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[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: The Rosebud Reservation, it's one of the poorest areas in the United States and has been devastated by our nation's drug epidemic. New data from the C D C reveals that Native Americans are suffering the highest number of deadly drug overdoses involving fentanyl and meth. To make matters worse, official government reports suggest that Mexican drug cartels are deliberately targeting rural Native American reservations.

But we have some hope to share with you today. On Grieving Out Loud, we're sitting down with Carrie Reiners, a licensed professional counselor who has been working in the Todd County School District in Rosebud for 24 years. She's been fighting against this trend for more than two decades and is now part of the pilot program for the Emily's Hope Prevention Education Curriculum, a K through five curriculum designed to teach kids the effects of substances on the brain, body, and their life in order to promote healthy choices.

[00:01:15] Carrie Reinders: I'm thankful that if they come to my office and they share about what's going on, how can I help them cope with what is going on even though a situation is bad, what can we do to kind of help you in that moment to be better?

 To help you get through missing a parent, maybe because they are in jail, missing a parent because maybe they're at treatment right now. Missing a parent because they're living with another family member because the parent is using and can't take care of them.

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[00:01:50] Angela Kennecke: Carrie, welcome to the podcast and it is a pleasure to have you join me. We met because of the Emily's Hope Prevention Education curriculum, and you are teaching in a very unique place in the country. There aren't a lot of other places exactly like Todd County, South Dakota, and I just have admire your dedication and I appreciate you taking on this curriculum to pass it along to your students as well.

[00:02:15] Carrie Reinders: Thank you. 

[00:02:16] Angela Kennecke: So you have been teaching at Rosebud, the Rosebud Sioux Reservation in South Dakota, in Todd County, which is one of the poorest counties in the nation. Consistently has been. And you've been there a long time. Can you tell me a little bit about your background, how you ended up r on a reservation in South Dakota?

[00:02:34] Carrie Reinders: Well, I'm originally from Cudahy, Wisconsin, which is a suburb of Milwaukee, and I went to college and grad school in Winona, Minnesota. And when I was getting my master's in school counseling, I needed to do an internship. And so, At the Career Placement Office it said Rosebud Elementary. So I sent in an application and came out for an interview and was able to do my internship here, and 24 years later, I'm still here.

[00:03:05] Angela Kennecke: 24 years is a long time to be anywhere, but it's. Especially a long time to be some place where it's remote. Yes. There are also some cultural differences I should mention that you are white and you are teaching on a Native American reservation. So tell me about some of those challenges 

[00:03:23] Carrie Reinders: you know, there really hasn't been a lot in terms of. Culture. I love my job. I love living here. And I'm just very thankful that I've been here this long. What do you love about it?

So the big thing that I love is I work with elementary kids, and my school at Rosebud Elementary is K through five. I have gone to a couple of our outlying schools that are K through eight during my years here. Um, But mostly I've always been at Rosebud Elementary and I love that I get to go in the classrooms and teach what.

It's called like developmental guidance lessons, developmental classroom lessons to the students, and that really helps me connect with our students here at school. How many students are in your school there at Rosebud Elementary, so we have on average around 300. Sometimes it can be a little more, a little less.

[00:04:20] Angela Kennecke: What are the challenges of living in a remote area like that? 

[00:04:25] Carrie Reinders: Well, for me, coming from a big city you know, the closest Walmart being a couple hours away and things like that, I would say resources shopping, different things that are needed. Um, But thankfully we're able to order online and things like that, so, but I would say resources is the big thing.

[00:04:46] Angela Kennecke: What did you have to learn about Native American culture? there mistakes you made early on? I know you've been there for a couple of decades now. Mm-hmm. But what did you have to learn? 

[00:04:56] Carrie Reinders: Are some things that I learned about the culture just in general. Pow wows and sundances and different cultural things that families do.

 Language is one of them. So early on there were things that I wasn't afraid to ask our staff about culture to learn because I didn't know a lot. Growing up in Wisconsin. There are different reservations, but I didn't live near different reservations. So I wouldn't be afraid to ask staff and they would tell me if you need to know, ask.

So I did that and then making sure that I am in the community to see the different activities that happen to learn. Also, I would say about, 10 years ago, there was a curriculum that we taught, the counselors taught called Circle of Hope curriculum, and that was one of my concerns too, about if I'm teaching a Native American cultural curriculum, how will that be?

And. It went really well. The kids were very open to it. We had a lot of great discussions with it as well.

[00:06:10] Angela Kennecke: I know there have been efforts to bring back a lot of cultural practices, including the native language and those kinds of things. 

[00:06:18] Carrie Reinders: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we have been doing a lot at our school with the O S U U standards as well and bringing back a lot of cultural Things, language. 

A lot of our classrooms are doing things with language learning more about the culture, having an elder who had come in, you know, to classrooms to do different things.

So there's been a lot to bring culture back. 

[00:06:46] Angela Kennecke: Along with trying to bring culture back, there are also some realities of life on the reservation. And as a reporter in South Dakota for several decades, I covered a lot of societal issues on reservations from poverty. To drug trafficking, to missing and murdered indigenous people.

So we know there are a lot of issues, a lot of problems as well. 

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[00:07:11] Angela Kennecke: In fact, the C D C just released new data about drug overdose deaths. It shows that in 2021, native Americans had the highest death rate of any racial group due to fentanyl and meth. More than 30% higher than white Americans.

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[00:07:33] Angela Kennecke: How do some of those things show up in the classroom, do you think? 

[00:07:38] Carrie Reinders: I would say one of the things is just by conversation students have about things that are going on at home, being open, not only just to me as a counselor, but being open to their teachers as well. Whether Food issues at home or clothing or different things like that. 

[00:07:58] Angela Kennecke: So one of the things that I know about, because I have a little background on what you've been doing mm-hmm. Is that you've actually been teaching some drug and alcohol prevention. That doesn't happen a lot at the elementary school level.

In fact, Emily's Hope prevention curriculum is groundbreaking in that aspect, because there's not a lot available out there for younger kids, but because of some of those issues, I know there is a major problem with alcohol and meth and now heroin and other drugs everywhere. 

But it can specifically be a problem on reservations.

So you had already started working with your students on some of these issues, right? 

[00:08:34] Carrie Reinders: Yeah. So 24 years ago students had talked to me when I was going to start not necessarily a curriculum, because I didn't have a curriculum. So it was for me, finding information to teach the students on drug awareness and looking at, especially how Emily's Hope touches on, you know, like medication, what that is, and teaching the little kids about good drugs and bad drugs and what that looks like.

And then I had students talk to me about this video called The Boy who was swallowed by the drug monster and I had no idea what it was. The counselor before me had shown this D V D back then, and so I was able to locate it through one of our other counselors in the district and Sue Jackson. It's a story about her son Vince, who had struggled with drug use and on the back of the D V D you could contact her to talk at your school.

And so we watched the video. Sue has it on YouTube now, and I had contacted her and in the year 2001, her and her daughter had come. To our school to talk about her son's story. So every year it's something that the students talk about and unfortunately, a few years ago Vince had passed away from an overdose.

And so the students just like to know how his mom is doing, how his sister and his daughter are doing, and then. There was a curriculum called Here's Looking at You that the district had gotten, and there were some things that I would still pull from after all these years to implement.

So when I was approached about Emily's Hope, I thought this was a great tie in also because, not only about the drug use, but focusing on, the pause, think, act aspect. Also about students, you know, talking with them about, Hey, if you are ever in this situation, this is what you need to do. 

[00:10:37] Angela Kennecke: And I found that when I spoke to the kids in your classroom, and I did that virtually by Zoom.

Mm-hmm. And I spoke to them and several of them had their own stories of how drugs had affected their families already. Mm-hmm. And, not to say that that can happen in other places too. Not, not just on reservations for sure. Yeah. But to me, many of them have been forced to know these realities or to grow up rather quickly.

Right, right. Yeah. I was 

[00:11:08] Carrie Reinders: very impressed with how open they were to share with you. Not knowing, I mean, just knowing a little bit about your daughter's story and the curriculum. Some of the stories I had not heard from those students. But I think once that they started sharing, it felt comfortable for others to start sharing as well.

[00:11:30] Angela Kennecke: Right. And it was surprising to me how many kids had actually mm-hmm. Been touched by drugs and their families. So I think it's so important. Yeah. That they're hearing and talking with their teachers and counselors about these issues. And you had third to fifth graders in that group, right? Yeah. Yes.

Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is really important though that you are able to talk with them about these issues and they're able to give their feedback and to talk about the things that are really affecting their life right now. 

[00:11:57] Carrie Reinders: Oh yeah, definitely. They do like to share their stories, and I think when they do, especially that day, it kind of felt like they had the same thing going on, even though.

No one knew about it before, and it also was that comfort level too, of sharing with one another. Hey, I'm going through this. And then someone else brought up, oh, this is happening to my dad. Or my mom is going through this right now. Yeah. I was very proud of them for sharing that day.

[00:12:32] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. It also breaks my heart a little bit that these children mm-hmm. Have to already be experiencing some of the horrible realities of when you have a family member who's suffering from substance use disorder, you know, it really does rock their worlds.

[00:12:47] Carrie Reinders: It does, it does. And I'm thankful that if they come to my office and they share about what's going on, how can I help them cope with what is going on with them even though a situation is bad, what can we do to kind of help you in that moment to be better?

Often 

[00:13:11] Angela Kennecke: these things are cyclical or generational, whether that be abuse or drug use. Mm-hmm. Or poverty. You've been there 24 years, so what do you think are some of the keys to helping children not live out that cycle? 

[00:13:29] Carrie Reinders: That's a good question. So when I go into the classroom, it's all about prevention.

And so the framework that I am coming from to help the students is looking at how can we prevent something from happening? So in the classroom, just like with Emily's Hope, talking about. Okay, the different situations and how can we prevent, getting in a situation like that or what can, what can we do?

And then here in my office, talking about if they're seeing this firsthand in their family, what can we do? Not only. To cope to help you get through missing a parent, maybe because they are in jail, missing a parent because maybe they're at treatment right now. Missing a parent because they're living with another family member because the parent is using and can't take care of them.

So we talk about here. In your future, and I don't even have to say it, I have a lot of students that tell me when I'm older, I am not going to do this because of what I'm seeing right now. 

Have you 

[00:14:40] Angela Kennecke: seen these prevention measures work? I mean, you've got kids that are growing up now, if you've been there 24 years, you know, have you seen them?

[00:14:46] Carrie Reinders: Right, right. Work. You know, I do have some former students that will come back and check in. I don't know a hundred percent because Sure. You know, some of them don't come back. But there are students that, now they work at school with me so you can see, how their lives are.

They talk about lessons that we used to do because if they are a para in a classroom, and I'm teaching the same lesson, but doing a little bit of a twist, oh yeah, I remember when we did this. So I'm like, okay, it's stuck with you after all these years. So yeah, that's good to know. Yeah. That, and that has to be rewarding when you can make a difference.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it is. 

[00:15:27] Angela Kennecke: What do you think is the key to a successful prevention program? I mean, I think starting young is so important. That's why we're doing that at Emily's Hope. Right. But I've got a lot of experts who agree with me on that. Yeah. That we have to start younger. We can't wait until middle school or high school.

[00:15:43] Carrie Reinders: I totally agree with that. All my lessons, I start in kindergarten through fifth grade and teach the students, but I, I agree. Starting younger is better 

[00:15:54] Angela Kennecke: Why do you think that is? 

[00:15:56] Carrie Reinders: I think it is because here my kindergartners, when they're fifth graders, They remember, oh yeah, I remember when I was in kindergarten and you told me what's a good drug?

What's a bad drug? And then we just changed the terminology when they are older talking about you know, they know medication is a good drug that we get from a doctor and bad drugs. We focus on marijuana. We focus on now bringing in fentanyl, what that is. They know that, okay. Even though cigarettes and alcohol are illegal drugs, they're still not good for me.

And even talking about caffeine with the fifth graders, you know, they sometimes don't realize that that is a drug as well.

[00:16:38] Angela Kennecke: Right. And it can set the brain up, for other addictions. Which you don't really think about because coffee is so widely accepted in pop and things like that. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. So were there things in the Emily's Hope curriculum that you found to be helpful or unique for your students? 

[00:16:54] Carrie Reinders: Yeah. Well, overall, like they had mentioned to you, they liked it, they really liked the curriculum, even though we have some combined classrooms, so we focused on that third grade lesson and they really liked it.

I think the biggest things that stuck with them were the pause, think, act, talking about that. Okay, what does this look like? How we took different situations and talked about it, and then also learning about fentanyl and just realizing the grains of salt, what that would look like and how. Any of those drugs that are out there and it's being put in those drugs, what that can do to someone.

I think those were eye openers for our students as well. 

[00:17:39] Angela Kennecke: Did you feel that the kids were too young to learn about fentanyl or did you feel it was taught in a age appropriate way? Not in a, like a terrifying way, right.

[00:17:49] Carrie Reinders: No, I think it was very appropriate, even for the third graders, just understanding. What it could look like with the grains of salt and then trying to figure out.

Well, what is this? Why is it bad? Sometimes when I talk with them about marijuana and how that can be cut, you know, other drugs can be added to it. Explaining to them, okay, if so and so has this drug and then it gets passed to someone else and they add another drug to it, and then they realize, wow, that's really, really dangerous.

So, no, I think it was perfect for them to learn about it. 

[00:18:25] Angela Kennecke: Well, good. Well, good. I think that's about the only concern that I've heard. Just a very minor concern from one parent mm-hmm. Who was worried we were gonna like, scare the kids about fentanyl, which is not our intention at all. Right. It's just to let them know, you know, that they really, they have to stick to taking a medication from a trusted adult and we kind of explain who a trusted adult is.

Yep. , because nobody knows what's in something they could get from a friend or a stranger or someone else, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

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[00:18:53] Angela Kennecke: Experts recommend that you start talking to kids about drinking, smoking, and drugs when they're between the ages of five and seven, and you keep the discussion going. During episode 41 of Grieving Out Loud, we sat down with Jessica Lahey, the author of, The Addiction Inoculation.

[00:19:12] Jessica Lahey: so the best preventions are talk early and talk often. I swear to parents, I promise, the more you talk about this stuff, the easier it gets.

[00:19:20] Angela Kennecke: Lahey says that when possible, look for teaching moments with your children. Keep at age appropriate and make sure you're relating to them in a way they understand. 

[00:19:31] Jessica Lahey: Listen to your kids, don't talk from a place of judgment. And then on top of that, there are things like early intervention. We know some of the other risk factors, separate from genetics and trauma. Adverse childhood experiences are, academic failure is a really big one.

And so getting there early intervening, early undiagnosed learning issues. There were always kids in my classroom with undiagnosed or barely treated, learning issues. Social ostracism is a big risk factor for kids, and you can see how these things can become intertwined really easily. When a child is aggressive towards other children.

We need to deal with that at a very early age because that is a big risk factor. 

[00:20:08] Angela Kennecke: According to Lahey, physical and sexual abuse are also significant risk factors for developing a substance use disorder. The impact of such abuse is particularly concerning for Native American women, among whom almost one in three have reported experiencing rape. This is more than twice the reported rate for white women. These findings were reported by Amnesty International.

 (commercial break - visit www.morethanjustanumber.org) 

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[00:20:37] Angela Kennecke: And I just think that, these kids that you are working with every day, this is maybe a more unique group of kids than kids who live in other places.

I mean, I, I, I don't know. Do you think that's the case? 

[00:20:49] Carrie Reinders: Mm-hmm. You know, yeah, they are. Especially when you have cultural issues talking about, you know tobacco pipe for ceremonial use as opposed to right smoking a cigarette. So when I talk about that, we have to talk about the difference between those two.

Also, like you had mentioned, unfortunately those bad drugs are everywhere. And hearing though their classmates stories, I think helps and with me relating with them, not necessarily with certain drugs, but with alcohol, having parents, you know, that have had that substance use disorder with alcohol.

I think relating with the students also helps as well. 

[00:21:32] Angela Kennecke: Did you feel there was enough diversity in our prevention program? We tried to be conscious of that. Mm-hmm. And to make it diverse as possible. 

[00:21:39] Carrie Reinders: Yeah, I think it went well. Um, The students, you know, didn't mention anything. Cultural lives they could relate.

Yeah. That they could relate to these kids, these characters. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:51] Angela Kennecke: Well, good. Yeah. Good. That's so, yeah. So good to hear. And I really hope that it will make a difference in their lives. It's hard to know, right. So we're gonna be measuring and. We're so excited to offer you the curriculum K through five next year awesome.

So you have lessons for every grade rather than you were just piloting the third grade. But yeah. you know, we'll be studying long-term as much as we can to see the results of this prevention curriculum. But you, like I said, you've seen 24 years, you've already been doing some of this on your own because you saw the need for it, right?

Right. And not everyone is getting that in elementary school. 

[00:22:24] Carrie Reinders: Well, and when I first started working here, that was something as a counseling department, you know, we created our own lessons, but it was also for me to know, okay, as a department and here at my school, the topics you need to cover.

Are like bullying and teasing. Cause those are always hot topics and drug awareness. But trying to figure out, okay, what drug awareness lessons am I going to do in finding some things to relate to that. 

[00:22:56] Angela Kennecke: There's not a lot out there for elementary school. You know, there's, there isn't, there isn't.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot for middle school, high school. That's easy to find. But yeah, we did a lot of research as we were developing this prevention curriculum. And we, couldn't find a lot. There's a few here and there, but, but not many, so, yeah.

[00:23:14] Carrie Reinders: Yeah. Well, and even the curriculum that I used in the early two thousands, here's looking at you.

2000, I remember get the training on it. I still have some of the information, but I don't even know if it's in publication anymore, so if I needed more things, it's probably not available. 

[00:23:31] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, well, we're so grateful that you've taught it to your students and I'm so grateful that I got to talk to the students.

I told them yeah, a little bit about Emily and heard their own stories, which was really eye-opening for me. And yeah, I just, I did really appreciate them sharing some of the things they're dealing with right now, which tells me that prevention is really essential. So important. 

[00:23:55] Carrie Reinders: It is. You know, It is.

Yeah. And we thank you so much for zooming with them. They were super excited to see you to know, okay, this is the creator, of the curriculum and how it was very personable to you as well. 

[00:24:10] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, it is very personal. I'm just lucky so many experts have come alongside me to help. Design it cuz obviously I'm not a school counselor like you or a teacher.

And we've had help from folks like that and from doctors and other professionals in the addiction medicine field. And just really it's been. Quite the labor of love though for, I think for all of us, just creating something from the ground up, and then testing it now and getting the feedback from the kids and counselors like you Yeah.

Has been really cool. Very, very cool. Yeah.

[00:24:40] Carrie Reinders: Yeah. They really enjoyed it, so thank you for letting us pilot it. 

[00:24:44] Angela Kennecke: Well, thank you and I look forward to hearing more next year when you have all the lessons for elementary school. So thank you so much. 

[00:24:50] Carrie Reinders: Yeah, well thank you.

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[00:24:51] Angela Kennecke: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Grieving Out Loud. If you're interested in learning more about our Emily's Hope Prevention education curriculum, or wanna check out other podcast episodes, head over to our website, Emily's Hope dot charity. We'd love it if you could take a moment to leave us a positive review or even share this episode with your friends and family.

Our goal is to make a real impact and save lives. And with your support, we can do just that. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories and helpful resources in the future. Until then, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Anna Fey

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