(MUSIC UP!) 

[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: . The thing about addiction, it doesn't discriminate. It can affect anyone from any walk of life. Doesn't matter if you're rich, poor, young, or old, or what kind of job you have. Take Sonya Kahlon for example. She was a successful orthodontist who built a thriving seven location orthodontic group. No one knew that Sonya struggled with alcohol addiction.

Every day following her long 16 hour work shifts, she would turn to drinking.

[00:00:31] Sonia Kahlon: It was super busy. We had, several orthodontists working for us. At some point, I wasn't even seeing patients anymore, but the stress level of running a business. it's like nothing compared to being an orthodontist. And so 

I was using it for anxiety and then it was sort of having the opposite effect by the time I would wake up in the morning. So I was a disaster.

 There's a voice that tells you. that something's not right, like in your body.  but every time I came close to kind of being like, maybe I should stop, I'd be, but, but you're so high functioning, what are you gonna do? Like, are you gonna, come home and exercise, meditate, journal, like, I don't have time for that, but I have time for a bottle of wine. 

[00:01:11] Angela Kennecke: But Sonya did eventually take time to focus on her sobriety, and now this highly motivated woman is channeling her experience into a new business that provides online small group recovery meetings. Join us on this episode as Sonya opens up about her struggle, how she overcame it and her mission to help others do the same.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:01:32] Angela Kennecke: I'm Angela Kennecke your host of Grieving Out Loud. The reason I started this podcast and my charity, Emily's Hope, is because of the heartbreaking loss I experienced when my 21 year old daughter Emily died from Fentanyl poisoning. That devastating loss changed my life forever. But instead of allowing the pain to consume me, I decided to take action.

That's why we're here today to help reduce the stigma surrounding substance use disorder and bring awareness to this important issue. 

 (MUSIC UP!) Welcome so much to grieving out loud. It's a pleasure to have you, and I can't wait to learn more about your story. 

[00:02:11] Sonia Kahlon: Thank you for having me, Angela. 

[00:02:13] Angela Kennecke: let's start at the beginning. I was doing a little research on you. I see. We're a very successful orthodontist. That's a big job. There's a lot of demand for orthodontists. It's good money, all of those things. Tell me a little bit about how you went into becoming an orthodontist. 

[00:02:28] Sonia Kahlon: So I'm, a child of Indian immigrants from Canada and there's like, , three options for what you're allowed to do. It's a dentist, doctor, and lawyer was sort of like at the lower end of it. And so I. Honestly didn't think about it that much. I just thought, this is what you do and this is what all, my cousins and my parents', friends, children were doing. So just went into it without thinking about it. And to be honest, I didn't love being a dentist. And so I was in dental school and I was like, what? What do I do here? And the dean of students was like, well, you're doing really well. So applied with specialty. And so I did and I was like, this is the one where I least have to. Touch people and the least amount of blood and the least amount of needles, and I was like, this is great.

And I really did. I do love being orthodontist it was a really great career path and so yeah, that's exactly how I picked it. 

[00:03:18] Angela Kennecke: I've heard that about the Indian culture before, that it is very strict with like what children are sort of given the parameters of what they can consider doing. Do you feel if you hadn't grown up under those conditions, you might have gone on a different path.

[00:03:31] Sonia Kahlon: Oh like a hundred percent. Like I was born to a dentist or a doctor, but definitely wasn't a passion. , I can't even go back and wonder what I would've done because it started so early. But luckily, being an orthodontist gave me an opportunity to. Do whatever I wanted, like now being able to help people in sobriety and so I'm real, I'm super grateful for it, so I try not to go back. 

The only thing I think I would like, maybe I would've wanted to be like a journalist , but, you know, I can't even think of it now.

[00:04:01] Angela Kennecke: Well, I am a journalist. That was always my dream, and I do, I love journalism. I love storytelling. It does lend to podcasting and that kind of thing too. So I'm grateful. , I got to live up my dream and be a journalist. It wasn't always easy though, you know, you think you're gonna do whatever it is that you dream of doing, and there's always pitfalls or downsides to anything, right?

[00:04:21] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. It just looks so glamorous, like you're gonna uncover I'm glamor like the next, not glamorous at all. , 

[00:04:27] Angela Kennecke: I can guarantee you not glamorous. Well let's talk about, because you did do sort of a 360 shift. I mean, what you're doing now isn't related to what you started off in life doing. , what brought you to that point?

[00:04:40] Sonia Kahlon: So I got outta school and I started working for a corporate dental practice and was like, this is terrible. Like I went to school for how many years to end up sort of like in this, environment where just like I didn't feel any autonomy, it just wasn't a comfortable environment. So I thought, well, Just opened like a small little practice.

And so I found a building that had already been fit out for a dental office and I was like, okay, well this will be cute. I'll, have a nice little practice. I can set my own hours and I'll be able to buy a house and a car and pay off my student loans. And that was really the goal. I would've been really happy with that. And then Six months later, another office in the same kind of situation came up for sale. It wasn't a running office, but it was built out. And so we bought that.

And then sort of once you do it the second time, you're definitely more aware, like of what you can handle and, and so yeah. And so just got the opportunity to keep doing it over the next several years. And so by the time we were done, so by 2016 we had seven offices, 

it was super busy. We had, several orthodontists working for us. At some point, I wasn't even seeing patients anymore, but the stress level of running a business. it's like nothing compared to being an orthodontist. And so 

I had been drinking, I had started drinking when I was like 15, but I'd been in school for so long, so I was always sort of like binge drinking, studying, binge drinking, studying. And then when I started working and the stress sort of started increasing, that's the only tool I had. And so I started drinking every day in the evenings. 

[00:06:17] Angela Kennecke: What was your drink of choice while you were working and drinking? Anything? 

[00:06:21] Sonia Kahlon: Red wine. 

[00:06:22] Angela Kennecke: So it strikes me, and I've done a couple of podcasts about women and alcohol and different things, and it strikes me that it's very socially acceptable for women to drink wine.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:06:30] Dr. Jessica Mellinger: I think we have views of what someone with an alcohol use problem looks like, and it's not. it's not a woman with a glass of wine, right? Like, that's not the vision that we have in our head of somebody who has an addiction or who has an alcohol addiction or what we call an alcohol use disorder now in, addiction research.

And so it can be easier to overlook perhaps when that one glass of wine turns into two turns, into three, turns into the bottle, turns into a couple of bottles. 

[00:06:57] Angela Kennecke: That was Dr. Jessica Mellinger, a liver doctor at the University of Michigan. She's seeing more young women with liver disease and says for the first time in history, women are drinking as much as men.

[00:07:09] Dr. Jessica Mellinger: all the downsides of, drinking, which could include. Getting liver disease, you know, kind of my area of specialty, you know, cancers, alcohol use is associated with a whole host of cancers.

And then the, kind of associated mental health issues that can happen, along with that, increased depression, increased anxiety, insomnia problems, alcohol has a lot of downsides to it, and so I think. The overall message that, wine is healthy is really starting to be questioned 

[00:07:34] Angela Kennecke: mellinger hopes that by educating women about what moderate drinking really looks like, it will turn this potentially deadly trend around..

[00:07:45] Dr. Jessica Mellinger: A safe level of alcohol for people who don't have an alcohol use problem, who don't have liver disease, who don't have medical issues from alcohol is no more than one drink a day for women or two drinks a day for men. And then that raises the question of what is a drink, right? So, one drink is about four ounces of wine.

So that would fill up really only the bottom, right? 

[00:08:06] Angela Kennecke: Yes. You think about a typical wine glass. And so, if I'm gonna fill up a wine glass, I'll fill it up about halfway full. Which is two servings, right? 

[00:08:14] Dr. Jessica Mellinger: Probably two servings, yeah. 

[00:08:15] Angela Kennecke: Wow. 

[00:08:15] Dr. Jessica Mellinger: And then one shot is one serving, one standard, 12 ounce can of beer is one serving.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:08:21] Angela Kennecke: sonya realized she had a problem when she was downing a whole bottle of wine every night, but still managed to function pretty well. Her work was not impacted by her drinking. Sonya believes that actually may have caused her to battle with substance use disorder longer before seeking help.

[00:08:39] Sonia Kahlon: In the Indian culture, men drink pretty heavily, and so women didn't drink at all. And so I kind of knew the signs, but for me it was like these guys were so low functioning, right? They were like, Getting in, DUIs, they were getting in arguments, they were going to jail. And so I struggled for a long time being like, well, I'm so high functioning.

I built a business, like I built this huge successful business. But I think, you know, I think that there's a voice that tells you. that something's not right, like in your body.  , but every time I came close to kind of being like, maybe I should stop, I'd be, but, but you're so high functioning, what are you gonna do?

Like, are you gonna, come home and exercise, meditate, journal, like, I don't have time for that, but I have time for a bottle of wine. . 

And so I got so lucky that I got an offer to sell the business and it was like an offer, like no one would ever turn down. And I was, by that point I had spiraled, I was sick all the time. I was hungover. All the time mentally had spiraled. Right. Which I always think there's some combination between addiction and mental health and so 

[00:09:47] Angela Kennecke: Sure. 

[00:09:47] Sonia Kahlon: I was using it for anxiety and then it was sort of having the opposite effect by the time I would wake up in the morning. So I was a disaster.

 I just knew that there was more in life than that, so got the offer to. I knew that it was the first time in my life I wouldn't be busy like 16 hours a day. And I thought, what, what am I gonna do with this extra time I'm gonna end up drinking? And so I literally just quit cold Turkey with great difficulty, but I just had a particularly vicious hangover.

One morning I was with a friend of mine who was pregnant and we were at brunch and the waiter was like, do you want a mimosa? And I was like, I don't. I don't, and I think it was the first time I ever turned down a drink in my entire life and something just hit me that day where I was like, I was seeing like black spots.

That's how hungover I was. And I completely blacked out the night before, which was by that point, pretty normal for me to be totally blacked out. But I don't know, it wasn't like a rock bottom 

[00:10:50] Angela Kennecke: so it wasn't anything earth shattering either. It wasn't like something really horrible happened because of your drinking. You just were sick. 

[00:10:56] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. It really was. It was like, I think I had been waiting for something earth shattering to happen. Like I'd come close a couple times to falling down the stairs or, you know, some I didn't drink and drive, so it wasn't that. But it was like, I thought something would happen like that. I would end up having to quit or I'd be forced to quit. And so, That just wasn't happening. And at that point I'm like over a decade into a significant alcohol problem. 

[00:11:24] Angela Kennecke: Did you have any other health problems because of the alcohol, any liver problems or any other issues 

[00:11:30] Sonia Kahlon: no, I feel like like being high functioning in physically and mentally is not necessarily a gift. I always tell people because it's like, let's you get away with it for so much longer. But no, I was pretty, physically, I felt awful, but there were no actual, like there was not a lab test you could run that would say that there was a problem.

[00:11:50] Angela Kennecke: and most people can't just stop, right? Most people can't just quit cold Turkey. So why do you think you could do that? And did it stick? Did it last? 

[00:12:00] Sonia Kahlon: It did. I think that, I had one day, one, that was it. And I did the same thing with cigarettes. 10 years earlier I had done the same thing. And so I just quit. I was sick one day. I think I had pneumonia. I was smoking a cigarette outside and I was like, not doing this anymore. . 

 But I think for me it was just, I don't know. I, I never tried even to go a day without alcohol. I think people kind of like prepare for it for longer. And so I think that there was just this, like I had a reserve of Willpower sort of stored up, right? From not even having tried it ever. And so I was like, I'm just gonna do it. And it was horrible. It was like, I had really bad anxiety. I didn't sleep for a while. It was, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't easy for sure. I don't wanna give the impression it was easy. 

 I don't know if I would say it was full 

[00:12:47] Angela Kennecke: withdrawals. 

[00:12:47] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. 

[00:12:48] Angela Kennecke: Hmm.

[00:12:49] Sonia Kahlon: But I was, yeah, for sure. Jittery. There were definitely, yeah, it was like a whole, it was like, I always explain, it's like being like a turtle without a shell. Like I was so raw for so long after like for months, I was just like everyone could see everything. Like, and I was so sensitive and, yeah. . 

[00:13:07] Angela Kennecke: yeah, that sensitivity part makes sense to me that, you would feel if you come off of a substance that you were totally exposed because obviously substances change, the brain change someone's personality. I mean, everything changes about a person who is using on a regular basis. Right? 

[00:13:23] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. 

[00:13:23] Angela Kennecke: So did you get support in your sobriety? 

[00:13:27] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, at the time I still was working. Um, we had sold the business, but I was still working there. There's like a couple of year period of transition and so , my brother was recovering at the time and had recovered through aa.

 He was a relatively low functioning alcoholic and he had to detox and so he was a great support. But my husband, who was also my business partner was. You know, he's just a very like tough love kind of guy and like there's really no such thing as addiction and this is just something you're gonna have to deal with.

And so when I would mention like, I think I want to go to a meeting, he would say like, you can't, like what if you, what if you see one of your patients? Like you know, And in a sense, I understand the point, but it's anonymous, right? Like we're all in the same boat. I feel like my pathway was just this kind of, I did all the things, like all the things I had wanted to do since I was young. Like I did jewelry making classes, and I took photography classes, and I took coding classes, like trying to figure out like what my passion was in life that had been. Missing I had that I had never found. And so I started volunteering with the incarcerated and formerly incarcerated through a program that teaches entrepreneurship, which is perfect for me.

So when I would go to prison, I would actually be able to talk about my addiction openly. It was the only place I really would feel comfortable talking about it. So yeah, my pathway was just, . I would just like all the things, everything you can think of. I would do, except for actually dealing with the problem.

But, you know, it worked for what it was. I, I felt great. I was making, and I was writing about my addiction. I was making art. I had done a photography certificate, so I was making art about it. My art was getting into galleries, so I felt connected to recovery even though, not in a formal way, but yeah, that was sort of my pathway.

[00:15:20] Angela Kennecke: And did you ever relapse? 

[00:15:22] Sonia Kahlon: No. The closest I came was, so I had a really good five years, right? Like, I did all the things for five years and had a good marriage and was splitting time between New York City and like rural Pennsylvania. Like I had a, a life, like, I couldn't, I could never have even imagined growing up in Canada.

And so I guess that what happened was, , I didn't realize the effect that my sobriety had had on my husband. I didn't. Ask him if it was okay that I was writing about it and I was writing things that were getting like published in very, very small publications. Or that I was making art about it, and I think I should have known he was super disinterested in any time there would be like any recognition and so, I should have known that he wasn't comfortable with it, but it was so important to me. I didn't ask, I didn't stop to say like, Hey, is it okay if I share this part of my life? 

And so he, after we sold the business, didn't find his passion, didn't find anything. He just was kind of floating. He couldn't find his purpose. He couldn't find his footing. And so like I had moved so far past that whole like, success. Money thing, and he was still deeply in it. And I think that our values just really diverged. And he woke up one day and left. I can't explain it. Like we had dinner the night before, walked the dogs. Talked about his, like finding his purpose. We talked about him seeing like a performance coach maybe to help figure out what he wanted to do next.

And I guess he might have thought this for a while, I don't know. But that, that I was the problem, right? That I was sort of stopping him from. Finding what he really wanted to do because I was sort of this sober, like, you know, advocate for mental health. You know, I changed a lot. And I think I just wasn't, I wasn't as fun. It turns out I'm way more introverted I think the shock you know, he never really said it's about the drinking. He did. He said like, it's hard for me to connect with people because you don't drink and you're super introverted. I got very close to my I have three nieces and I didn't wanna be around them when I was drinking because their dad drank, and that's the, he hasn't seen them in many years, my brother. 

So yeah, I just became someone else You know, I wasn't at a club at two in the morning. I was making a pie with my eight year old niece, like at two in the afternoon.

[00:17:40] Angela Kennecke: But you must have felt very abandoned if he just left you without any warning. 

[00:17:45] Sonia Kahlon: There's no words. , I, I still don't have the words for it. And it's been, you know, over a year. I still don't. . I just knew that my sobriety was not guaranteed for once, I don't know if I had been naive to think that, well, once you get the five years, you know, but I remember the next morning after he left and I thought, there's no way.

There's just no way I'll stay sober. And, and why? Like, why would I stay sober? I got sober for this beautiful life and like that. Gone. And I don't even know, I don't even have ideas on how to rebuild a life. And so I was at like a really tough point and I don't know why, but he left me with our two tiny dogs. And they're geriatric and they're just adorable. And so I was walking them and I thought, I'm gonna go back to the apartment and I'm gonna log into a. I'm just gonna go to a, it's like a non 12 step community meeting that a couple girlfriends in New York had told me about. And I logged into the 8:00 AM meeting and I went every day for months.

[00:18:46] Angela Kennecke: Oh. 

[00:18:46] Sonia Kahlon: And it just was like this sense of comfort And I had a support system. I have great support system. I have. Wonderful sister-in-laws that literally would put their life on hold to help me, that kept me in their homes for like a month, you know, and, and great nieces. And I had a friend going through a divorce and I have amazing neighbors. Like I have a support system. But unless someone has gone through sobriety, I think that there's something that they just can't understand about how you process emotion. 

[00:19:20] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, I think that's probably true. I've never been through addiction and and recovery, you've never been through the death of a child, you know, I mean, just think like unless you've been through something, you don't really understand it, right? I mean, you can empathize. 

[00:19:32] Sonia Kahlon: No, 

[00:19:32] Angela Kennecke: but you can't really get into the skin of that other human. , 

[00:19:36] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. Like I can say, right, like logically, I think the death of a child is the hardest thing that anyone could ever go through, and I get that. But unless, yeah, unless you've been through it, you don't know what to say and that saying, you know, not, people never said the wrong thing to me.

But that there were things that just like, you don't get it. Like when I feel. Shame or I feel guilt. my instinct is to isolate and numb. Right? And so I wanted to lean on people, but there's also a reason I drank was because I couldn't lean on people. I didn't know how, and I hadn't developed that in the five years that I'd been sober because, , I didn't need it.

Right? Like I had this great life and so, you know, my sister-in-laws were just there, like ready to help and so they were insistent. And so I was very lucky that I had them to lean on. But there's only so much you wanna be like, and I feel like drinking. What am I gonna do about that ? You know?

[00:20:36] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, yeah. But you were able, because of this support group, this virtual support group, you were able to maintain your sob. 

[00:20:45] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, I would say it was a combination of all those things. I would say it was like having that consistency in the mornings and at least knowing there were other people struggling with their sobriety was great.

I think having my family was great and I think that I did have a lot of skills. From being sober. They just weren't like necessarily at like rebuilding a life. But I, you know, I was journaling and I had these like nighttime rituals where, I would light candles and, and so I, the first few weeks I just wanted to like light the house on fire. Like I could not light a candle. I didn't wanna brush my teeth. I mean, I did, I would like, the most I would do is like, brush my teeth and wash my face at night 

[00:21:23] Angela Kennecke: I mean, it's shock and it's loss. Yeah. Right. So it's hard to come to accept it as reality. And that takes time. And I can see how that would really jeopardize your sobriety, anybody's sobriety to go through shock and loss like that. . Yeah. 

 (MUSIC UP!) (Commercial Break - visit www.morethanjustanumber.org) 

[00:21:39] Angela Kennecke: While Sonya found the virtual support group to be helpful, she felt hesitant to actively participate and share her story due to the group's large size.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:21:48] Sonia Kahlon: The groups are about 200 people and so it's like 200 boxes on the Zoom screen and maybe 10, 15 people are actually on camera, and . It wasn't where I was gonna share. I didn't need to vent. Right? I didn't wanna just like raise my hand and like vent for two minutes cuz there's a timer. They time you for two minutes and then be done. I like. Desperately needed feedback. And that was actually something I was getting from my sister-in-laws where I was like, I'm never gonna be ok.

And like, no, you're gonna be ok. And it's like, that's sometimes that's all you need, . And so I just wasn't getting that in those groups. It was sort of like a passive. Recovery style. And then if you look at other models like aa, you, you simply aren't even allowed to crosstalk, right. And I was like, I wanna crosstalk, like I need some crosstalk. Let me look for something like that. And I don't know if you sort of understand this, but like when people are, the beginning of sobriety, like the first like 30, 60, 90 days, like that is a rough time and. when there's 200 people, you wanna give priority to those people and say you know, you need to talk, you need to get out, whatever's going on. And my husband's still gonna be gone in six months. Like, I'm not gonna interrupt someone who's like, I'm gonna drink, like right now, I, you know, whatever. I had a horrible day. I don't know how I'm gonna get through this craving. And I'm, I just didn't want to be the one to interrupt with this sob story about my husband and. 

I thought that's another thing I need is I need people that are also going through something or some point in something that can give that feedback. Right. And so like for example, like now I could give feedback to somebody. in their first one to two months of like a life transition, like a major life overhaul. And so I looked for you know, a group that would have that. So where people are sober and then they're experiencing different things.

And I thought like, what are the horrible things I've experienced? And I thought, well, I had really bad job burnout. I've had like self-esteem, like imposter syndrome, especially with my career. and now I'm having this issue with life transition. I also had an issue being a healthcare provider, trying to find a support group.

And so I thought maybe there is a space where we could sort of curate groups based on what people are going through, right? So everyone sort of feels like they can share and have them a size where, you can share and the consistency. So I didn't wanna have to get on a group and tell them every time the story Right. Of how like, I don't wanna be like, and, and so he left and Yeah. 

[00:24:20] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. I think that commonality is so important. So at Emily's Hope, we started a support group. It's an in-person support group for now, but it's for. People who have lost a loved one to overdose or fentanyl poisoning, and the first one is going, I'm actually taking part in the first one because it's brand new and I wanna see how it works and, and participate in it. And I probably need the help too. I, I'm five years out from losing my daughter to fentanyl poisoning, but. . It has been so interesting to have these six, seven women together in a room who all come from the same place, who all had something very similar happen to them. A stigmatized death because you can go to lots of different bereavement groups, but you know, if you lost your child to cancer, you lost your child to something else.

So I can see the value in having a commonality and also having it be small because it seems like there's so much bonding that goes on in those kinds of groups.

[00:25:13] Sonia Kahlon: I can't agree more. Yeah, and I think that, like you could compare like, okay, so there's Al-Anon, but then there's the Emily's Hope support group you know, for people who have lost. A child to Fentanyl. it's like, one can say like, well, it's kind of the same thing, but it's not. Right. It is in one sense. Right. But it's not in the parts that you really wanna talk about.

 And so yeah, my experience now at six years sober, Trying to rebuild a life is different than someone who's 10 days sober. And just trying to get through the next week. And so I think there is something to be said for that commonality. . 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:25:49] Angela Kennecke: Sonya was looking for that community in small online support groups for substance use disorder, but she was struggling to find something that fit her needs. That's when she decided to create her own program. Ever. Bloom offers a unique approach to online recovery meetings, featuring small groups led by a dedicated recovery coach facilitator.

They carefully match members based on their individual challenges.

 (music up) 

[00:26:13] Angela Kennecke: And so how many different groups do you have meeting at any one time? How does it work at EverBlume? 

[00:26:18] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, so they can try out a free meeting and so I try it out and then they fill out a survey and it's not super in depth, but at least we get to like, what exactly is it that you're struggling with?

And then there's a section where you can just say like, look, I checked all these boxes, but this is really what's bugging me. And then we just find a group. , you know, matches best. And so what we have the most of is early sobriety groups. that is also like, that is a special, that is a special hell being sober from zero to 90 days. And there's different things you wanna talk about. So in that group we talk a lot about developing tools and we talk about a lot about very practical things, which is like, I'm going to a concert on Saturday night, how do I not.

And that's, pretty different than the self-esteem group, right? And so that's a whole different kind of feeling or a job burnout group or healthcare workers group. And so, yeah, and I found it, especially with the healthcare workers. I hadn't even heard this term, but a lot of them have said the, the word secondary trauma, which you don't get as an orthodontist, but that helping people through such like difficult things day after day. it's traumatic, like someone has their trauma, but just talking to them for like people that are therapists, psychiatrists, that type of thing, they are taking on a lot of that. And so that's somewhere where they can have that conversation. Right. 

[00:27:35] Angela Kennecke: So you're offering groups for more than people who are in recovery then? . 

[00:27:40] Sonia Kahlon: So the center of every group is recovery, right? So, 

[00:27:44] Angela Kennecke: okay. 

[00:27:44] Sonia Kahlon: Everybody is in recovery. When I came up with the idea, I, before, I actually launched, I wanted to figure out like, is this something that exists? I interviewed tons of people and so it was like, okay, lemme draw it out. And I, I wrote sober at the center of a circle, and then I put spokes coming out and said, what are the other issues that people that are sober or just humans deal with that can affect your sobriety?

and that require like a deeper conversation. And so yeah, everybody starts with being sober. But depending on the group, there's a certain amount of discussion about sobriety and then there's a certain amount of discussion about other things. But it's a nice part about a small group is last night we had an early sobriety group and someone asked how do I not transfer this addiction to something else? Like how do I quit alcohol but not end? Overeating or, you know, watching 30 hours of Netflix 

and honestly like it resonated with so many people because the group is small. We spent the next 20 minutes talking about it. And that's something you can't do in other groups where you can't shift based on. What people are going through that exact moment. And it honestly it was so helpful for me too, and so, 

[00:28:54] Angela Kennecke: sure. Sure. That's a very common thing. Transfer of addiction, and so how are you doing now a year later? Has it been a year since your marriage ended? Yeah. How are you doing?

[00:29:06] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think people wanna hear that. I'm like, amazing and like that. 

[00:29:11] Angela Kennecke: Well, you know, this is a great, you can look that way on social media all you want, . Yeah, no, you can, I mean, go on Instagram and look like everything's perfect, right? yeah. 

[00:29:20] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. I mean, I think, anytime a marriage breaks up after, you know, we were together 18 years, I think that's a tragedy. I still do. I think that, you should work it out and like there was nothing between us that couldn't have been worked out. But I also feel like I believe it happened for a reason now, which I did not believe before, other than to make me miserable, I thought was the reason.

 But now I believe that there's something that I was meant to do that I couldn't do. When I was with this person, and so it's just a different life and it's like a parallel life, but I haven't yet decided if it's a better life, if that makes sense. 

[00:29:57] Angela Kennecke: But it sounds to me like you've forged a whole new path because of it, because you sought out that help.

[00:30:02] Sonia Kahlon: Mm-hmm. , 

[00:30:03] Angela Kennecke: then you've forged a whole new path and now you're helping others, which. is all we can really do with what life hands us, the suffering that life hands us. We have a choice, you know, are we gonna make something out of this that can help other people? Or are we gonna wallow in our own suffering or go, you know, relapse? That kind of thing.

But you made a very definite choice to do something really positive with this tragedy that happened in your life. . 

[00:30:28] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. I mean, a couple of months after I got the idea, I really was like, I don't wanna like reinvent the wheel, so I did tons of interviews and I became a recovery coach and that was amazing.

And so I, yeah, every step in the last year has gotten me kind of closer to like, who I really want to be and what I want to do. And so yeah, I, I have, you know what? I have an infinite amount of hope but I still have, I'm sure you do too. You still have like really bad days where you know there was a reason but you just don't see it that day.

[00:30:59] Angela Kennecke: And, I don't know if I believe the reason. I don't think there was a reason. I don't think my daughter had to die. I think circumstances, created the tragedy, but I think. , all I have left is what I can do with it. Right. So this podcast is part of that. And meeting so many people who are doing things like I'm doing, like you are doing, you know that they're taking like the worst thing that happened to them and they're trying to create meaning out of it and move forward.

[00:31:24] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah. And I think that you can only help people if you've been through it. And I think I. I feel worn out like when I get done with a meeting sometimes because I put so much emotion into it. Like I feel so even talking to you, like I feel so emotional about it. , I don't think I've ever felt that passionate about anything.

And recovery's just sort of like, I could talk about recovery all day, every day and meet people in recovery all day, every day and never get. as opposed to, you know, tightening a wire in somebody's mouth. . 

[00:31:56] Angela Kennecke: But, but you're doing, what I've often heard is the antidote for addiction connection. You're creating those connections for people. 

[00:32:03] Sonia Kahlon: Yeah, and I think it was, I was, so I don't have a traditional family. I didn't have kids and not, you know, close with my parents or my brother, but I have this sort of like non-traditional chosen family of my sister-in-laws, my nieces, and my neighbors and everything, and I thought like, that's all we need. Right? It's okay if I don't have a husband and I don't have, you know, and, and I just, I'm super grateful. I was super grateful for what I have. And I think that that also really helped we just need to connect. It doesn't matter who, it's, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:32:34] Angela Kennecke: Well, I just uh, very impressed by everything that you're doing. I'm glad that you're turning, what is a very troubling thing into something positive for you and for others. And I just wanna thank you so much for joining me for the podcast.

[00:32:47] Sonia Kahlon: Thank you for having me, and thank you for doing what you do too. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:32:51] Angela Kennecke: thank you for tuning into this episode of Grieving Out Loud. If you're interested in learning more about ever Bloom, be sure to check out the show notes for this episode. If you found this episode helpful, we would really appreciate it if you'd leave us a positive review and share it with your friends and family.

By doing so, you're helping us get the word out about the drug and alcohol crisis and hopefully prevent more tragedies. Thanks again for tuning in. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage. This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg King and Anna Fey

 (MUSIC UP!)