl is causing through her drawings. which depict Jamie alongside others who have died from the powerful synthetic opioid.

[00:18:16] Debbie Evans: I draw pictures of Jamie, all his angel prints. And 

[00:18:22] Angela Kennecke: who are his angel prints? Oh, 

[00:18:24] Debbie Evans: no, he's got like 2, 000. 

[00:18:27] Angela Kennecke: No, just people. And when I met you, we had never met before. And you saw a picture of my daughter and you said what? That I 

[00:18:33] Debbie Evans: know her. She's in my pictures. A lot of moms ask me, request, can my child be on your picture?

And then there's some that I just see them and something touches me and she was so beautiful. So 

[00:18:45] Angela Kennecke: beautiful. Yeah. 

[00:18:47] Debbie Evans: She just, I just thought, yeah, she's going to be one of them. She'd been in all of them since I saw her. 

[00:18:53] Angela Kennecke: So you draw these pictures and they're very well done. Have you always been artistic?

Where did you get this ability? I was 

[00:19:00] Debbie Evans: artistic, but like I said, I couldn't draw paste and I wanted to be able to draw janky. You know, I just kept working at it. Like even Karen, my friend out there today, she said, I think you're getting better. I said, yeah, I think you're right. I think I am. 

[00:19:15] Angela Kennecke: So you draw these pictures in there, it's, it's not just a little picture, it's a, They're huge.

They're huge. And what's happening in the pictures? Like, Jamie's birthday party. His birthday in heaven. Yes. Birthday in heaven. Because he would have been 37, is that right? Last 

[00:19:31] Debbie Evans: year, I did an ice hockey birthday party because he liked ice hockey so much, he was a Capitals fan.

[00:19:43] Angela Kennecke: From fun birthday parties to Jamie's favorite bacon cheeseburger feasts, Debbie's artwork covers a wide range of scenes. In these drawings, she captures her son doing the things he enjoyed most, surrounded by others who lost their lives to fentanyl. Some of these pieces Even have more than 2000 faces in them.

Emily was an artist. Maybe that's why she resonated with you. Oh, because she was an artist. Aw. And you ha, so there you got bacon, cheeseburgers, and hockey and people doing all kinds of things. Yeah. And does this help you? Yes. 

[00:20:21] Debbie Evans: How? Just give me some to deeper. Jamie

[00:20:29] Angela Kennecke: Debbie's art isn't only a loving remembrance of her own child. It's also a source of comfort for parents across the U. S. Her work caught the attention of thousands during my time in D. C. It also proudly hangs in public places, like the Executive Mansion in her home state of Virginia.

So you're not only helping yourself. 

[00:20:53] Debbie Evans: All alongside. Keeps up lives. Keeps up lives. Any 

[00:21:00] Angela Kennecke: moment just a moment. Just a moment of happiness. No, 

[00:21:04] Debbie Evans: just anything. Somebody remembers 

[00:21:07] Angela Kennecke: your child. Well, thank you for all the beautiful drawings you do. Thank you for drawing Emily. I'm just so honored that you just saw her picture and like I said, we didn't even know each other and you drew her into the big collages that you're doing and we're going to put pictures of your drawings online with this podcast and we'll have links in the show notes so people can check them out too.

Thank you for sharing Jamie's story.

Thank you for spending your precious time with us. Please join us next week on Grieving Out Loud for a touching conversation with the father of an internationally known social media star who had amassed millions of online followers. Unfortunately, his life was cut short at just 19 because of fentanyl.

[00:22:02] Harold Noriega: He was struggling with what every kid probably goes through when they grow up, trying to figure out who they are and their self identity as they're maturing and going to puberty. Like, where do I fit in, you know, with my friends? And then there's what I'm supposed to fit into. Like, we're supposed to go to school.

You know, we're gonna go to college. And you know, you got to go to USC because that's what everybody does around particularly where we grew up. And so sometimes fitting in that box is challenging for kids. And I see other kids now in my neighborhood where they don't fit into that box and they struggle to internalize it.

And what they all want to do is they want to have somebody to talk to about it. And they don't know how to ask for that because mental health is regarded as a stigma. 

[00:22:50] Angela Kennecke: Hear Harold Noriega's advice for parents and kids. who are navigating mental health, substance use disorder, and today's dangerous illicit drug supply.

It's an episode I think will leave you enlightened and empowered to make a difference. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

This podcast is produced by Casey Wannenberg King and Anna Fye.