(MUSIC UP) 

[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: Welcome to Grieving Out Loud. I'm Angela Kennecke. Today we have someone truly amazing joining us on the podcast, someone who has touched the lives of hundreds of people dealing with grief, depression, and the challenges of having a family member battle addiction. Her name Valerie Silveira, and her story is both inspiring and heart wrenching. She wrote her first book after she struggled with helping her own daughter battle a heroin addiction and then being shot.

[00:00:37] Valerie Silveira: I can remember holding her and knowing, knowing when she was first born, that I can protect her. I can teach her everything that she needs to know. They were in good schools. They had experiences but you know, here's the bottom line, people want to know what moms of addicts look like, you know that stamp you should have on your forehead? Bad mom, we look like you. That's what we look like, we look like you. 

[00:01:00] Angela Kennecke: Depression, shame and self-doubt were constant companions for Valerie, as she watched her daughter make one bad decision after another. She questioned her own role as a parent wondering if there was something more she could have done. It's a struggle that countless parents and caregivers can relate to the feeling of helplessness and the weight of society's judgment.​

[00:01:25] Valerie Silveira: Then I started thinking about my son and I thought, this is not right. You know, as good as I am at trying to shield him and pretend and put on a good show and all this. He is losing his first best friend and his only sibling and he is not gonna lose his mom. Mm-hmm. Nope, nope, nope. I said, that's not gonna be my legacy, where, you know, I gave up and I showed him, and even Jamie, this is what I'm gonna show them, that when life gets tough, you give up. No. If I don't teach them what it looks like to stand up in your darkest days, who's gonna do that for them? Or am I gonna hope someone else comes along? 

[00:02:07] Angela Kennecke: But let's get real here. Life doesn't always give us the fairytale ending we wish for. Unfortunately, that's true for Valerie and her family. Join us as Valerie's journey takes us through the highs and lows, the triumphs and heartbreaks, and shows us the immense strength she has discovered within herself during these challenging times.

 Her story reminds us even in the face of unimaginable challenges, we can find strength and purpose.

[00:02:39] Valerie Silveira:  

So grab a cup of coffee or tea, find a cozy spot, and join us as we dive deep into Valerie's journey. It's an episode filled with raw honesty, heart heartfelt insights, and a reminder that no matter how difficult life gets, we are all in this together.

[00:03:02] Angela Kennecke: (MUSIC UP!) Valerie, I'd like to welcome you to Grieving Out Loud. Thank you so much for being here. 

[00:03:07] Valerie Silveira: Thank you. It's an honor that you asked me to join you. 

[00:03:10] Angela Kennecke: Well, as I was researching you a little bit, I was really struck by so many similarities in our stories, similarities in our daughters, our oldest child, similarities in how we've responded to, you know, the unthinkable, the worst possible thing happening to somebody.

And I'm just so grateful to be able to kinda hash these things out with you in our conversation ahead. And hopefully other people can benefit from some of what you've learned, what I've learned and what you are doing and how you're trying to help others. 

[00:03:43] Valerie Silveira: Yes. I think you and I talked just briefly before this episode, what is the alternative?

I mean, either we crawl inside the hole in our heart and that's it. Or we somehow use this tragedy for good and I'm really grateful that we can link arms and do just that. Right, 

[00:04:03] Angela Kennecke: because mothers who've lost children truly do have a hole in their 

[00:04:07] Valerie Silveira: hearts that will never heal. Right. 

[00:04:10] Angela Kennecke: Right. And I wanna get into Jamie's story because it's just such a unbelievable one in so many ways. And also there are so many similarities when Jamie started down the path to substance use disorder, that she shares with my daughter and so many other kids like her.

So can you talk about when things started with your daughter, Jamie? 

[00:04:34] Valerie Silveira: Well, it's probably the least likely of scenarios because she actually went with a youth group. I lived in the Seattle area at the time. We lived in Bellevue, Washington, and this is Tacoma and it's a world away for us, just cuz we never, went to that area and my husband and I actually sat outside this nightclub for young people, for street kids and where they were doing this outreach.

But I was scared. I didn't want her to just go with, the people from this friend of hers church. Instead we sat outside. That's how careful we were. And at one point she told me about this guy and I said, oh, what church does he go to? Oh, no, mom. He goes to the program. So it kind of started where she went to an outreach and sort of became one.

I don't, I don't know why. I don't, I don't understand. 

[00:05:17] Angela Kennecke: How old was she? 

[00:05:19] Valerie Silveira: 15. 

[00:05:20] Angela Kennecke: 15. And my daughter was about 15 when her behavior started not making sense to me. Yes. She started doing, things that I just never thought. She would do. And then at about 16, she met a boy who was a drug dealer and actually was with him up until about three weeks before her death.

[00:05:38] Valerie Silveira: . Oh, really? 

[00:05:39] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. So it's, it's very hard. It's a tough situation. 

[00:05:42] Valerie Silveira: You know, I remember one time saying to her, we are having this, obviously one of our. Let's not call him a discussion, one of our arguments. And, she said, well, I guess what you're saying is that I have to choose between him and the family.

She was always so quick that she figured, you know, this is how I'm getting out of this one. And you know how your brain is going through that in a nanosecond. You're going through all of this stuff going, if I say yes, this could mean, off she goes. And I said, you know what, Jamie? I guess that is what I'm saying.

And she looked at me and it looked, it was like another entity. It was like a different person looking back at me. And she said, then I choose him. 

[00:06:18] Angela Kennecke: I feel like with addiction, you really lose your child before you physically lose them. And that is such a hard thing.

[00:06:26] Valerie Silveira: Yes. And you know what? That's why I used to say to her all the time, I would say, Jamie, I see you. I know who you are, all of this, whatever, all this is. Underneath your addiction beast. I know who you are. I see you. I used to tell her that all the time, but, it just has such a grip on them that it's, it's shocking.

So for us, same thing you said. Eventually she quit the, she played select sports. She played on the high school softball team. She quit everything. She quit youth groups. She quit her friends, even though she practically quit her family. And we just couldn't stop the train, the rollercoaster from hell as I call it.

so. she was 18, this boyfriend shot her. I don't know if you knew that part of my story. Yeah, my daughter's been shot twice, so she was shot when she was 18 and it was near fatal. It was a miracle that she survived and in fact they had to cut her open from pubic bone to her breast bone.

I mean, they fileted her open like a fish to stop the bleeding and, you know, then closed her up and, Hoped everything would be okay. that she would wake up. The bullet was lodged in her abdominal wall. so there I am sitting in this emergency hospital in ICU. I know you can relate to the this on so many different types of situations, but going, this can't be my life. You know, detectives are talking to about G S W and they're talking about he was a gang member and, they had to get the SWAT team to arrest him. And this is tv. 

[00:07:48] Angela Kennecke: I think we're all of the belief before someone goes off the rails, so to speak in our family, that if we're raised the right way, if we're raising our kids the right way, if we're doing the right things, if we have the education, if we have some money to support them, to give them advantages in life, these kinds of things shouldn't happen.

 It's not the story we're writing for ourselves or our family. I 

[00:08:13] Valerie Silveira: completely agree with you. I can remember holding her and knowing, knowing when she was first born, that I can protect her. I can teach her everything that she needs to know. they were in good schools. They had experiences But you know, here's the bottom line, If people want to know what moms of addicts look like, you know that stamp you should have on your forehead? Bad mom, we look like you. That's what we look like, we look like you. 

[00:08:37] Angela Kennecke: Right. We all think it can't happen to us if we just do all the right things as best we can. Right? Yeah. Unfortunately, there are other influences besides us out there, . You know, I often say if I have to take full blame from my daughter, Using drugs, obviously becoming addicted, being in an abusive relationship and ultimately dying of fentanyl.

If I have to take full blame for that, do I get all the credit for another kid that is excelling in school? Just got a 4.0 and. Has been in no trouble at all. 

[00:09:10] Valerie Silveira: Well, and don't you also get credit for all the good parts of your daughter too? Because underneath the weight of their addiction beast, that's why I like to call it an addict.

I don't even like calling them addicts. Not that I'm trying to bury my head in the sand and pretend there's no responsibility on their part, but. it's like their addiction beast. It's like something has taken over their body. Oh, for sure. And their mind and their soul. And that's why I would tell her, I see you.

I know who you are. I don't, whatever all this is, is not you. . 

[00:09:36] Angela Kennecke: But I think also what's so heartbreaking as a mom is that intense love.

When my daughter, Emily was born, I felt like, oh, I, finally know why I'm here. I finally know my purpose in life like it is to raise this child and protect her and give her everything that I can. And it's that intensity of the love. That I'd never felt before. And you know, I've been in romantic relationships.

Obviously I'm in one now with my husband, and I don't mean this is any disrespect to him, but that love that you have for your children is something that is so unique 

[00:10:09] Valerie Silveira: I said, I didn't know true love myself until my daughter was born.

That's when I knew. A love that I'd never experienced before my son was born, never experienced it since. Again, no disrespect, Rich, , it's different and they're a part of us. And I think the thing for a mom is we're wired to nurture and protect and when we have zero control, I am nearly self destructed. Internally.

I was smiling on the outside. But I was dying on the inside because I couldn't save her. I couldn't pray enough. I kept looking for that thing and I could tell her, you know, that one little thing that would be the spark. I was always looking for that thing. And I could never find it. And I know a lot of moms feel this way too, that the shame and the guilt, even though you never held her down and put drugs in her, we have this guilt. We don't know why, but we do. But it nearly destroys us. And then we've compounded this already devastating situation when we start to self-destruct as moms.

And that's why my mission is to help other moms realize we're not discounting our kids. , we don't stop caring. But you have to come to the realization. This is literally Angela. One day I looked at myself and said, if you had the ability to save Jamie, wouldn't you have done it years ago? It's not because I'm not good enough. I never had that much power, but coming to that realization and accepting it is not easy. 

[00:11:33] Angela Kennecke: I think it's the acceptance part for sure. So she's 18, she gets shot and she nearly loses her life at that time. For many people, that could have been a turning point 

[00:11:44] Valerie Silveira: I certainly thought that. I mean, I really did. This is how I describe it. So we were in the hospital one night. I stayed by her bedside, of course, for days in this ICU Recovery, and one night in the middle of the night she goes, mommy, will you pray with me? She always called me mommy, even till the day she died.

And I'm not this out loud praying kind of person. It's not my comfort zone or anything like that. But that night I was like to say, like I had made a Baptist preacher proud. You know? I mean, I just prayed and thought I didn't think I knew everything was gonna be okay. Jamie's coming back. She's done with this world like you're saying. I mean, can things get worse? 

but then, you know, I had to buckle up my seatbelt and strap down my shoulder harness on that rollercoaster from hell ride cuz it was going to get a lot worse. And it did. After she left home, 40 days later from recovering, she went right down to the DA's office and recanted her testimony that she had given in the hospital.

he was eventually arrested. We're going to this, attempted murder trial without the victim. So it was a nightmare. What are you thinking? You know, but we found out he had threatened everybody from jail using his mom as the conduit. And you're living a Jerry Springer episode essentially.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:12:51] Angela Kennecke: Despite Jamie not testifying against her abuser, the suspect did receive a decade long prison sentence. It wasn't enough to save Jamie from her downward spiral though while she was trying to recover from the gunshot wound. She ended up getting hooked on Oxycontin and eventually heroin.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:13:14] Angela Kennecke: parents ask me, how do you navigate this road of an addicted child?

I don't have an easy roadmap for them. 

[00:13:21] Valerie Silveira: No. It's like when I wrote my first book called Still Standing After All the Tears, and a lot of, moms, really related to that book. But I'm very clear on this. If you're looking for the answer to how to handle your son or daughter's addiction, this isn't the book for you.

You know, I'm trying to help you. I don't have, if you had an answer, you'd be a billionaire. And it's different for everybody. So I'm always reluctant to give out too much advice on a specific situation. I don't even really deal with that because I'm not equipped to do that. The first time I spoke to a treatment center and talked about some of her symptoms, some of the things she was doing, they said, oh, that's heroin, you know, and they deal with this every day. So they threw it out. They're like, oh, you know, this is a loaf of bread and I could hardly breathe. 

I mean, how am I gonna use the word Jamie and heroin in the same sentence? How's that even gonna work? Right, 

[00:14:08] Angela Kennecke: right. It's so true, and at time we were growing up, we didn't know people who used heroin. I mean, oh no. It was such a, scary drug. And you heard of people occasionally overdosing from heroin. Of course, in my daughter's case, the heroin that she used was laced with fentanyl when she died, which I also think is a form of murder.

[00:14:28] Valerie Silveira: That's a whole nother discussion. This country should be very, very concerned about this. I mean, beyond what it is right now. This is a, massive epidemic. , I mean, elementary schools, it's everywhere. I mean, it's, it's really scary. 

[00:14:41] Angela Kennecke: But the same thing could have happened to your daughter. However, she was killed in a violent manner, which I just, it just hurts my heart, to even ask you about, but, We could cover the time in between. She was 18 until the time of 

[00:14:55] Valerie Silveira: her death. Oh. Oh. That's not, because that's the Jerry Springer episode. It's a Jerry 

[00:15:00] Angela Kennecke: Springer series. That's the chaos. That's the chaos, right.

We all know about the 

[00:15:04] Valerie Silveira: chaos. Yeah. 

[00:15:05] Angela Kennecke: and so she was in and out of your life during that time? 

[00:15:08] Valerie Silveira: She was in and out of rehab, and I would say the only reason she was in and outta my life to any extent was because at some point I finally said, Jamie, I will stand with you every single time you choose life, but when you choose death, I can't watch you die or help you die anymore cuz it, it's killing me.

And so I basically kind of painted a picture of her, like she didn't already know of what my life was like, far from perfect. But, you know, I'm a person of integrity. I tell the truth, I follow the law. You know, this is my world and I want you in it. But this is how it looks, so it's only fair that you understand how it looks.

And she said, that's fair, mom. And so, before she died, I hadn't seen her for a year and a half. Oh. And so of course that was, you know, where the guilt tried to creep in on me. Again. I'm, to tell you what, as strong as I've become, Angela, even the other day I told Rich, I said, you know, I wish I would've reached out more.

 But part of me, it was because I had no solutions. You know, at some point it just becomes, like you said, chaos and constant f frustra and, and honestly it's been almost seven years, it took me probably two or three years where my phone would ring and my heart didn't go in my throat.

And then seeing a, strange number on there why I didn't just go into a panic. I'm kind of phone averse still. 

[00:16:22] Angela Kennecke: It's a form of PTSD really, I mean, it's very traumatic what we've been through, and it's only makes sense that there would be certain triggers that last for a long time.

spring is a trigger for me because so many things in the spring, her birthday. , last day I saw her alive was on Mother's Day, her death date. So spring, nice weather, you know, you're waiting. I live in the Midwest where we wait, nine months out of the year for spring or whatever.

And just brings up a lot of melancholy for me. But, I think there are always gonna be triggers, right? Yeah, sure. And, and so you hadn't seen her, but you had started to work on yourself, 

[00:16:56] Valerie Silveira: right? Yes, two or three years before I basically pulled the emergency break and got off the rollercoaster from hell as I say it, cuz I kept waiting for this thing to stop.

You know, I kept thinking every rollercoaster I've been on before has some kind of an ending to it, and this thing just doesn't stop. What happened was I was standing in my kitchen and I said to Rich, I had thought this so many times, Angela, but I was afraid to say it out loud, didn't wanna hurt him.

I finally just said, I don't wanna be here anymore. It's too hard and it'd been 13 years and we'll, you know, there it was. I said it. And I'll never forget the look on his face. You know, the person he loves most in this world can't fix it. Help it. it's my daughter causing it, you know, he's our stepfather.

But those words coming outta my mouth, it was interesting, out of my mouth, into my ears, my heart. It really scared me into action. It, scared me that I said that and felt that way. I wasn't about to do something, but that's how I felt. Then I started thinking about my son and I thought, this is not right.

As good as I am at trying to shield him and pretend and put on a good show and all this. He is losing his first best friend and his only sibling and he is not gonna lose his mom. Mm-hmm. Nope, nope, nope. I said, that's not gonna be me. My legacy, where, I gave up and I showed him, and even Jamie, this is what I'm gonna show them, that when life gets tough, you give up.

No. if I don't teach them what it looks like to stand up in your darkest days, who's gonna do that for them? Or am I gonna hope someone else comes along? And, it's not like I just flipped a switch and, you know, everything was peachy. It was a, a battle. 

[00:18:32] Angela Kennecke: It strikes me that not everyone is able to do that because I think we all get to that low point where we feel like we'd just rather be dead than feel this pain anymore.

I mean, I just think that's a natural human response. I'm not talking about being, suicidal. I'm talking about just thinking. I just wish I wasn't here so I didn't have to do this. unfortunately, I do know of one family, they lost a child to fentanyl poisoning and the mother drank herself to death leaving behind other siblings.

I know another family where one of the boys died of fentanyl poisoning and the mother. Took her life, leaving behind another sibling. So not everyone is able to pull themselves outta that pit of despair. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:19:17] Angela Kennecke: Valerie says she was finally able to climb out of the depths of despair by shifting her attention away from her own personal pain and redirecting it toward others who were struggling.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:19:32] Valerie Silveira: My son, told me different things. Like, you know, I became an only child overnight. You know, things that I, I'm over here in my grief. Of course I cared what was going on with him. But those were moments that I think, wow, he's right, or when he turned 30 and he said, every day after this, I'll be older than Jamie.

You know, she's my older sister and , all of these things. But I tell you what I've received and had many discussions with my son where he has said, because of you and the work that you do, that's how I'm where I am today. I've been able to get here because of you. You're the most important person in my world. I've had to tell him, no, no, you're gonna get married. But he has since I can't be the most important anymore. But I mean, 

[00:20:11] Angela Kennecke: he's still kind of nice as a mom 

[00:20:12] Valerie Silveira: to hear that though. Oh yes. I know. It's so funny. My sister-in-law goes, you told him what? You should just accept that. I said no. Yeah, yeah, it has to be his wife.

But the point is, we've had many discussions where he has flat out told me that because he respected me a lot. I was the person he looked up to most in his life if I had gone downhill or sideways it scares me to think about where he'd be today. So it's more than just about us and our grief. I don't ever want him to ever think that Jamie was more important than him.

[00:20:44] Angela Kennecke: Right. I worry about that a little bit and don't you ever worry about that because you do spend a lot of time telling Jamie's story and talking about Jamie and grief and all of this. I've had people ask me, does Emily's Hope overshadow you know your other children? And I say, absolutely not, because I tell my kids. Every day that I can, how grateful I am for them and how much they mean to me. I'm encouraging for them, I support them. And also they're very involved in the charity and I think it's helped them with the loss of their sister, so, sure. But I, can see the perception is when you're out there talking about a story that happened to you that involves one of your children, is that that's all you think about?

[00:21:25] Valerie Silveira: Well, but at the same time, people have to remember what our kids have gone through. The ones not in addiction, 

they've been watching what it does to us. They know what it's done to themselves. And I think at some point, I mean, they'd much rather have you out talking about Emily than self-destructing and crying in the walk-in closet, which is what I did. Sure, sure. 

So I think for Sean, he was just so grateful that, and even Jamie, before she was murdered, actually, she had my book and a workbook when they found her and, you know, gathered up her things, which was kind of cool. But I had this communication with her. She had sent me an email. We had some exchanges a few weeks, maybe a little over a month before she died. And one of the things that really touched me, but I also think is an important message for others, is that she said, mommy, I'm so proud of you.

And I thought, what a gift for me. But more important than that, I feel like it's, a message I need to carry to others because, She was never proud of me when I was self-destructing, when I was guilt tripping her, when I was mad at her, when you know, all of the other stuff. I never heard those words when I went out and took my life back and started helping others. So even Jamie in her addiction, I. Was proud of me and Sean feels the same way. And your children in your charity, which is so cool. I love hearing that.

Sean has spoken at our events. We're actually having another event in Phoenix here. , I'm in Phoenix now, called Warriors and hope, the freedom experience and my son is going to actually take to the stage for the first time on his own and speak. 

[00:22:54] Angela Kennecke: Oh, isn't that fantastic? 

[00:22:56] Valerie Silveira: Yeah, it's fantastic. 

[00:22:58] Angela Kennecke: So before Jamie had died, you were already doing this work. What were you trying to teach at that point, and how was it different than what you're teaching now?

[00:23:08] Valerie Silveira: I would say expanded and improved and I have more knowledge and more experience and other people's experience. And I learn from people all the time. But I started out, when I wrote my first book, I had this Nine Actions to Battle Your Beast. And there basically were just things that I figured out that I was doing, that I still do today to help me manage, the big stuff. You know, life's two by fours, as I call 'em, like. A child dying suddenly or addiction,

but also, Everyday fears. I mean, we are living in a, I feel like in my 61 years, a time of unprecedented fear and fear is it, it's destructive. And so I, I don't think my messaging hasn't changed a whole lot other than things have been added where I've been able to now understand a different type of grief. I was already grieving. Right. We're, we're already grieving when they're in addiction. We're losing them over and over and over. And then this is a different, 

so it's kind of interesting where I almost feel like, well now I went before a lot of these moms, unfortunately, that some of them will lose their kids. That we can't pretend it's not going to happen to some it is. And so, I'm able to help them to know that you can not only go on, you can go on and do something good with your life, we are stronger than we think. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:24:26] Angela Kennecke: But Valerie's strength was truly put to the test when she got the devastating news. No parent ever wants to hear. It was August of 2016 when Jamie just 30 years old, was shot multiple times. As emergency workers rushed to the scene, they desperately tried to revive her through CPR. Despite their efforts, Jamie died.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:24:51] Valerie Silveira: I got that knock on the door that no mom can prepare for. Doesn't matter. Nine actions, 27 doesn't matter, right? You can't prepare. I was fully aware that I thought of overdosing. That was of course top of mind. 

But when the officer from the coroner's office came to deliver the news that she had been murdered, I mean, it doesn't matter how you lose them, you lose them.

It's just another level of, shock. And how in the world did you get yourself involved with these types of people? How did you become one of these types of people? Anyway, the long story short is that. We just had a preliminary hearing six and a half years after. It took six and a half years to get to what is your right, at 60 days.

[00:25:33] Angela Kennecke: Oh my gosh. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:25:34] Angela Kennecke: Authorities arrested 42 year old Marcus Cruz Gaeta in 2019 for allegedly murdering Jamie. However, he just had his preliminary hearing earlier this year where witnesses testified that they saw Gaeta shoot Jamie multiple times outside of their house. It's not just Jamie's death that Gaeta is linked to. He's also the suspect in another murder in Arizona that happened after Jamie's death and before Gaeta was arrested.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:26:22] Valerie Silveira: angela, that's the thing I used to tell the detectives all the time. The thing that scares me the most is he's gonna do it again. If he isn't behind bars, and I mean, it made me sick to think that another family has to go through what we are. But that's how he got caught is that they sent word to the Palm Springs area. That's where it happened, that they believed he was there.

And so they got this whole task force together. I don't know all these agencies, and they hunted him down for a couple days. And finally got him arrested and then California Riverside County decided, okay, let's jump on board since we have him, and they haven't released him to Arizona yet, so it's proceeding.

But you know, for those who don't know, the preliminary hearing is your right as a defendant to have the evidence, presented to you within 60 days of your arrest so that you know, innocent people want this done quickly so they can get out. he waived his right to a speedy trial. He's fired all sorts of attorneys, including himself. in any case, we finally had a preliminary hearing, and I have to tell you that we were brave and we were doing it and everything, but it was brutal because it was an entire day of evidence presenting, including coroner's reports. And they did put three witnesses on the record, and they were not the upstanding citizens you would love to have. God forbid you're in this position. 

But you know what? I gotta tell you something, Angela, I don't know when I've ever felt more impressed by three little souls who had nothing to gain from this, nothing to gain and everything to lose. They had all been threatened and they got up there and did the right thing for justice for Jamie and told what they saw.

So we all know about the collateral damage of all this stuff we go through. Right. That's one of the things I call collateral beauty when I have a moment to experience something so incredible and so unexpected. 

[00:28:16] Angela Kennecke: Also, a great movie will Smith is in it. Collateral Beauty. Yes. Great movie,

but I am just astounded because I understand that the defendant has a right to the speedy trial. But the victims in the case, the victims' families, I mean, for this to drag on, for him to not be in custody, for him to commit it sounds as if at least he's accused of murdering another person, following your daughter's murderer.

For all of that to happen seems like such a travesty of justice for you to have to wait around for. Six and a half years 

[00:28:50] Valerie Silveira: You have no idea the rights that defendants have., we wrote a letter to the judge because there is a law that protects. victims in which we are now considered so we write to the judge and we go, well, you know, how long are you gonna allow him to keep disrespecting not only us, but the court itself?

And I don't know if it's gonna help at all, but Oh, he's busy suing the county for not taking care of his medical needs and all this stuff that just keeps getting in the way. And the only thing we can guess is that, his hope is that people are threatened enough, some will die, they'll, whatever.

The good news is we got three people on the record. But it'll take a year or two to get to trial. So that could be anywhere, you know, up to nine years, eight or nine years since she died. Then because we have to then go through the appellate process. it's possible that, it gets overturned or any number of things could happen. And that's why I talk to Sean because if there ever was something like a plea bargain, I tell Sean that they would come to me mainly. But it's really about, it's you because I'll probably die while he's in prison. You are the one that's gonna have to live. 

[00:29:51] Angela Kennecke: And he's accused of shooting her in cold blood. 

[00:29:53] Valerie Silveira: Seven times. Yes, yes. Seven times. Yes. She was unarmed. She didn't do anything to him. Yeah. 

[00:30:00] Angela Kennecke: The justice system definitely is broken in so many areas, and I'm sorry that this trails on for you. I would think that you have to apply some of the same principles you've used in coping with her addiction and in coping with her death to coping with this. 

[00:30:16] Valerie Silveira: Absolutely. I mean, one of the things that sounds crazy until I explain it, one of the things I did early on is I forgave him, now. Here's the deal. Forgiveness and justice are two different, completely different things. Forgiveness is for me because I do not want him in my head. He blew a hole in my heart. He doesn't get to live in my heart. So I've let him completely go from, you know, when I see him, I wanna punch him in the head. I'm gonna be honest, but I don't think about him.

I want him to go to prison for the rest of his life, but I refuse to hold onto anger that will destroy me. So I never would've imagined it. Angela, I used to watch people being interviewed. That would say, you know, my son or daughter was killed, but I forgiven them. And I thought, really? Who are these people? Right? 

They must be raised by pastors. I don't know. Who are these people? That's not me. I'd never forgive them. 

[00:31:05] Angela Kennecke: Well, and forgiveness is really for you, it's really absolutely. Forgiveness is so that that anger and bitterness doesn't eat you alive because it's not hurting the person who perpetrated this horrible thing onto your loved one. in the case of my daughter, I sat through weeks of trials of these drug dealers and it was very eye-opening for me. 

But many people who are suffering from substance use disorder, who are even in prison, testified against these guys. They did the right thing. And isn't that amazing?

Yes. And these guys went to prison one is serving 10 years, another is serving 20 years and one is serving a life sentence. I mean, more than just my daughter died from the fentanyl that they were bringing into our, 

[00:31:48] Valerie Silveira: I'm glad they're finally prosecuting these people. 

[00:31:50] Angela Kennecke: And this was a federal case, 

but one thing I would say, I was lucky to see that because I know so many parents never get justice. Like it just doesn't happen. No one's arrested. So. I guess in my case, I was lucky. It was very difficult to sit through all that. It was very difficult to hear many things and have my daughter be accused of certain things that are not true. 

[00:32:09] Valerie Silveira: Oh, that the way they painted my daughter out was sickening. Yes. 

[00:32:12] Angela Kennecke: Right, right. And they're dead. And they can't defend themselves and people can say anything they want about dead person. Right. So, right. That was tough. That was tough. 

But I will say that once that they received the convictions and the sentences, I didn't feel any better. You know, it didn't make me feel better. It didn't lessen my loss at all, I guess I was glad that they were off the streets and there was one less dealer on the streets, one less dealer bringing in a tainted poisonous product, but, it just, it didn't heal me. their sentences didn't heal me. 

[00:32:43] Valerie Silveira: Right. I think when people talk about that closure and things like that, I don't know that, that, for me, there's such a thing, but that's why in advance of it all, I said, he doesn't get to live in my head. He doesn't get to live in my heart. He taunted me at the preliminary hearing, turned around, laughed at me, and taunted me, and I stood my ground. I won't tell you what I mouthed at him because it's probably not. Good for your podcast, but yes. No, but I was tough. 

I, I stood my ground and I'm not gonna let him do that to me. but I decided early on that if he was never arrested, cuz remember it was two and a half years and we didn't know if they'd ever find him. I thought, I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be better than okay. Even if he's never arrested. I have to, I mean, imagine if I had done that and now we're sitting here at six and a half years and we just had a preliminary hearing. I already decided early on that I wasn't gonna do that.

So I'm gonna be okay no matter what. And I feel like you said that, I don't feel as if even when he gets convicted, oh, trust me, I'll probably cheer out loud, but I don't feel like it's gonna be the period at the end of the sentence that people think, 

[00:33:46] Angela Kennecke: no, it's not . I mean, that's what I would say. I would say that for me anyway, it was not, yeah.

 It is something, it is better than nothing, but it is not the period at the end of the sentence. And I think what you said about not allowing the abuser or the perpetrator to have power over you. I mean, you go all the way back to, concentration camps and the prisoners who survived. Didn't allow the Nazi guards to get in their head and control how they felt about things and themselves. Right.

[00:34:15] Valerie Silveira: That's funny. Say that I just read Man's Search for Meaning. So it's my favorite book. It's on my list for, let's see, I don't know how many decades and for some reason I just read it a couple of weeks ago. And that's exactly what you're talking about.

[00:34:27] Angela Kennecke: Yes. And that's what you're talking about with this guy. he's not showing. Any sign that he saw your daughter as a human being and a loved and cherished daughter, he's taunting you. That's what it reminds me of. And by the way, Victor Frankel has so many amazing quotes that I use all the time, and I just think he really had to go through so much, and that's awful. But he got it. talking about in his book, the things that we're talking about now today. 

[00:34:51] Valerie Silveira: Yes. I mean, again, he got to decide. We get to decide. I mean, we get to decide. It's horrible. I, I mean, honestly, Angela, I wish we could have met in a different way. Hmm. But here we are, right? This is our story. 

[00:35:07] Angela Kennecke: Also, there are so many opportunities and things that have happened, I think because of the response that I chose to my daughter's death, not because of her death. Because of the response that I chose that have brought me into situations that have had me encounter people like you that have brought new friends into my life and new experiences that I never could have imagined. Now that's not because my daughter died, it's because of the response I chose. And I think about that a lot. 

[00:35:38] Valerie Silveira: Yeah, you're, no, you're exactly right. And I also think that in a lot of ways, I'm a better person. Even in Jamie's addiction, I learned things, and this is something that Sean and I have both come to the conclusion of my son.

One of the things is that Jamie never judged anybody. Now, maybe it was easy for her not to judge cuz she was in this world where people were pretty messed up. But I always thought about that even in her addiction, we were judging her. She never judged us. She never judged us for judging her, and she forgave so easily what I call the F word. She forgave so easily that people can teach us things in the most, you know, the most unlikely of people and the most unlikely of situations.

I

[00:36:21] Angela Kennecke:  think you're right. We're all imperfect and we can learn from everybody we encounter in our life. Even those who seem to bring us a lot of pain and trouble, there are still lessons to be learned from those people, and I would. Do it all again, you know? just to have my amazing daughter, just to have the years, especially the good years 

[00:36:42] Valerie Silveira: maybe we're sisters and we don't know it because we seem to be So, when I was listening, 

[00:36:47] Angela Kennecke: when I was listening and reading about you, I'm like, wait, I, I said this, but she said it before me, but I, I said it after her, but I didn't know she said it or whatever. Is that, isn't it crazy?

[00:36:55] Valerie Silveira: Yeah, yeah. 

But I say all the time, if I had to do it over again, all of it. The 15 years of hell that Jamie lived in her addiction. If I had to do it all, all of it, you know, all the chaos, all the shooting, all the everything. I'm not gonna get emotional for the privilege of being her mother, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

[00:37:17] Angela Kennecke: They were extraordinary people. Just as all of our children are extraordinary, they have their own. Special characteristics and I think lessons to bring to us. And one thing I wanted to ask you about, was your faith. So I think you were a lot like me when you tried to detach from the person that you couldn't help, that you couldn't control. Obviously we can't control adult children. I couldn't even control her as a teenager. The Lord knows I tried. Yes. 

All of the prayers. You know, I prayed and prayed. I always say I prayed, I'm Catholic, and I went to. Rome and I prayed at St. Peter's Basilica. I prayed at the, chapel where the Pope prays. I prayed at the grave of saints. I prayed and prayed and prayed, and yet she died. And my prayer was always that she live up to her potential. But then when she died, I felt as if God had let me down. Really. I did all the things that I was supposed to do. Went to church. She went to private school, you know, all these things. And I prayed and prayed and prayed, and yet, and yet she died. 

[00:38:22] Valerie Silveira: You don't wanna know how I felt when that happened. I felt like it was a middle finger from heaven. That's what I call it. I mean, it wasn't, I don't think God gave me the middle finger, but I'm telling you, Angela, that's how it felt to me. Can you relate to that?

I can, you know, because I prayed for a miracle every morning I would pray for a miracle and then try to go about my life cuz I knew it was gonna take a miracle. You know, Jamie wasn't, really even trying that hard to be honest with you. And so I thought it would take a miracle. And so I prayed for this miracle every day. But what really got me is that I believed it and that's faith. 

I believed he was gonna give me the miracle. I did too. So when she was murdered, I screamed at him. I mean, I was screaming at the top of my lungs, you know, that you got this wrong, you screwed up. She could have gone and helped so many people cuz we had talked about speaking in high schools together and, you know, times when she was clean we would talk about the different things that she could do to help people.

And I thought, man, you blew this one. You know, this is when he's gonna sit back and go, oh, I made a big fat mistake. I don't understand it all. Here's the bottom line. I don't understand it all. I mean, I just read the Bible again, cover to cover. I don't understand God's ways We're not supposed to. But one thing I got over and over and over from that last reading was we are called to be courageous.

So I'm just gonna do that. I'm just gonna be courageous. the alternative of losing my faith is to say, well, I'll just go it alone and pretend I have it all together and I understand it all and I don't. So I'm just going, okay, God, you allowed this. I said you could have jammed the gun. You could have caused a flat tire. You know, I'm naming the whole list off. it's true. He could have, he didn't, and I don't know why. And I figured maybe when I get to heaven I'll ask him, but I probably won't care when I get there. 

So I don't know the answer to, I just don't like the alternative to not having faith for me.

[00:40:15] Angela Kennecke: Right. I think there's a lot to be said for that. The alternative is not, very, Appealing either, but it's sort of a quandary that you're stuck in when something tragic happens in your life to try to make sense of it. Right. Especially if you are a faithful person. And I think, yeah, it's, it's a tough thing.

[00:40:35] Valerie Silveira: And it doesn't seem fair. Well, no one ever said life was gonna be fair, but I think you and I talked about, you and I had obviously independent, really people we just met today, of each other have said so many of the same things. And I literally was looking in the mirror one day when I was going, well, let's see, for the 1,500 and however many times, saying, why me? Why me? You know, why is it that all my siblings get to have all of this going on with their kids and everything's so wonderful? And why me? Why me such a victim? And I literally, I. Looked at that woman that was looking back at me and I said, why not you? Why not you? Why not you be the one that shows how to get through this?

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[00:41:14] Angela Kennecke: And that's actually one of the first things I said after Emily's death in an interview I did. And I said, instead of asking, why me, why not me? the reason I said it is because I had interviewed so many parents over the years and other people who had had horrific things happen who had lost children. And I knew I'm no different than these parents. Just because I'm the reporter on the other end of the microphone asking the questions doesn't mean that I'm protected from bad things happening to me just like it can to so many people. 

[00:41:45] Valerie Silveira: Right. No, but I also think you were questioning that because you did so many things Right. In raising her. And you know, that's the other thing we talked about before is we try so hard to do so many things right. And we think it should count for something. 

[00:41:58] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, well, it feels like a waste of time. It feels like, why did I go into all that effort? Why did I shop for slippers at Walmart at midnight when the next day was slipper day?

 Why did I volunteer in the classroom every single week? why did I, work two jobs in order to send her to an expensive summer camp that she wanted to go to? I mean, Those are valid questions cuz it all seems that when all is said and done and they die young, it seems like, what was I doing that for?

[00:42:25] Valerie Silveira: Yeah, but you know what? I wanna say something that I think that you will relate to, it does matter. I. Because I've had so many people, contact me from many years of Jamie's life in and out of addiction after she died. So many people contacted me and said, your daughter was the best friend. I dunno how many best friends you can have, but it seemed like she had a lot of them, and they'd say the same things over and over.

She thought the world of you. She loved you so much. She was such a good friend. You could count on her, you know, da da da, da da. And I think the thing that people have to remember is that even when people are in addiction, they're not just laying in a corner with a needle in their arm 24 hours a day. They're living, they have a life. It might not be the one we want them living, but they are touching other people's lives. They are impacting people. 

You know, it is why. These people came and testified on Jamie's behalf. I'm sure that you have the same stories. Emily did touch people before her addiction, and I believe during 

[00:43:29] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, it's true. There's truth in that. I have heard from a lot of people who knew her throughout her life and thought very highly of her, and she had such a big heart and, was so kind and nonjudgmental. 

I wanted to ask you one final thing before we wrap up, and that is, I just spoke to a mother the other day who lost her son less than a week ago, to fentanyl poisoning and had been through to hell and back with addiction as well. And we have many new grieving parents listening to this podcast. Do you offer any advice for them, those who are early on in this journey that you and I are a little bit farther 

[00:44:07] Valerie Silveira: ahead on? 

Yeah, I mean, that's a tough question. I get asked that quite a bit, but I would say, first of all, it is different. I hate to say this because I do believe that the whole in their heart is not going to heal, and I think it's important that people know that. So they don't expect that one day they'll wake up and everything's okay, but. What you will surround that hole with will make a difference. So I feel like the hole in my heart's just as big as the day she died, but I'm stronger.

I've learned so much. And I think the most important thing is that they know they're not alone. I felt alone. During most of Jamie's addiction, I didn't even know anybody who had a child in addiction and I felt alone. 

So I think it's important that they know they're not alone. And I also think it's so important they know that their son or daughter mattered and they still matter because there's so much shame that comes with this, so this is why my son, Sean, has taught me the biggest lesson of all. On all of those milestone dates. You talked about her birthday, mainly in her angel anniversary. He used to try to get through them and then he decided, I'm just gonna have fun on those days cuz then I don't have to cry all day. But what he didn't realize is that I joined him. Once I moved over to Phoenix, we started rewiring our brains.

So we rewired our brains to look at things differently. Now we'll have a big party and people who never knew her came and we talk about her like she's just down the street because Sean said, I don't want. Jamie's death to be that thing that happened to me. She was my sister. 

And so for us, I think it's important that people talk about their loved ones and not feel like they can't, because the end was fentanyl poisoning, you know? Or the end was a bullet that doesn't invalidate them. 

And so I just want people whose sons and daughters have died through this addiction crisis. To know that they're loved and valued and they don't have to be ashamed of what happened. 

[00:46:09] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, that's wonderful. And that's why we do this podcast, to let people know they're not alone and to give them some light and some hope.

And so I think you're doing that by example. Valerie, thank you so much for everything that you do. We're gonna put links to your website and your book and everything on the show notes of this podcast. It's also on our website, so thank you so much for joining 

[00:46:31] Valerie Silveira: me. 

Thank you for having me. It's really an honor. Angela.

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[00:46:35] Angela Kennecke: Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. We hope you found it helpful. If you did, we'd appreciate you rating it along with providing a positive review. It helps further our mission to raise awareness about this nation's drug epidemic, reduce stigma associated with substance use disorder, and get more people into treatment, and hopefully avoid the kind of pain that Valerie and I have gone through.

Thank you for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

 This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg-King and Anna Fey

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