[00:00:00] Sharon Roberts: I never heard of fentanyl until his autopsy came back. it was just something that does not happen to you.

This is not something that happens to you. And we were just like, what, how, why did he die? So that's why we did the autopsy. I wanted to make sure he didn't have a brain tumor or a cancer or something. So when it came back that that's what it was. That's when I started getting on the internet, looking up something, found all these groups and realizing, Oh, wow, this is a pandemic. This is real. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:00:28] Angela Kennecke: I'm Angela Kennecke and this is Grieving Out Loud. Over the past couple of months, I've had the privilege of traveling to Washington, D. C. twice to raise awareness about our nation's fentanyl crisis, which is killing a record number of Americans. During my first visit, I met with some of the country's top leaders, including the U. S. drug czar, the director of the CDC, and the second gentleman, Douglas Emhoff, who is married to Vice President Kamala Harris. 

On my second visit to the nation's capital, I joined hundreds of others who, like me, have experienced the devastating loss of a loved one due to illicit substances. Together, we rallied to send a powerful message to policymakers and the public. It's time to take action against fentanyl trafficking and the heartbreak it's causing. 

Today, I'll be sharing the stories of three remarkable individuals I met during the rally. 

[00:01:29] Sharon Roberts: Yesterday I went to the DEA museum for the first time. I've seen pictures of him up there. They sent me a picture of him. But until I actually saw it in the museum, took me to my knees, I went to my knees yesterday, 

[00:01:40] Karen Potocki: The loss of a child is abnormal. We don't bury our children. I mean, here I am doing posters of my daughter and picking out coffins. 

[00:01:50] Sarah Link: Six months before my sister passed away, we had a couple of very open and honest conversations. 

[00:01:55] Angela Kennecke: Had you ever had conversations like that before? No. 

[00:01:59] Sarah Link: No. So I had spent a lot of years being angry at her, demanding that she get help. 

[00:02:03] Angela Kennecke: And there are a lot of Americans who need help.

According to the CDC's latest data, more than 111, 000 Americans have died within the 12 month period ending in April. That equals 305 people every day. In fact, drugs are now the number one killer of Americans under the age of 50. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, hear what these three women want changed in this country and the message they're urgently sending to others.

(MUSIC UP)

INTRO-if we have an intro

(MUSIC UP)

[00:02:46] Angela Kennecke: Sharon, thank you so much for joining me here at the Lost Voices of Fentanyl rally in Washington, DC. You may hear some background noise while we talk because we're in a very busy, crowded hotel where all of these parents are gathering. And Sharon, why are you here? Tell 

[00:03:02] Sharon Roberts: me why you came here. 

I'm here.

I'm here. for the cause, to fight fentanyl, to make awareness, to spread the word, to save other people's lives. I can't bring my son back, but I want to save other people's lives. Have 

[00:03:12] Angela Kennecke: you ever been to this rally before? Yes, ma'am. You've come before? Yes, I have. What's it been like?

[00:03:17] Sharon Roberts: Oh, it's phenomenal. I mean, if you're a grieving mother, This helps so much, to spread the word, spread the awareness. It brings us together. Only us know what it feels like. And we definitely don't want another mother or another father or another grandparent, brother, uncle, sister to feel the way that we feel.

 We want to stop this. 

[00:03:37] Angela Kennecke: That's what I always say, too. I say if just one person is saved I don't want anyone to feel this way after losing a child in this horrible way. Exactly. So one thing we all have in common here is that everybody here, and there are hundreds of us, have lost someone to fentanyl poisoning.

[00:03:53] Sharon Roberts: Exactly. in the last two years that I've been on Lost Voices of Fentanyl, there's 28, 000 members and that's just on one platform. There's many other platforms out there. Right. So that's just 28, 000. So 

[00:04:06] Angela Kennecke: let's talk about your story a little bit, your family's story, your son's story. Tell me a little bit about your son.

[00:04:13] Sharon Roberts: Sean was 39 years old, father of two. His son at the time was 18, his daughter was 9 years old at the time. Sean had hurt his back, helping his dad lift the generator up after a hurricane was coming. And, my husband took him to the hospital.

And they didn't do anything, and I understand why, you know, because of the opiates. And I really didn't want Sean to be on any of that stuff. And probably about seven days later, Sean reached out to someone, I don't know who and got a Xanax so he could sleep because he wasn't sleeping. And he took it, went to bed and never woke up.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:04:48] Angela Kennecke: Sharon says her son's autopsy revealed that Sean died from fentanyl and heroin. It turns out that the pill Sean ingested wasn't actually Xanax. Sadly, this is becoming all too common of a story. As Emily's Hope has reported in our news headlines, the U. S. Drug Enforcement Administration has issued a stark nationwide warning about the surge in deaths linked to counterfeit prescription pills laced with fentanyl.

DEA lab analysis found that in 2022, 6 out of every 10 fentanyl laced fake prescription pills contained potentially deadly doses. You can check out the latest news stories surrounding substance use disorder, America's drug crisis, and the government's response by heading over to our website, emilyshope. charity.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:05:41] Sharon Roberts: We did have an autopsy done because we had no idea what he would have died from because he wasn't doing any drugs. So, we were just in shock. 

[00:05:51] Angela Kennecke: Did he have a history of using substances or was this a unusual situation?

Well, 

[00:05:56] Sharon Roberts: Sean did do marijuana. but he didn't do any hard drugs. 

[00:05:59] Angela Kennecke: So he had been in pain. 

[00:06:01] Sharon Roberts: He was in severe pain. And reached out. And he must have reached out to somebody. We just don't know who that person was. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:06:07] Angela Kennecke: The second woman we had the opportunity to talk with, Karen Potocki, shares a story that's strikingly similar, yet uniquely different from mine. In 2018, we both suffered the devastating losses of our daughters to fentanyl, but the past that led to those losses were filled with unexpected twists and turns.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:06:31] Karen Potocki: Jenna was, first of all, my only child. She was everything to me. I tried very hard to get pregnant. I got surgery and I had this beautiful blonde hair, beautiful blue eye, gorgeous kid, and I actually doted on her.

She went to the best of schools. She was a super athlete and everything. She was a softball player. that went to the World Series. I mean, she had everything going for her. she was just a great kid. She was gorgeous inside and out. I can't see enough good things about my daughter. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:07:00] Angela Kennecke: However, in 2015, Jenna, a mother of three boys, faced a life altering moment when she nearly died in a car crash. Unlike our first interview, doctors did prescribe her the prescription painkiller oxycodone. This marked the beginning of the 25 year old's three year battle with substance use disorder.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:07:24] Angela Kennecke: I'm sure she was in a lot of pain, 

[00:07:25] Karen Potocki: right? She was never stepping in bed again, stepping on the floor. 

[00:07:29] Angela Kennecke: So do you think she needed the opioids? 

[00:07:31] Karen Potocki: She didn't know anything different. I didn't know anything different. You have to understand when you're living your everyday life, you're going to work, you're doing your thing. She had children trying to help her with these children. And we're living our everyday lives, and all of a sudden, she gets this horrific car wreck, they put her on these opiates, well I'm thinking, yeah, that's painkilling, my kid's suffering, you know, what do you think? I gotta be honest with you, the day that I got the phone call that Jenna died, I've never even heard of Narcan, I never heard of Fentanyl, I never heard of anything.

I was in my la la bubble land. I worked full time in technology. I had a great job. I had a beautiful home. She went to private schools. everyday, middle class family. Right. 

[00:08:07] Angela Kennecke: So she's in this horrible accident about three years before she died. Yes. And she becomes addicted to opioids and then, did you know, did she move on to other substances? 

[00:08:18] Karen Potocki: She got addicted to opioids and when they stopped giving them to her, I didn't know anything, do you understand?

[00:08:23] Angela Kennecke: You knew nothing? I knew nothing. Before her 

[00:08:25] Karen Potocki: death? 

Very little, and I'll tell you about that. probably about two months before she died, she came to me, I think she got a scare, I think she got an A slight overdose and she was scared. She came to me and says, Mom, I'm on heroin. I almost dropped to the floor because first of all, I never thought in a million years my daughter would be on heroin.

I mean, come on, it's a shock value. I immediately called her father because I'm not married to her father now. And I said, we need to get our daughter help. She's on heroin. He goes, you've got to be kidding me.

I said, I am not kidding you. I knew she was acting differently, but I thought it was because of the pain. I thought it was because of the opiates. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:08:55] Angela Kennecke: Karen's response was swift. She wasted no time in arranging for her daughter's admission to a detox program. She was confident and hopeful it would work. Yet just three weeks after her daughter returned home, karen received the worst phone call of her life.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:09:17] Karen Potocki:  I got the 4 o'clock a. m. saying, you know, she has no pulse, she's unconscious, on the way to the hospital, go to the hospital. The worst phone call a mother could ever get, or a father. on the way to the hospital, no one said a word. I knew in my heart she was gone. and she was, she had died instantly.

 And so when I got to the hospital, when the police shuffled me into the family room...

I knew in my heart, father of Jenna, I looked at him, I said, Jenna's gone. He goes, how can you say that? I said, because why are we with her? We'd be with her. They would take us right to her. And so she's gone. And the funny thing about it is you doesn't register until they walk in with breathing heavily, and they bring in a grief counselor, and they look at you and go, we tried everything.

 And we tried everything we could try to keep her alive. She's gone. And my ex husband, the father, I never heard a man scream so loud and, screaming out her name and falling to the ground is what I had to witness. And to get that man off the ground, he saw his baby girl there dead

[00:10:17] Angela Kennecke: it's hard to accept. 

[00:10:18] Karen Potocki: How did we accept something like this, you know? You have to. 

I think I'm going to help my daughter. I'm going to put her in detox. She's going to come out. She's going to be fine. The world's going to be rosy. And she did come out. She did come out of detox. Three weeks later, she was dead. Three

On her Facebook page, 48 hours before she died, You can go right on and look at it. Jenna Maria, go look at it. She's saying, I've never been more happy in my life. I've got my life together. I got my boys. Everything's wonderful. I'm completely sober. 48 hours later, she was dead.

[00:10:48] Angela Kennecke: And what did you learn 

[00:10:49] Karen Potocki: caused her death? Fentanyl. 100 percent fentanyl. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:10:52] Angela Kennecke: Fentanyl's deadly impact extends beyond parents mourning the loss of their children. It also deeply affects friends and other family members. During our interviews in Washington, D. C., we had the opportunity to speak with Sarah Link, who tragically lost her sister, Vanessa. Vanessa's struggle with substance use disorder began after doctors prescribed her painkillers following gastric bypass surgery, marking a decades long, heart wrenching journey of addiction.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:11:28] Angela Kennecke: and how long had she struggled? 20, 25 years. 20 or 25 years. Yes. What was it like to have an older sister who 

[00:11:36] Sarah Link: it was rough? It was rough on the entire . It destroyed lot of relationships 

uh, she struggled for many years. and at a certain point, doctors, cut her off and wouldn't prescribe them anymore. At that point, she turned to the streets, started buying him off the streets at some point she was introduced 

[00:11:57] Angela Kennecke: to heroin. This is a story that you hear repeated over and over and over again. Yes, ma'am. I mean, how many people have you talked to that started with pills and then got pills off the street? I mean, I've talked to so many on this podcast. And eventually it was heroin. 

. Did your sister ever talk to you about what she was going through with all of this?

[00:12:18] Sarah Link: Six months before my sister passed away, we had a couple of very open and honest conversations. 

[00:12:24] Angela Kennecke: Had you ever had conversations like that before? No. 

[00:12:27] Sarah Link: No. So I had spent a lot of years being angry at her, demanding that she get help. 

[00:12:31] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, tell me about, because as a family member, you see someone doing this and it seems like so hard to understand and you're trying everything to get them to stop. Tell me about your anger.

Oh, I was angry 

[00:12:46] Sarah Link: with sister for many years. I didn't realize how angry I was. And the moment she died, every anger left. only way I know how to describe it. I no longer had any anger towards her for anything.

At that point, I started learning a lot more about addiction. Trying to understand how someone feels when they're going through that. Because I never had the chance to tell her it was okay that I loved her just the way she 

[00:13:17] Angela Kennecke: Of course you loved your sister, and I'm sure she knew that, right?

A part of her knew it. But I can see even with my own children, you know, they were angry with their sister because she was causing a lot of turmoil in the family, you know, and as a sibling, you kind of, then you live with that guilt after they die for being angry, right? Yes. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:13:39] Angela Kennecke: Sarah says she was extremely thankful that she did get to have a couple of open and honest conversations with her big sister right before Vanessa died. It's not only helped her understand substance use disorder, but also provides comfort in her grief journey.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:14:06] Sarah Link: She always tried to explain to me, this was not something she chose  I talked to her a couple of days before she passed. She was actually making an effort to get counseling. She had asked me if I would join her for some counseling sessions.

[00:14:23] Angela Kennecke: She didn't intend to die. and was it from Fentanyl? What happened with her death? 

[00:14:28] Sarah Link: She purchased what she thought was heroin, turned out to be fentanyl. She was found in her bathroom by her husband.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:14:36] Angela Kennecke: Besides her husband, Vanessa also left behind children. In fact, all three of the people we interviewed for this podcast had one thing in common. Their loved ones who passed away left behind children. Jenna had three kids, and Sean...

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:14:54] Sharon Roberts: Sean was loving. He loved his kids very much. He was a funny kind of guy. You know, he'd be mad at you one minute and happy the next minute. He was a really good, kind guy. he adored his children very much. 

[00:15:05] Angela Kennecke: And his children, how are they doing? 

[00:15:07] Sharon Roberts: They are handling it the best they could. His son started college two weeks before Sean died, and his son went back to college the very next day. he did not go to bed that night.

He went into class the next morning. The teacher thought he had been out partying all night because he looked pretty rough. And my grandson said, my dad died last night. He said, I stayed up all night doing your homework and I'm in your class today. He finished, in three and a half year, a four year degree.

He just put his grief into his college graduated Magna Cum Laude. He works for the Department of Forensic. His daughter, not so much. She was nine at the time. I'm trying to give her all the help that I can get them. 

[00:15:49] Angela Kennecke: And I think a lot of times people don't think about the children. left behind in this horrible epidemic that we're in. 

[00:15:57] Sharon Roberts: And I hope that they see what I'm doing and has an impact on them, and I still live in them all the time. I have banners in my front yard. I have, signs in my front yard. I post it all the time, and I keep telling them, don't take a pill, or don't take any drugs, don't take anything from anybody. And, you know, that's all I can do is just keep educating them, and that's what I'm trying to do. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:16:18] Angela Kennecke: At Emily's Hope, we believe education is key. That's why we've pioneered a K 12 substance use prevention curriculum. Our aim is to empower the next generation to make healthy choices through comprehensive, evidence based, and age appropriate content. You can find out more information about the program by heading to our website.

We've also put the details in this podcast show notes for Karen. She also believes education is the cornerstone in preventing more senseless drug deaths, and that's why she's been open and honest with her grandchildren.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:16:59] Karen Potocki: I never shielded from them how, what happened to her. Because I don't want to happen to them. So I was very open,

[00:17:05] Angela Kennecke: But you worry. 

[00:17:06] Karen Potocki: I worry every day about those kids, because I don't think I can make it through without them. And I've talked to a mother today that her, she goes, my son's up there, and my grandson's up there, and I think to myself, that'd be the end of me. It really would be. I couldn't go through losing and burying another child. 

[00:17:22] Angela Kennecke: I feel the same way. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:17:23] Angela Kennecke: Unfortunately, one of the women we interviewed is living with that heartbreaking reality.

Sharon lost not only her son, Sean, to fentanyl poisoning, but her other son died from a heart attack last year.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:17:41] Angela Kennecke: How old was your other son? 

[00:17:42] Sharon Roberts: 46. 

[00:17:43] Angela Kennecke: So you've lost two children? 

[00:17:45] Sharon Roberts: My only two children, 

[00:17:46] Angela Kennecke: your only two kids, 

[00:17:48] Sharon Roberts: but I know that they're in Jesus hands, I know they're in a better place. I know they're not hurting anymore. And I know this is my mission. I know this is what I'm here for. 

[00:17:57] Angela Kennecke: I feel strongly that that's my mission as well. So we're kindred spirits that way, but I do think that the death of a child can really rock your faith. I mean, it can really challenge things, 

[00:18:08] Sharon Roberts: but you have to be very faithful. don't want to go into my history, but I've lost a lot of people before that. Mother, brother, sister, father, five aunts and uncles all within a couple years. So my faith, you know, was tested many years ago. And I just, okay, I know I'm going to die too. Just don't know when, don't know how. 

[00:18:27] Angela Kennecke: So you are pretty much an expert in grief, having lived it. 

[00:18:31] Sharon Roberts: I don't want to do it anymore, but yes. Yes. 

[00:18:34] Angela Kennecke: We have a lot of people listen to this podcast, maybe they just lost someone six months ago, three weeks ago. What advice do you have for other moms, dads, grandparents?

[00:18:44] Sharon Roberts: First of all, they have to reach out to another grieving parent. That's the only way. You cannot reach out to a friend that has not lost a child. You have to reach out to another grieving parent. Because only us grieving parents know what the next phase is. There's many phases to grief, you know. And only us grieving people know it.

And I did have a couple people before me that grieved their children. So... They came to me and told me the steps that it's going to be and they were , dead on about it and they're still here for me and we do it together and they still go back to the grief, it's a never ending. It's like a spinning wheel, 

[00:19:21] Angela Kennecke: it almost feels like it's your responsibility as a parent who's lost someone when you see another parent lose a child.

However, they lost that child doesn't matter if it was from fentanyl or something else. I had parents show up right after Emily died who'd lost someone and some of my were just acquaintances or I was introduced to them through someone else, but they all showed up, right? And they all were so sympathetic and just were very understanding. and I think they gave me some hope. I had one mom who was about 13 years out and she said life will be beautiful and rich again, but it takes time. 

[00:19:58] Sharon Roberts: It does. It takes a lot of time. 

[00:20:00] Angela Kennecke: Are you finding life is beautiful again? 

[00:20:04] Sharon Roberts: Oh, yeah, I am. I mean, today I went to the zoo. I took, what was in this, weekend. I said, we're gonna go do something fun. I'm gonna go laugh. I'm gonna have a little bit of fun. 

[00:20:12] Angela Kennecke: So it's not all serious about fentanyl and all the problem and the death and the... 

[00:20:17] Sharon Roberts: And I have my grandkids and I love my grandkids and I do things with them. I have my job. Thank God for my job. You know, my job, I get up every day and go to work, and I love my job, so, you know, I throw my stuff into that, my job is helping other people go through their grief because I'm an estate sale liquidator. So I help them get rid of their, family's items, and I did that because I lost many family members, so I turned my grief into helping others grief. 

[00:20:43] Angela Kennecke: Well, that's really wonderful. 

[00:20:44] Sharon Roberts: And I always tell them. It doesn't love you. Items don't love you. 

[00:20:48] Angela Kennecke: It's just stuff, right? It's stuff. It doesn't love you. But it's interesting that you're able to use your own perspective from loss. And you're doing your daily work that way. That's what I do. 

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:20:58] Angela Kennecke: Sharon, Sarah, and Karen also stressed that sharing their loved one's stories and advocating for change have been instrumental in their personal grief journeys, allowing them to discover purpose in their pain. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:21:11] Karen Potocki: I wanted something for Jenna that she died and she might remember my child. And all these angel parents are the same way. They want justice and they want their kid remembered. And there's not one angel parent I can talk to that won't tell you they want their kid remembered and they want justice for them.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:21:26] Angela Kennecke: That justice can come in many different forms. Maybe it's a prison sentence for those responsible for dealing the deadly drug. or a new law focused on fentanyl trafficking. But what truly united the hundreds of us at the DC rally was our shared goal to put an end to the deadliest drug crisis in U. S. history.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:21:51] Angela Kennecke: You know, there's going to be this rally and this rally will happen it will be over and everyone will go back to all the places they came from. Do you think that we're going to make a difference or how long is it going to take?

[00:22:06] Sharon Roberts: Oh, I think it's going to be ongoing forever. I don't think it's ever going to stop because if it's not this, it's going to be something else. I don't think fentanyl is going to ever go 

[00:22:16] Angela Kennecke: away. No, it's like the cat's out of the bag. How do you put it back in? It's 

[00:22:19] Sharon Roberts: ever go away. It may subside some, but I don't think it's ever going to go away. And so I think what we're trying to do is leave a legacy for our kids and stuff and to just to make awareness. Right. We have to educate. We have to do that. That's what it's about. 

[00:22:34] Angela Kennecke: How do you honor Sean today? What do you do in his memory? 

[00:22:38] Sharon Roberts: Well, I wear his shirts and I say his name all the time.

And, you know, I'm here for the rally, you know, shouting his name. I had banners in my front yard. I had signs in my front yard and I post things daily on it. You know, after the rally, we're not going to stop. We're going to go back home and we're going to make plans for next year's rally. Each year is a little bit different and we're going to learn from each year what not to do and what to do and go back and make it better and better and bigger for each year coming. So it doesn't stop. Work continues full speed ahead. 

[00:23:11] Angela Kennecke: Well, thank you. Thank you for talking to me. Thank you for being here. Thank so much. And I'm so sorry for the loss of Sean. Well, thank you so much. And your other son as well. Your daughter, Emily. Thank you. 

[00:23:19] Sharon Roberts: You know, so sorry too. So sorry we have to meet like this, but 

[00:23:22] Angela Kennecke: I know, you know, it's a blessing.

I know. I always say that when I meet other parents, I'm really sorry we're meeting under these circumstances, but I'm so glad to know you.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:23:33] Angela Kennecke: And I'd like to say thank you to the other two remarkable guests in this podcast, along with you, the listener. I know your time is valuable and we appreciate you spending precious minutes learning more about substance use disorder and the fentanyl crisis.

By raising awareness and decreasing the stigma associated with addiction, we can hopefully prevent more deaths and get those who are suffering the help they need. Please tune in next week as we continue our series of conversations directly from the heart of the fentanyl rally in D. C. 

Hear from a mom who tragically lost her son to fentanyl, but has now found a unique way to help grieving families by creating caricatures of their loved ones.

[00:24:16] Debbie Evans: I draw pictures of Jamie and all his angel friends in heaven now.

[00:24:21] Angela Kennecke: And who 

[00:24:21] Debbie Evans: are his angel friends? he's got like 2, 000. 

[00:24:25] Angela Kennecke: So just people, and when I met you, we had never met before.  And you saw a picture of my daughter and you said what? I, 

[00:24:31] Debbie Evans: that I know her, that she's in my pictures. a lot of moms ask me requests, can my child be on your picture? And then there's some that I just see them and something touches me and she was so beautiful. So beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And I just thought, yeah, she's gonna be in one of my pictures and she's been in all of 'em since I saw her.

 (MUSIC UP) 

[00:24:51] Angela Kennecke: Again, thanks for listening. I'm Angela Kenecke, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. 

This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Anna Fey..