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[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: Welcome to Grieving Out Loud. On this episode, we'll explore the depths of grief and journey to healing. I'm your host, Angela Kennecke, and today we have a truly inspiring guest joining us, Eric Hodgdon suffered the unimaginable pain of losing his beloved daughter Zoe to suicide at the age of 15. .

[00:00:24] Eric Hodgdon: When the ER doctor told me that he did everything he could, but he couldn't bring her back, and even if he did, she'd be brain dead. I just said, oh, no. And he just turned around and said, call time 11:25 PM. What do you do? What do you do in that moment, Angela? You know, you can't fix anything at that point. You can't reverse. An hour earlier I was talking to her and an hour later there's nothing. 

[00:00:48] Angela Kennecke:  Eric's grief was all consuming, shattering his world and leaving him unable to eat, sleep, or find relief from the phantom pains that haunted him.

But as time passed, he found the strength within to confront his grief head on and live beyond his loss. As an author, coach, and TEDx speaker, Eric now helps others going through a difficult loss. 

[00:01:14] Eric Hodgdon: We are all the same. It doesn't matter what we do for work. It doesn't matter how much money we have in the bank. It doesn't matter what our socioeconomic status is. We're human. And we all will experience the loss of a loved one.

[00:01:25] Angela Kennecke: Join us as we delve into his remarkable story of resilience, discussing practical tips and strategies to overcome grief regardless of its form.

Whether you've experienced the loss of a loved one, a marriage, a job, or any other profound loss, Eric's words will resonate and hopefully offer peace. This is grieving out loud. Let's begin.

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[00:01:59] Angela Kennecke: Eric, first of all, welcome to the podcast. I am so grateful that you're joining me today. 

[00:02:04] Eric Hodgdon: Thank you, Angela. I'm really honored to be here speaking with you about this very important topic, so thank you. 

[00:02:09] Angela Kennecke: I'm so sorry that we come together as parents who've lost children and both whom died in a rather stigmatized way. It's a very difficult thing to accept, but I wanna just dive right into your story. And your daughter, Zoi, who was 15 when she died. 

[00:02:26] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. Zoi was a wallflower. Just salt of the earth, old soul. Beautiful child. Just was curious, wanted deep connections with others, and around the age of 12 to 13, Things began to shift. She was entering those tween years and I think that she started to see more of what you know, the innocence being lost and the realities of, our world kind of coming into view. And I think that it scared her in a lot of ways. 

And so she, like other kids, started to struggle with identity. Not so much gender identity, but more or less just, you know, who is she? Why am I here? What's my purpose for being here? And it caused some. Challenges internally with Zoi, and for the most part, she kept quiet about it. You know, not, I wouldn't say depressed, just quiet. Her artwork, she was very much into art and music, and those were some outlets for her.

And I'm very grateful that she's been able to have some of her voice and music written and actually recorded. And I'm just so grateful for that because I get to hear her voice whenever I'm in the mood to listen to. And that's quite often. But

Zoi was struggling for a while. She had entered some adolescent psychiatric units for some counseling and just to kind of get herself back on her feet

[00:03:47] Angela Kennecke: had she been diagnosed with. A condition 

[00:03:50] Eric Hodgdon: no, I think that the way the doctors were talking was that it was more of an episodic type of situation, that there were some struggles just in general with her age with communications, with other family members that were strained at the time. And it was something that she was just working through and.

I think at that age, when you're 15 years old, you're not thinking about the long term future. You're thinking about the next hour ahead of you, if at most. Mm-hmm. And so I think that she was just maybe placing some of the blame on herself. It's that puzzle you can't complete. You can maybe put some pieces together, but you're never gonna have the full picture as to what was really going on.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:04:31] Angela Kennecke: Amidst Zoe's ongoing battle with mental health issues, she was able to come home and visit her dad for a weekend. Eric eagerly anticipated the visit, envisioning it as a time filled with joy and connection. However, little did he know that this seemingly ordinary weekend would eventually unfold into the most devastating day of his life.

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[00:05:04] Eric Hodgdon: she was upstairs listening to some music playing her ukulele, and she was applying this really cool henna tattoo on her hand. And I asked her if she wanted to hang out with some friends, and she's like, I don't have any friends dad. I'm like, okay. I, I would beg to differ, but okay, no worries. What do you wanna do then? Do you wanna make some food? She's like, yeah, let's do that. And so we made some steak and kale chips. Those were her favorites. And so afterwards we were cleaning up. She said, dad, I'm gonna go to bed. I'm kind of tired. And I said, okay, pumpkins, I love you. And she said, I love you too. Dad 

And I went back to my computer to do some work. I came back upstairs a little while later and I opened her bedroom door and I noticed she wasn't in her bed. And she was in her closet. And I had to call 9 1 1. 

The next 45 minutes are vivid, but a blur at the same time. And when the ER doctor told me that he did everything he could, but he couldn't bring her back, and even if he did, she'd be brain dead. I just said, oh, no. And he just turned around and said, call time 11:25 PM. What do you do? What do you do in that moment, Angela? You know, you can't fix anything at that point. You can't reverse. An hour earlier I was talking to her and an hour later there's nothing.  

[00:06:24] Angela Kennecke: rug gets pulled out from under you. It's like the whole world suddenly is turned upside down. It's like nothing you ever knew. Will ever be the same again. I don't wish this experience on anybody, the loss of a child, whether it be, like in my daughter's case to fentanyl poisoning where she was using a drug she should not have been using, or in your daughter's case to suicide.

I don't wish that on any soul in the world. 

[00:06:47] Eric Hodgdon: Right. 

[00:06:47] Angela Kennecke: But you will not know until you've experienced that moment where you lose your child. What that feels like. And I'm sure it varies from person to person a little bit. Mm-hmm. But, It's the shock, it's the devastation, it's the having to grapple with reality.

[00:07:03] Eric Hodgdon: Right? And that's, I think, very difficult for people to, try to make sense of what just happened. because it doesn't feel real. It's so unbelievably unreal that it, and surreal that the reality of the situation is blurred by the emotions that you're feeling and the tremendous sense of loss, anger, frustration, any other emotion that you're feeling in that?

And I can imagine for you, Angela, with going through the same. Similar set of emotions. Obviously it's your own unique experience of losing your daughter. But when you were faced with that same situation, it feels like you're just standing in a crater 

[00:07:45] Angela Kennecke: that you can never climb out of. You know, that is the thing. It feels like your whole world has just sort of crumbled around you.

[00:07:52] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:52] Angela Kennecke: You feel as you should keep going on. For me, it was my other children. 

[00:07:56] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:57] Angela Kennecke: My husband, those kinds of things, but 

[00:07:58] Eric Hodgdon: yes. 

[00:07:59] Angela Kennecke: I didn't want to. Right. You know, you don't want to. 

[00:08:02] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely. 

You know what's interesting is that that week afterwards, my house was filled with all of Zoi's friends. 

[00:08:09] Angela Kennecke: And she said she didn't have any. 

[00:08:10] Eric Hodgdon: Right. Yeah, I know. 

[00:08:11] Angela Kennecke: So she wasn't thinking clearly. Right. So her mind was not, 

[00:08:14] Eric Hodgdon: yeah, I have a very small house and maybe 1100 square feet at the time, and two bedrooms, you know, just a very small little house. But there was 40 people in that household and it didn't feel like there was enough of them there. They stayed over the entire week.

I had a den and there were sleeping bags everywhere. I didn't care how late they stayed up. I didn't care how much noise they made. It just felt like Zoi, that her energy was there because collectively all of her friends reminded me of her in some way, and she impacted them so much and she gave them hope and she gave them so much of herself.

And a good soul and just a good person that I think that's how we all felt reconnected to Zoi in that moment, and it helped all of us. that was the key for me to move forward in those early days and weeks after losing her.

And 

[00:09:08] Angela Kennecke: so you tried to explain to somebody who's never lost a child recently. Who told me it was time to move on 

[00:09:14] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm. 

[00:09:14] Angela Kennecke: That someone that she knew had lost a child and had moved on. 

[00:09:17] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:17] Angela Kennecke: And I, I just kind of said, you know, you never really move on. Right. You can move forward though. Yes. Her response was, it's the same thing, but I have to argue that it's not that we do.

You have moved forward beautifully. I mean, I watched your TEDx talk. I was very moved by, it started to cry.

[00:09:33] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:34] Angela Kennecke: I just think. Some of the things you're doing and, our beliefs, I think our mindsets are very similar in the fact that you have to reclaim a purpose in your life. It may not be the same purpose that you had before this happened.

[00:09:46] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely. 

[00:09:46] Angela Kennecke: But you have to go on, you can't just survive each day. 

[00:09:50] Eric Hodgdon: Hmm.

[00:09:50] Angela Kennecke: Right. We're still here. We're still here for a reason. Yes. I believe. 

[00:09:54] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. You're absolutely right. And I, appreciate you calling that out, Angela, in terms of having some similar experiences in. Not just surviving, but getting back up and eventually living beyond the loss.

I feel like in, when we are able to move past that survival mode, because survival mode is meant to be temporary. It's not meant to be something that carries us till the end of our days. Cuz that's a lot. That's a, that's an abyss of itself. 

[00:10:24] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I might have to live another 20 or 30 years. 

[00:10:29] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:10:29] Angela Kennecke: We're thinking that in my head. 

[00:10:30] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah. 

[00:10:30] Angela Kennecke: After I lost my daughter, I thought, how am I ever gonna do that? 

[00:10:34] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah. 

[00:10:34] Angela Kennecke: So I think those are the early initial stages of loss where you do feel like it is just about survival and you don't know how. How could you even laugh again or right. Face that many years without the person, the child that you loved. 

[00:10:48] Eric Hodgdon: And that can be overwhelming. 

[00:10:50] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, 

[00:10:50] Eric Hodgdon: that can be something that can stop you in your tracks. Those are those moments when you wake up in the middle of the night and that flashes in your head and you're just jolted awake and your heart starts racing. it could be an emotional response that you're having right then too. but I think that's also your, Brain and your mind trying to reconnect with some sort of purpose to carry on. And it's a healing element that your brain goes through. But I think as time goes by and it's not just time, cuz time isn't the driver of your healing, it's a companion. 

But I believe that with time and action and taking those deep breaths and knowing that you're gonna get through those moments where the grief is just overwhelming you, it's going to pass. It has passed previously, it's going to pass again. And when you have that moment happen again in the future, it's also going to pass.

It may not feel like it. Right then and there. But it is acknowledging that you're going through a process. It's not something to your point about just, you know, Why aren't you over this yet? You know, can't you just move on? It takes that time, does actions and that energy that is needed for this to carry you forward, that becomes the vehicle to help you through this. 

[00:12:09] Angela Kennecke: After the early days 

[00:12:10] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm. 

[00:12:11] Angela Kennecke: After the first few weeks or months after Zoi died, which was in 2014, is that right?

[00:12:16] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. Yes. 

[00:12:17] Angela Kennecke: So you're a little bit ahead of me in this grief journey and after some time had passed. What was going on with you 

[00:12:24] Eric Hodgdon: Hmm. 

[00:12:25] Angela Kennecke: And what helped you the most? 

[00:12:27] Eric Hodgdon: Where I was, was I had gone through a divorce about seven years prior to that, and in my mind, I almost felt as if the divorce were harder than losing Zoi, only because I didn't have any coping skills when I was going through my divorce.

It was the first major setback in my life where I just was not sure how to get back up from that. And through years of therapy, I, you know, experienced the loss of my daughter, and I had tools now to cope with it. I could recognize what I was going through, however, It doesn't mean that it still wasn't impacting me. So I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. I had phantom pains in my body that I couldn't explain where they came from. That lasted for months at a time. One would disappear, another one would show up. I had very intrusive thoughts about where Zoi was or what my life was gonna be like moving forward.

But on the flip side, on the positive side, I was connecting with Zoi's friends. I was finding connection with other family members and new people that I was meeting who were also on this journey. I was finding, as I call them, gifts along the way. Maybe there were signs from Zoi. Maybe it was a dream, maybe it was a little trinket or something that I would find to be like, okay, that's, it's gotta be Zoi showing up and saying, hi, dad. It's all good. 

And so the first few months of the journey were all about reconnecting hopefully to myself and to the world around me. But it was also understanding that of what matters most in this world that was became ultra clear, like this jolted me into this new reality of, okay, well my IT career. That's not important. That's a job. That's a means to an end, right? 

[00:14:22] Angela Kennecke: Yeah.

[00:14:22] Eric Hodgdon: But what matters most is family, relationships, love, and that's something that can't be bought. You can't go to work for that. It's just something that is part of the human experience and it's beautiful. That's what matters most.

[00:14:37] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, I do believe that's what loss can teach us. 

[00:14:39] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:40] Angela Kennecke: I certainly worked very hard on my career as a broadcast journalist 

[00:14:44] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:14:44] Angela Kennecke: For many, many years. And yes, not that it didn't have any importance to me, but it certainly wasn't the most important thing. I also feel like you get to a certain age and you start to realize you need to foster and build relationships. That that's what's important kind of with that second half of your life. Right. 

[00:15:02] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely. 

[00:15:03] Angela Kennecke: And I think loss can just speed that up. 

[00:15:05] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:05] Angela Kennecke: Maybe that process up. But yeah, I had very, similar thoughts and experiences where Those thoughts are so intrusive at first. 

[00:15:13] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:14] Angela Kennecke: And I didn't have the physical pain the way you did, how kind of the emotional pain manifesting itself physically. 

[00:15:19] Eric Hodgdon: Right. 

[00:15:20] Angela Kennecke: But I had what I felt like was brain damage. Mm-hmm. I mean, like, I couldn't remember things. 

[00:15:24] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:15:24] Angela Kennecke: I mean, I felt like I had a brain injury.

Yes. And that was so hard, especially cuz my job required me to be, quick thinking. Right. And so I struggled with that a little bit, but I also think the signs you're talking about 

[00:15:34] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm. 

[00:15:35] Angela Kennecke: I have not talked to any parent. Or even anybody who's lost anyone very, very close to them who hasn't received signs.

[00:15:41] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:41] Angela Kennecke: And you could arguably say they were coincidences. You could explain them away in some way, but I had a grief counselor tell me once, what does it hurt? 

[00:15:49] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:50] Angela Kennecke: I mean, believe that they are signs, and if that makes your soul feel good,

[00:15:54] Eric Hodgdon: yes. 

[00:15:55] Angela Kennecke: Then. Go with that. And I do think , as I progressed on this journey, that sometimes I would say, well, that I could probably explain that away and why, 

[00:16:03] Eric Hodgdon: right.

[00:16:03] Angela Kennecke: I don't need to do that. You know, and some have been like, hit me over the head, like, how can I explain that away, you know? 

[00:16:09] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah. But I had a very similar experience with that. Angela, if it's okay if I share that with you? 

[00:16:13] Angela Kennecke: Sure, of course. Please do. 

[00:16:14] Eric Hodgdon: It was about 15 months after Zoi had died and I was at my first trade show for the company. I was working fifth, it was out in LA and I'd always wanted to get out to la. I'd never been out there before and the trade show lasted about a week. I was responsible being the IT guy to stay and make sure that all of the trade, so Booth and all the technology, everything that was packaged up, got sent back. Okay. And the lead of our group, Left early and left me the rental car that he had rented in case they needed to do any errands and they didn't. And so it was my task to bring the rental car back the next day. 

First I was a little bit frustrated, but then I'm like, wait a minute. I have a gassed up Jeep in LA and I don't have to pay for it. I'm gonna go travel around and see what I can see. 

And so I found myself at Santa Monica Beach, and I don't know if you've ever been there. 

[00:17:01] Angela Kennecke: Sure

[00:17:02] Eric Hodgdon: or not. It's a beautiful beach. Yeah. Yeah. It's very wide, but it's also very deep in terms of from the roadway to get to the water, you have to walk a while, and I had made a pact with Zoi after she had died that any trip that I took, I was gonna find a rock at that location and bring it back and put it in her room, set it on a shelf in her room, and tell her little story about where the rock was found.

And so this was no different. And this was the first business trip that I had taken. And so that collection of rocks was very small at the time, but I started to walk along the beach. Well, here's the problem. There's no rocks on Santa Monica beach. It's mostly sand. And, there's no shells. There's a little bit of shells. There's tiny little clamshells. But I was walking about five minutes in one direction and I finally found a small rock. I'm like, okay. It didn't look great. It wasn't anything special. I just, it, it was a rock. And so I put it in my pocket and I zig-zagged another direction for another five minutes, and I found another rock. This was a little bit long, thin knife like rock, and I made my way down to the water. I wanted to put my feet in the Pacific, and so I found two more rocks. I put them in my pocket and I get down to the water. And this was late May, early June, where you've got that may rain June gloom, right at the coast where it's overcast. And it was exactly the way it was that day. There was nobody there on the beach. There was one person way down, probably about a half a mile down, sitting in a chair just facing the water. Probably some celebrity, but I didn't wanna bother them anyway. And so I just sat there and I thought, oh my gosh.

Zoi was a big red hot Chili Peppers fan. They were from Santa Monica. She would absolutely love to be here. And I said that to her, Zoi, you would absolutely love it here. I wish you were here. And I stayed there for probably another 15 minutes or so. Took some pictures of just the beach area. went back to my went back to the hotel, and I take the rocks outta my pocket. And I put them on the desk and I moved two of them and I sat down on the bed and started crying because they spelled her name. Oh. And I am not that creative, Angela. I just burst out like, okay. What that told me was that she was there with me and just the vastness of that beach, the distance I had to walk to find those four rocks. And her showing up like that to say, dad, I am there. It's okay. 

I still have those rocks. They're in my bedroom. They're on a shelf and I look at them every morning and I'm just like, she is always here with me. , 

[00:19:32] Angela Kennecke: that's incredible. that's an incredible story and I love it. 

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If you head over to our podcast page on our website, Emily's Hope dot charity, you'll be able to see a picture of the rocks that spells Zoe. It's such a powerful visual symbol of love that will truly touch your heart. While you're there, be sure to dive into the resources we've gathered for those navigating grief. Are facing challenges with substance use and our website always has the latest news stories on these topics. 

You can stay in the know and even discover ways to get involved in our mission. Together we can create positive change.

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[00:20:22] Angela Kennecke: And. I also think that our daughters are with us. 

[00:20:25] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:25] Angela Kennecke: They're in our hearts, right? Yes. So where we go, they were a part of us and 

[00:20:29] Eric Hodgdon: how do you, how do you connect with Emily today? 

[00:20:32] Angela Kennecke: I talk to her. 

[00:20:33] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:33] Angela Kennecke: I do a lot of work in her name, especially with her art. We use her art in a lot of ways, and I feel very connected to her that way. And there are songs and other things, you know, where I feel very connected to her. I just have to. Have my time, you know?

[00:20:47] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:47] Angela Kennecke: To be connected with her, because I think we can all get really busy, right? 

[00:20:50] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:20:50] Angela Kennecke: It's funny how , like at first you kind of keep life at bay for a little while 

[00:20:54] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm.

[00:20:54] Angela Kennecke: After that loss and then life starts Intru, even though I'm working on a charity having to do with how she died

[00:21:00] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm.

[00:21:01] Angela Kennecke: And trying to save other people. 

[00:21:02] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:21:02] Angela Kennecke: I'm still really busy with other people, right? 

[00:21:05] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:21:05] Angela Kennecke: So, yeah. Yeah. And I know you wrote a book and you called it. A Sherpa named Zoi. 

[00:21:12] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:21:12] Angela Kennecke: So why did you name it that?

[00:21:14] Eric Hodgdon: That's a really great question. I struggled with that for the longest time when I was writing. I wanted to share the experience of going through grief. I had so many stories of Zoi and my experience in those leading up to Zoi passing and then afterwards moving through those difficult moments like the physical, like you're talking, the emotional, the questions that you ask. All of that.

And every single time that I had an experience where I felt like I was reconnected to Zoi in a different way. Cuz I believed I was actually gonna be able to talk to Zoi, like you and I are talking right here. And when that silence is so deafening that you don't have that connection any longer you have to guide yourself. No one else is coming to carry you on this journey. They might walk with you on the journey, but they can't do the work. They can't take the time they take those actions. And so I realized that Zoi had been my guide. 

Not only while she was here, but afterwards it was potentially those signs. It was potentially some meditations that I had where she would show up and be very clear about how she's doing. Okay, I'm, I'm good, dad. I'm in the best place. There's no pain, there's no time here. it was also just in the people that I've met that I wouldn't have met had. She'd still been here. You and I probably wouldn't be talking if she was still here. And so I've just met so many wonderful people and found new relationships. I feel like , these are the gifts that we're left behind and any journey that we take, We find things along the way that help us get to where we want to go. And I realize that grief is not a destination. It is a journey, and you're gonna be on that journey until you take your last breath.

But there are some really good things that happen on this journey that help you heal and. The lessons that you can learn about yourself and how to be with other people and how to help other people are just so powerful. And that's what I wanted to put in the book. I wanted to show people that this is the worst thing that you're ever gonna have to probably deal with in life, whether it's a child or a sibling, or a parent or a friend. Anything, you think you're prepared for loss, but you're really not because. Of everything that goes along with it that you can't quantify or just wrap up into a single statement. 

It well, you can't. It sucks. Grief sucks. So it suck. It sucks.

[00:23:50] Angela Kennecke: I'm with you on that. It sucks. 

[00:23:51] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah, 

[00:23:52] Angela Kennecke: yeah, 

[00:23:52] Eric Hodgdon: yeah.

[00:23:52] Angela Kennecke: I have to say though, when you were talking about these gifts that come from grief, that come from loss. 

[00:23:57] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:23:58] Angela Kennecke: It was so interesting to me. I was taking part in a grief group that we started , and it's mostly mothers right now , for people who've lost someone to overdose or fentanyl poisoning, and the counselor who was leading it asked us to write about what has changed within us, what has changed externally.

[00:24:15] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:15] Angela Kennecke: And almost everything I wrote was positive. I love that. And then I just thought, well, it's good, but it's also horrible to think that, well, I just, I would take her back in a second, right? 

[00:24:25] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:25] Angela Kennecke: I mean but there are positive things if you allow it. Yes. If you let it. 

[00:24:29] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:24:30] Angela Kennecke: That can come out of loss.

[00:24:31] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely. I imagine when you are reconnected with Emily you're having a conversation with her about everything that you've experienced since the day she left this earth, this realm. And what you're gonna be able to share with her and what she's gonna be able to share with you. And it's gonna be such a powerful reunion.

And I feel the same way that Zoi and I when I sit down, Zoi, let me tell you where I've gone and who I've seen, who I've met and what I've learned on this journey of. Not only getting through this for myself, but helping other people to navigate this just like you're doing with those other mothers who have lost a child to an overdose.

And I just feel like that is something that we as humans are here to do, is to make our fellow humans better in some way on their journey, or to help them in some way on their journey. Even if it's the smallest little thing, Angela, that helps somebody to either to get unstuck, to move forward, or to even take a bigger step forward that they didn't think they could take.

Well, geez, if Angela can do it, so can I, you know, if Eric can get back up help other people who are struggling with a loss of a child to suicide. Maybe I can get back up and find a way to carry on too. And that's, that's my hope. And that sounds like that's the hope of, your mission as well.

[00:25:55] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, certainly. Certainly. Mm-hmm. And just to try to prevent it. From happening to other people, but 

[00:25:59] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm. 

[00:25:59] Angela Kennecke: One question I have when it comes to death by suicide, think a lot about, these stigmatized deaths as I've talked about, fentanyl poisoning, overdose suicide. Also the guilt many parents feel like would've, could've, should've, or 

[00:26:14] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm.

[00:26:14] Angela Kennecke: You know, just the idea that we could've somehow controlled the situation. And I think that can be especially prevalent with suicide, so. 

[00:26:21] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:22] Angela Kennecke: Did you ever have any of those feelings? And then how did you cope? How did you deal with them?

[00:26:26] Eric Hodgdon: a really good question. I wish I could have pulled Zoe back from the brink.

I wish I would've known more about what was really going on inside of her mind at the time. I am always about finding solutions to problems and I believe Zoe found a solution to what she was feeling. 

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[00:26:46] Eric Hodgdon: And. While I know that that maybe brought her peace. It didn't bring so much peace to our family and her friends.

But in the journey that we've taken since then, we've found that peace and so it's a very unique situation to navigate. And whether you're trying to do some prevention for people taking their lives or post prevention when it's happened and how you help somebody reconnect with themselves and life to carry on and to keep going, 

[00:27:19] Angela Kennecke: I think you're just offering that glimmer of peace.

[00:27:21] Eric Hodgdon: Mm-hmm. 

[00:27:22] Angela Kennecke: If someone who's listening to this podcast thinks. How will I ever get to that point where I can be at peace with this? Right. You know? 

[00:27:29] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah. And I think a lot of people are, I, they may hear this and be like, oh, I can't get there. I'm, are you kidding me? I'm, I just lost this person. There's absolutely no, no way I'm ever gonna feel better again.

There's no way that I'm ever going to be the same again. And you know, I'm gonna say to that is that you're absolutely right. You're never gonna be the same again. You can actually become stronger. Because of this, any situation that we have in life, it doesn't matter if we've lost a loved one, doesn't matter if we've lost a job, doesn't matter if we've lost a relationship. What happens and what has happened in the past can be some momentum and some fuel for you to find a way to get back up and move forward. In any of these situations, it may just be more difficult with the loss of a loved one because there's probably more emotions associated with that.

[00:28:16] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:16] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah, 

[00:28:16] Angela Kennecke: and I think giving yourself some grace, being kind to yourself and giving yourself time. It's not like mm-hmm. This happened for you overnight, you know? 

[00:28:24] Eric Hodgdon: No, no. If you set a timeline, you're going to be disappointed when you hit that six month mark or that three month mark, and you're not feeling the way you think you should be feeling. You're absolutely right, Angela. You've gotta give yourself some grace to figure it out. Some people can heal maybe sooner, but that's, that's their journey. Your journey is yours, and it's okay to take as much time as you need. To figure out what you need to get back up and to keep going at your level. , even though I went through a divorce, it took me three years to really get back to a place of feeling. Okay. 

After I lost Zoi, I would say it was a good two years before I really started to feel like I got my feet beneath me to get back up. I had moments when things were. Briefly, okay. Where I didn't feel immense pain and sadness and anger or guilt or whatever the emotion I was feeling, but it took a while for that to become more consistent to where I had those consistent, better days, and now it was off to the races because I knew what I needed to do in order to then live and reconnect with myself to live beyond the loss, to honor Zoe and myself at the same time, because it's okay to do that.

[00:29:41] Angela Kennecke: I love that. To live beyond the loss and to honor, to honor yourself, but still honor your daughter, but not to get stuck or trapped in 

[00:29:48] Eric Hodgdon: Exactly. 

[00:29:49] Angela Kennecke: Really. Yeah.

[00:29:50] Eric Hodgdon: Yeah. 

[00:29:50] Angela Kennecke: And it's a hard road to navigate, you know?

[00:29:52] Eric Hodgdon: It is. 

[00:29:52] Angela Kennecke: It's just, 

[00:29:53] Eric Hodgdon: it is. 

[00:29:53] Angela Kennecke: Time is a companion. I also like when you said that that was something that I really resonates with me that time is not a healer.

[00:30:00] Eric Hodgdon: Right. 

[00:30:00] Angela Kennecke: It is a companion 

[00:30:01] Eric Hodgdon: mm-hmm. 

[00:30:01] Angela Kennecke: On this journey. 

[00:30:03] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. And I think if you can couple time with taking some action. Doesn't have to be anything major. Maybe it's you getting up in the morning, putting your feet on the ground. Deciding to do something to honor your loved one for yourself, whether that's going for a walk at the beach or walk at the park, maybe hanging out with a friend, taking care of yourself, going to a yoga cla. It doesn't matter what you choose to do. Or picking up a journal and writing three things that you're grateful for that day. Three things or one thing that you forgive yourself for, and accepting what is. Can help kind of dump off that feeling of being stuck and to help you move forward. Yeah. 

[00:30:45] Angela Kennecke: So is this your life's work now? 

[00:30:47] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:30:47] Angela Kennecke: I mean, I know you've written a book, you've done the TEDx talk. Are you working with people who grieve? Is this what you're doing? 

[00:30:52] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. And, and I appreciate that question. I was working with one of my mentors a few months ago, and initially I wanted to do some speaking and coaching. on grief, and I was fortunate to have connected with Cheryl Sandberg a few years ago through Option B. And we've had a few conversations and I felt like, okay, she had lost her husband, Dave. They were in vacation in Cancun, and she had written this wonderful book called Option B and she had created this community on Facebook called the same thing.

And It almost like it confirmed that this was my journey when it was approaching Mother's Day, and I just went on the group and I did a live video for two minutes saying exactly just what I said a few minutes ago in terms of you know, get up in the morning. It's okay to do something for yourself. If you're missing your mom or mother figure, or you're a mom that is missing a child. Get up, put your feet on the ground. Go and do something that honors your loved one today because it's okay to do that. 

and Cheryl reached out and said, Hey, I'd love to talk about this on some interviews and some other things. Is it okay if I do that? Sure. 

[00:32:00] Angela Kennecke: You're not gonna tell Cheryl Sandberg 

[00:32:01] Eric Hodgdon: No, no, no. But but what it, what it showed me, you're right. But what it showed me, Angela, was that we are all the same. It doesn't matter what we do for work. It doesn't matter how much money we have in the bank. It doesn't matter what our socioeconomic status is. We're human. And we all will experience the loss of a loved one. And it just reinforced that this work is so very power. It's needed. Cheryl Sandberg, who has as much resources as she possibly needs, she was already working with Adam Grant, who's a doctor. They had already written the book and so she had already gone through that. But this particular Mother's day. Just one little thing that I said was able to help her navigate that Mother's day. 

And so it's like, okay, I am on a mission now to help people get up and live beyond the loss so that they can get reconnected to their lives and honor themselves and their loved ones at the same time 

[00:32:52] Angela Kennecke: yeah. Our culture does a really poor job of allowing. Us to be open about our feelings don't talk about it. Move on, go back to work, all those kinds of things. 

[00:33:00] Eric Hodgdon: Oh, yeah. A few months after Zoe died and I was at the cemetery visiting her resting place, and I went often and there was a woman who was an older woman walking towards me, and I think she was there visiting a resting place of somebody that she knew and she stopped. She said, I'm so sorry for your loss. I said, thank you. And she's like, who is this? I said, unfortunately, it's my daughter. She's like, oh, I'm so sorry. What happened? Do you mind me asking? I said, unfortunately, she took her life, and she's like, oh, I'm so sorry, but you're young. You can have more kids. 

[00:33:31] Angela Kennecke: number one thing not to say right, is someone who's lost a child. 

[00:33:34] Eric Hodgdon: Right? Right. And, I imagined Zoe standing in front of me, just kinda looking at me like, did she just, did she just say that? You know, and, and so I, I didn't get angry with her. I think she recognized that what she had said was probably not the greatest thing to say, and she just, okay, well have a good night. And she kind of carried on and went back to her car and left and I just kind of sat there and chuckled for a little bit. we all process and deal with grief differently. I don't know anything about her past or her history or how she's dealt with loss in the past, but it is a very challenging. Situation to go through and there's no one right way to do it. It's the way that works for you. 

[00:34:12] Angela Kennecke: Right. And if you allow it, it can make you stronger. 

[00:34:15] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely.

[00:34:16] Angela Kennecke: And it can make you a better person. 

[00:34:17] Eric Hodgdon: Yes. 

[00:34:17] Angela Kennecke: And it can make you more compassionate and all of these things if you allow it.

[00:34:20] Eric Hodgdon: Absolutely. A hundred percent.

[00:34:22] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Well I have just so much enjoyed this conversation. Eric, I just wanna the same tell you again, I wish I would've been able to meet Zoi cuz she sounds amazing. And I am so sorry for your loss. And thank you. I am so grateful for all the work that you're doing.

[00:34:36] Eric Hodgdon: Thank you so much. I'm so sorry for your loss as well. I hope that Emily is just flourishing where she is right now, and it sounds like she is. and I just appreciative to be able to, to share Zoi with your listeners and I hope that this messaging helps them in some way to, get unstuck or to move forward. Just one little step. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Angela. 

[00:34:59] Angela Kennecke: Thank you. 

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[00:34:59] Angela Kennecke: Before we wrap up, be sure to check out the show notes for this episode while you'll find links to Eric's inspiring TEDx talk and information about his book. They offer resources for those seeking help on their own healing journeys. 

Thank you for joining us today on Grieving Out Loud. We do appreciate your support.

Please consider giving this podcast a positive review and sharing it with others. Also, make sure to tune in next week as we sit down with a licensed professional counselor working in one of the nation's poorest areas ravaged by the drug epidemic. Her profound insights shed light on the human spirit's, resilience in the face of adversity.

It's an interview you won't wanna miss. Once again, thank you for listening, and until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. 

This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Anna Fey

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