[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: (MUSIC UP!) 

I am Angela Kennecke and this is Grieving Out Loud. Today I'm sitting down with Susan Lynch. Susan is an award-winning professional dog trainer for decades. She's known the importance of our furry friends, but she never could have predicted the role her dogs would play after her son died from a drug overdose. 

[00:00:23] Susan Lynch: I felt so much judgment 

toward myself. You know, 

the thing with stigma is that there's so much judgment that goes around. There's the judgment of the person that died. There's the judgment of the family, you know, like what was wrong in that family. And then there's the person that's grieving, that's judging themself.

 I felt all three of those. . I couldn't share the cause of death with anybody and I didn't tell my family. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't tell anybody for two years. 

[00:00:55] Angela Kennecke: Susan was finally able to learn to live with the unthinkable and even share her story to hopefully save others. Thanks in part, to the animals who have always depended on her..

[00:01:08] Susan Lynch: my dogs were the only ones I really felt a hundred percent comfortable around, cuz there's no judgment. . Right. No judgment. 

[00:01:15] Angela Kennecke: No judgment. Right. 

[00:01:16] Susan Lynch: And that's what I felt that was such a big part of my grief, was the judgment and the shame 

and they were we love you. We think you're wonderful. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:01:27] Angela Kennecke: Thank you for listening to this episode of Grieving Out Loud. I started this podcast along with my charity, Emily's Hope, after my 21 year old daughter Emily died from Fentanyl poisoning. I hope by sharing my story along with the stories of others, that we can raise awareness about our nation's devastating drug epidemic, get more people into treatment and prevent others from ever experimenting with drugs to begin with.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:01:58] Angela Kennecke: Susan, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. I am so grateful that you could join. , 

[00:02:02] Susan Lynch: thank you. I'm, excited to be here. 

[00:02:04] Angela Kennecke: When I was learning a little bit more about you, I discovered you were a competitive dog trainer, which seems fascinating to me. How long have you been doing that? How did you get started? 

[00:02:14] Susan Lynch: So, I have been doing it since 1995, so quite a while.

I grew up with golden retrievers and I always wanted one for a family pet, and I. Had started doing some work in the kids' schools when my kids were in elementary school and they needed to be therapy dog certified. So there was some training that went into that and I just found I really loved it and just kind of continued with it.

Golden Retriever 

[00:02:45] Angela Kennecke: is our such an amazing breed, aren't they? They're just wonderful dogs. 

[00:02:50] Susan Lynch: They're amazing. They're just so intuitive and. Such a huge part of my healing process. 

[00:02:57] Angela Kennecke: I wanna get to that, how they can be healing. But you were raising two boys and you live on the East coast. And tell me a little bit about your sons and what life was like as they were growing up. 

[00:03:10] Susan Lynch: they had a great childhood. We live in a small country town. , they would summer at Lake Winnipesaukee at my parents. They lived up there which is a huge lake in the middle of the state. I live in New Hampshire.

 They played sports. They had a lot of friends and yeah, it was pretty idyllic. . 

[00:03:30] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Sounds idyllic. And I think we think we're protecting our kids if we raise them in a great place like that. Right. If we're a, good parent and they're relatively safe and we don't think they're gonna fall into the trap of using drugs.

[00:03:45] Susan Lynch: Absolutely. The population in our town is like 7,000. So it's pretty small. we Have a lot of farms here and it's just everything about it says healthy, But as you know you know, drugs find their way into every class and every kind of. Town. 

[00:04:03] Angela Kennecke: yeah, I just spoke to students in a smaller community, and I got the overarching sense that people in the community were more worried about once these kids left the town, which, you know, maybe they should be, but I said, Hey, they're everywhere.

They're right here, whether you think they are or not. Every small town, every community now, and with the danger in the drug supply, it's scarier than ever, but just the ease of access of drugs is. Out there. It's incredible. 

[00:04:29] Susan Lynch: Yeah. So Kevin died in 2015 and it just seemed like it was one after the other. it seemed like every five months there was somebody else in our community that was dying. . 

[00:04:42] Angela Kennecke: Well, let's talk about Kevin. Tell me about what kind of kid he was. 

[00:04:45] Susan Lynch: So he was he was very charming. He kind of came out that way. , he was funny. He had a lot of friends. He played sports as a little kid. He wrestled when he was in high school. And somewhere around, Oh, I'd say somewhere around 17. He started smoking a lot of pot. he loved music and he was really into like the Grateful Dead and the Jam band scene and started going to music festivals. over the weekends.

 And then he, he did go to college. He went to school for a year and then he came home and that was really when I saw. Some real depression. He felt his life was going nowhere.

 And really struggled. He had a dead end job. And so those were some really hard years for him 

[00:05:41] Angela Kennecke: when he was 17 and he started smoking weed, were you worried about that? 

[00:05:46] Susan Lynch: Oh, absolutely. . I was like, oh God, Kevin, you reek.

First of all, the smell just is everywhere. And you know, it affected his attitude. He didn't care. And he was just, like a lot of kids trying to self-medicate. 

[00:06:03] Angela Kennecke: What was he self-medicating for? Do you? , 

[00:06:06] Susan Lynch: he did not do well in school academically. He always struggled and he was so well liked and so social and I kept saying, Kev, you don't understand what a gift that is.

 He used to go to these shows by himself just to meet people. Like that's how open and friendly he was. And I said, Kev, you know, you don't realize what a gift that is. You know, maybe you could use that in communications or, trying to like set him up and think of his life being productive and he just could not see that for himself at all.

[00:06:44] Angela Kennecke: Hmm. So he drops outta college, he comes and lives with you. His job isn't that great. He feels bad about himself and his life situation. , is that when he started using more than just marijuana or do you know? 

[00:06:58] Susan Lynch: I didn't know Yes. Is the answer. He started using pills and I remember thinking, I'm so glad he doesn't smell like pot anymore. that was what I remember. Like, oh, good. He's, cleaning himself up and, I knew he was struggling with depression. You know, I thought, well, maybe he's coming off of using marijuana so frequently. 

[00:07:21] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. 

[00:07:21] Susan Lynch: But I had absolutely no idea that he was using pills. 

[00:07:26] Angela Kennecke: He had basically switched.

[00:07:27] Susan Lynch: Yeah, he had switched, and I don't really know to the extent of how much used I found out after he died that this was when he started. But he lived with me from. 2010 to 2014. And in 2014 he was like, mom, and he had been into some trouble. He had been arrested for marijuana possession.

And he said, mom, I, I gotta start over. I wanna move. I wanna go to California. And I said, okay. He said, I want a fresh start. I have a job out there. I have a friend I can live with, and. . I said, okay, if you have any trouble out there, you know, you know you can come home, we'll fly you home. And he said, yep.

And I said, you know, I gave him my blessing cuz I wanted him to leave knowing that I was supporting him like that, I believed that he could turn his life around. so he went out to California in 2014. He was there for exactly 13 months. when he died.. 

[00:08:33] Angela Kennecke: Oh, and I bet that was kind of hard for you to let him go, especially all the way across the country like that. Even though you wanted to be supportive internally. Were you struggling at all? 

[00:08:44] Susan Lynch: Oh, absolutely. I was constantly Micromanaging, I would be texting him, Kev, did you Pay your Planet Fitness bill and you know, you're gonna get a late fee. And, I couldn't get out of that mode.

So that was kind of me trying to , I don't know if it's over parenting or try to help him succeed. But yeah, it was stressful, especially on the days where I would call him and he didn't answer. 

[00:09:12] Angela Kennecke: So do you think once he got to California, his use actually got worse then? 

[00:09:17] Susan Lynch: I can't know for sure.

I did speak with one of his friends after he died at length who also struggled with addiction, and he said he talked to Kevin almost every day and he said he was not using while he was out there. He was clean. And he said, there's a way that they talk. You can hear it in the voice. And Kevin was really honest with him.

So I, I believed his friend when he said that he was clean and we saw Kevin twice. He came home for Christmas that year and then we saw him in February. We, we went on a vacation to Costa Rica for 10 days. And he was wonderful. And I would never think that he was doing anything while he was there.

[00:10:04] Angela Kennecke: Ultimately, what do you know happened? 

[00:10:08] Susan Lynch: He went to a party with a friend of his, A friend came and picked him up. They drove down to the San Francisco area. They met up with another friend, so the three of them went to a party. They were drinking and they were smoking. They went back to the friend's apartment at. three in the morning went to bed and Kevin didn't wake up. 

[00:10:37] Angela Kennecke: Oh, so at the friend's apartment? 

[00:10:39] Susan Lynch: Yeah. So they woke up to him on the couch. the trauma that they had finding their friend was, I can't, I can't even imagine. 

[00:10:51] Angela Kennecke: But you got that call and you're thousand miles more away. 

[00:10:55] Susan Lynch: Well, yeah, so actually I was on my way home from Ohio.

I was driving home from Ohio, so it's a 14 hour drive. I had been in Ohio for a dog show, a week long dog show. My plan was to drive to New York, stay overnight, and then finish the drive on Sunday. , as soon as I crossed into New York I had a phone call it was an unknown caller. I said, oh, I'm not gonna answer that . 

So I pulled into the rest area and I listened to the message that the unknown caller left, and it was a deputy in California telling me that Kevin had died. So I was still seven hours from. in a rest area by myself in New York. So I drove home I drove those seven hours home.

Yeah, I know. 

[00:11:49] Angela Kennecke: Oh my gosh, I cannot believe you did that. yeah, I got the news as I was getting into my car. I actually drove in the wrong direction. I mean, it's just, it's such a hard. shock, I can't believe you made it home, 

[00:11:59] Susan Lynch: well, I tell people that I absolutely compartmentalized the whole thing.

 I did not let myself fall apart. I just kept it all in. I'm like, I gotta, I didn't have that luxury. I'm like, I got to get home. I have to get home. , that's what I kept saying. And my husband kept calling me every 20 minutes, and it was probably more like every 10 minutes, but it was yeah, I ended up getting home at about 1230 at night.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:12:27] Angela Kennecke: After arriving home, Susan traveled to California to find out more information about her son's death. The toxicology report revealed that Kevin had died from a combined drug intoxication, a mixture of alcohol and opiates. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:12:43] Susan Lynch: The actual report said alcohol, morphine, and codeine, and that it said six m a m present.

I didn't know what any of that meant. . I would later learn that that's how heroin breaks down in the body. that's all really, I had to go on, I ordered the autopsy and read through that. They didn't find anything, really crazy other than that. 

[00:13:10] Angela Kennecke: an overdose. An opioid overdose. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:13:13] Angela Kennecke: Susan's story is truly heartbreaking. Not only did she lose her youngest child, but she also had to deal with the harsh stigma that surrounds substance use disorder.

According to World Health Organization, research addiction to illicit drugs is one of the most stigmatized conditions. That's why organizations like Emily's Hope are working hard to change that. We're sharing research that proves that addiction is a disease of the brain and it can affect people from all walks of life regardless of their race or social status.

If you wanna be part of this movement, check out our website at Emily's Hope dot charity. Together we can make a difference to end the stigma surrounding substance use disorder. While there's still a lot of work to be done, Susan agrees there's more awareness now than when Kevin died in 2015.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:14:14] Angela Kennecke: It just wasn't in the news every day, 

[00:14:16] Susan Lynch: right? He died. Just before all the Narcan push was 

[00:14:22] Angela Kennecke: so did you feel ashamed or afraid to talk about it at the. 

[00:14:27] Susan Lynch: Yes. I felt shame on a very deep level. First of all, I didn't know Kevin was using those kinds of drugs, so I was dealing with the death and the shock of how he died and. I felt so much judgment the thing with stigma is that there's so much judgment that goes around. There's the judgment of the person that died. There's the judgment of the family, you know, like what was wrong in that family. And then there's the person that's grieving, that's judging themself.

 I felt all three of those. . I couldn't share the cause of death with anybody and I didn't tell my family. I didn't tell my parents, I didn't tell anybody for two years. So 

[00:15:13] Angela Kennecke: two years. Two years. Wow. Yeah. That's a very long time. I totally get what you're saying because I thought my daughter was smoking weed and using Xanax, you know, pills and pot, and I thought she had a problem, but I didn't know she was using a stronger substance like heroin. I had no idea. So then I felt just dumb, 

[00:15:30] Susan Lynch: exactly. You're like, how could I not know this? I was his mother. Like, what, what does that make me like? Does that make me a bad mom? So there was so many ways to be judged in this was what was going on in my own mind, you know?

But it is reality. 

[00:15:45] Angela Kennecke: So two years go by, you don't really talk about it, did something change at some point? And if so, what was that? 

[00:15:52] Susan Lynch: Yes. So because I wasn't sharing the cause of death, I. Subjected to everybody's opinion on overdose, right? Because it was in the news all the time. And it, all it did was reinforce my shame.

So I was like, just stuffing, stuffing, stuffing all of the anger and the resentment and I couldn't even. tell somebody my son died without them saying, oh my God, I'm so sorry. What happened? Like, they wanted to get to those details. 

So I actually two years after Kevin died, I started to look into becoming a affiliate leader for helping Parents Heal, which is a support group for parents whose kids have died.

and I wanted to get some media press, some newspaper, to let people know that I was doing that. So I contacted a newspaper reporter and I asked her if she would do a feature on this parent support group. So she said, sure. So she came to my house. She was here for a couple of hours and I thought it went really well.

And then at the end, , she said, we never talked about how Kevin died. And I said, well, he died of multiple drug intoxication, but I don't want that printed because I haven't told my family. So she says, okay. And she leaves and I forgot to ask her what issue it was going to be in.

So I emailed her back. and she sent me an email that said, well, I can appreciate what you're trying to do without the cause of death. It leaves a large and unacceptable hole in the story. She said, and without that I can't print it. And I saw red. I was afraid of how angry I was and. , I did what I normally do. I go in the woods and I take my dogs with me, and I have this absolute meltdown and I'm screaming, and I was vibrating, and I just said to myself, why am I so mad? And immediately I had this image of Kevin. Face on the front page of another newspaper from 10 years ago when he was arrested for underage drinking at a friend's house.

And I thought, oh my God, I have been carrying this chip on my shoulder around for 10 years. And it, there was so many similarities between the stories, you know, they wanted that salacious detail and I thought, . I can either keep going the way I'm going, which is not working for me, or I can just tell people what happened.

And I did there was this huge weight that was lifted off my shoulders, I talked about it with my husband and I went into it that. My parents or anybody felt differently about Kevin because of how he died. That was on them. Like I could not control it anymore, and that's really what I was trying to do. I was trying to control how he was gonna be remembered. 

[00:19:25] Angela Kennecke: Oh, sure. . was, that makes sense. And you know, as a journalist, I do understand that reporter's perspective, people are gonna wanna know as they read the article, they're talking to this woman who son died. what they're gonna be asking is, well, how did he die? You know, as they read the article. And so then you're leaving the how, that important question unanswered. 

And I, doubt that the reporter was asking for salacious. I hope not salacious reasons. 

[00:19:51] Susan Lynch: Oh, no. This is, this is where your mind goes though, you know?

[00:19:53] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. 

[00:19:53] Susan Lynch: Your mind goes and 

[00:19:55] Angela Kennecke: Sure. 

[00:19:56] Susan Lynch: in my mind, I thank her for what she did, because if she didn't do that, Who knows. I may never have told anybody. 

[00:20:04] Angela Kennecke: So, so did she publish the article with his cause of death in it? 

[00:20:08] Susan Lynch: No. No, she didn't. I wouldn't give her permission. 

[00:20:10] Angela Kennecke: Oh, okay. But then following that is when you finally said, I'm just gonna talk about it. And if people can't handle it, it's on them. 

[00:20:18] Susan Lynch: Exactly. 

[00:20:19] Angela Kennecke: And what happened then, after you did start talking about it? This would've been. 2017 probably, right? 

[00:20:25] Susan Lynch: Yes. It was 2017. I kind of dragged it out. I talked to people individually, like my sister, my brother, my parents because I wanted to practice telling the story cuz I had kept it for so long. And I wanted to pay attention to everybody's response. Which they were all positive, very, very positive, very supportive. They felt bad that I had, kept it in for so long, but I really needed to do that. Untangling of all those emotions I needed to do that private.

And really make it right in my own head before I could share it with somebody else. 

[00:21:05] Angela Kennecke: And then you not only talked about it, you went on to write a book about it, which , you know, is really talking about it and opening yourself up to everybody in many details of your story. What prompted you to write the book?

[00:21:17] Susan Lynch: I felt the kind of, I felt the push from Kevin. And I had gone out to the Helping Parents Heal Conference in 2018 and I had a reading with a Medium but she gave me some. amazing information. And one of the things she said was Kevin was really pushing me to write a book. And then I had, what came across my desk was writing through grief and trauma with David Kessler, who 

[00:21:48] Angela Kennecke: Oh, sure. 

[00:21:49] Susan Lynch: Yeah. So he's an amazing grief expert and it was so helpful. And then I started writing and. I just said I'm gonna do it and I'm so glad I did. It was so cathar. 

[00:22:03] Angela Kennecke: the title of the book is Life After Kevin, A Mother's Search for Peace and the Golden Retrievers that led the Way. So we're getting back to the dogs . 

[00:22:14] Susan Lynch: Yes. 

[00:22:14] Angela Kennecke: So I wanna know that is a unique title. So I wanna know about the golden retrievers that led the way and what that means. 

[00:22:23] Susan Lynch: So I credit them as being my first teachers at the point where I got the call when Kevin died, I was traveling, you know, I was traveling around the country. I was showing, I was competing. I had been a competitor, most of my life.

And we were training like five or six days a week. So they were training at really high levels. And from the time I got the call, , they absolutely switched gears. When I was in the house, they were lying at my feet. They were quiet. They never pushed me to, you know, come on, let's go, let's go. Cuz you know, these dogs were athletes.

And then they went from that to pretty much nothing. And I just couldn't believe the shift in their behavior. But when I took them out for a walk, , they were present, they were having a good time. They were sniffing and wagging their tail and rolling, and just the complete opposite. And I thought, they're just so balanced.

And in my mind I was like, that's what I want more of. And so they taught me that I can give my grief as much time as I need, as long as I need. , but I can also enjoy the good stuff that's right in front of me. So that was just this big lesson for me that put me on a path that was more of a healing path. And I can laugh when I find something funny and don't have to stay in a state of grief, a constant grief. It was such a gift 

[00:24:07] Angela Kennecke: and that can be really hard because I think, especially as a grieving mom, we think it's almost like a betrayal if you laugh or if there's some sort of joy in your life because how can you laugh or have joy when your child is dead?

[00:24:20] Susan Lynch: Right. 

[00:24:20] Angela Kennecke: You know, I just think as a mother who's lost a child, we all, those of us who have, have felt that way. 

[00:24:27] Susan Lynch: Absolutely. Yep. . , it was almost like they gave me permission, like, you can do both. You know, you can grieve, but you don't have to live there.

And it was like, oh, okay. I'm gonna embody that. But When I would take them out for a walk, I started to watch them and you know, they would be like, sniffing and you not be like, what are they looking at? You know? It was almost like a walking meditation. 

And it got me out of my head and into the moment and it was it, it was almost like a reset. , we have These new habits that we want to have. We have to keep practicing and we have to keep going back and like retraining our brain.

And that's what they did for me when I was on the walk. So I was constantly looking, what are the dogs doing? What are the dogs doing? 

[00:25:17] Angela Kennecke: I think it can be just very meditative to be out in nature with animals anyway. it's a great way to heal and I think that just animals themselves can be incredibly healing. We adopted, A pandemic puppy . So my daughter and I, then my daughter left to go back to college. So it's my puppy a Havanese in 2020. And I've had lots of other dogs before. Actually, this is my second one that I have right now, but I have found, that dog to be so incredibly healing To me it's just more the affection just excitement when you come home and a companionship and always there right by my side. And I think animals could be incredibly healing for the grieving. 

[00:25:58] Susan Lynch: Absolutely. I think that my dogs were the only ones I really felt a hundred percent comfortable around, cuz there's no judgment. . Right. No judgment. 

[00:26:06] Angela Kennecke: No judgment. Right. 

[00:26:07] Susan Lynch: And that's what I felt that was such a big part of my grief, was the judgment and the shame it was like just this lead, lead blanket on me. And they were like, yeah. , we love you. We think you're wonderful. And that was the message that I was getting from them all the time. 

[00:26:27] Angela Kennecke: It's hard because it's such a double whammy when you have stigma on top of the loss, right? Because you're already, you've lost such an important part of you, your child, and. they're gone. And then you have stigma on top of that. It, that's just, it's so troubling. 

[00:26:43] Susan Lynch: It's such a complicating factor. It really is.

[00:26:46] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. .

[00:26:46] Susan Lynch: And that's like a big part of my message is and in yours I'm sure as well, is, you know what I want people to know what that stigma does to these families that are grieving. So horrible. I mean, I kept this a secret for two years cuz I didn't want people to judge me. I didn't want people to judge my son. That was more of the reason I didn't want people to see him just because of how he died and, 

[00:27:18] Angela Kennecke: right. 

[00:27:19] Susan Lynch: One of the reasons why I wrote the book was because I wanted to humanize overdose. I wanted to give it a face. You know, I had a coworker say to me, cuz he didn't know that Kevin had died of an overdose. He, he said, oh, well one more drug addict off the street. Hmm. 

[00:27:36] Angela Kennecke: Horrible. That's horrible. 

[00:27:37] Susan Lynch: Yeah. And by the time you finished with the book, you'll know who Kevin was as a person and I don't have the grandi. Idea that I'm gonna change somebody's mind about overdose, but I'm certainly gonna give you something to think about. 

[00:27:51] Angela Kennecke: And you mentioned that you saw a medium. So I was curious because I think a lot of parents in our position seek out anything. You know, it might be church, it might be just looking for answers, looking to what happens, where did they go, what happens after you die? What do you think happens after we. 

[00:28:10] Susan Lynch: I think that they are just beyond a veil. I think they're very close to us. When I first went to a Medium, I asked Kevin before I went, I said, Kev, I don't need you to tell me anything specific. I said, just let me know. You're around. Just let me know. You're close. You can hear me.

the key thing for me that this medium said was she was so specific, she said, there's a very small piece of paper, it's very thin, like parchment paper, and it has very pertinent writing on it, and it's in the top draw of the dresser in the bedroom. and I was like, okay, that's very specific, right?

[00:28:58] Angela Kennecke: Yes. 

[00:28:58] Susan Lynch: And yeah, and I'm thinking, okay, I had been through Kevin's room. I had searched Ty and Lowe. I had no idea what she was talking about. And she was like, she was completely like, she kept doing, like rubbing her fingers together. She said, it's very thin, it's like parchment paper. And I have the recording.

So I didn't know what she was talking about. I went through Kevin's room again. I listened to the recording and I said she didn't say what bedroom. And I immediately knew I have a tall dresser, I have a thin tall dresser in my bedroom. And I went flying in there and in the top draw there was a little piece of parchment paper it was like a fortune cookie, but it was like a piece of chocolate. And it said I used to admire intelligent people. Now I admire kind people. And it was just a quote from, like the 18 hundreds or something and I thought, ugh. He's around, he heard me 

because I didn't even know that piece of paper was there. I had put that in there eight months prior, and he knew it was there and he was able to give her all the directions. So that really opened my mind to signs and I had a huge sign from him the day after the service.

[00:30:24] Angela Kennecke: What was that? 

[00:30:25] Susan Lynch: I had said to Kevin before at the funeral, you need to let me know you're okay. I didn't ask him. I told him I was in like, total mom mode. I'm like, you have to let me know. So the next day all the stuff is done right? All the services. Cuz that's like a busying thing too, right?

[00:30:43] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. . 

[00:30:43] Susan Lynch: And then it's like, okay, what now? . 

So my husband and I, I said, let's take the dogs for a walk. It was Columbus Day weekend. It was beautiful. It was like 70 degrees out. We have lots of trails. We have 85 miles of trails within 15 minutes of my house. Yeah. So I picked a particular trail that was, flat and easy cuz I didn't have a lot of energy and I. I want to take Kevin's friendly nature with us. Cuz normally I'm, I'm not, I don't let my dogs interact with other dogs cuz they say they're friendly and then they're not friendly. 

So I said I wanna keep Kevin's open mind and friendly nature. So we go on this trail it was like about a 40 minute walk.

I had stopped, talked to this couple. that went well, and we're heading out and we're almost back to the car. And this woman, her mom, so she was like, you know, my age. And then her mother, so like the grandmother, and then they had two kids, a boy and a girl, and they were about 10 years old with them. And they had this boxer, this boxer mix, and he was like, on the end of his leash, he was like pulling, pulling, pulling. Couldn't wait to get to us. And I thought, okay, here we go. You know? 

And. . So they get to us and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be friendly Like Kevin. We start talking and you know, I'm trying to make sure that the dogs aren't getting all tangled up and we're getting ready to say goodbye. the woman says, okay, Kevin, let's go. And I thought, you know, when you hear your child's name and you're. Oh my god. What did she just say? So I turned around and I looked at her and I thought she was gonna be looking at her son, but she was looking at her dog. 

[00:32:34] Angela Kennecke: The dog's name was Kevin, 

[00:32:35] Susan Lynch: the dog's name was Kevin.

And she said, let's go Kev. And I was like, oh my goodness. So, you know, cuz we told her and she started crying and, and I was like smiling and crying at the same time. Because if you knew Kevin, I mean, he was so funny and he loved dogs and it was so in character, like I, I told you, I'd let you know I was fine. I was like, boom. How'd you like that? ? So 

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[00:33:05] Angela Kennecke: do you feel eight years later, has it been eight years since Kevin died? 

[00:33:09] Susan Lynch: It'll be eight years, October. 

[00:33:12] Angela Kennecke: October 3rd. 

[00:33:13] Susan Lynch: Yeah. 

[00:33:13] Angela Kennecke: Do you still get signs? Do you feel him close to you? 

[00:33:16] Susan Lynch: Absolutely. When I decided I was gonna write this book, I said I want it to come out on October 3rd, cuz that would be the seventh anniversary of his death.

And I wanted to create something positive, almost normally the saddest day on the calendar for me. So I was writing a blog and I went on the National day list to see if I could have like any, additional links that I could talk about. And I started scrolling through October and I didn't have to get very far cause it was October 3rd and October 3rd is in fact national. Kevin. 

[00:33:53] Angela Kennecke: Really? That's pretty amazing. I love that. That's pretty amazing. 

[00:33:56] Susan Lynch: Yeah, so I was like, I started laughing and I'm like, of course it's National Kevin Day. Right?

Because Kevin was, you know, he loved to be the center of attention, and so I was like, okay, there's my blessing from him. But yeah, I get signs from him all the time. . 

[00:34:10] Angela Kennecke: Do you think it's changed? I feel like the first year after Emily died, I felt like a year or two, the signs were more pronounced. I just feel like it's changes as time goes by. Maybe I, I don't know how to exactly explain that, 

[00:34:24] Susan Lynch: I, I feel like Kevin just guides me all the time, so I, I do feel like he's with me all the time and I think. For me, I don't need them anymore. In the beginning I needed them.

I absolutely needed them. It was so important to me to hear from him, you know? Cuz I was missing him so much. But now it's like, I know he's close by. , I know I can get there in my mind. If I sit in a quiet in his room, I sit a lot in his room. And I'll meditate and I just, kind of invite him in and just kind of sit there and I make time for him.

So I guess that's, it has shifted a little bit. I don't get Kevin, the dogs. Stories. 

[00:35:12] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, but I do, that's kind of what I mean. Yeah. 

[00:35:15] Susan Lynch: Yeah. I do get, I, but I do get like little nudges and, and if something comes across my desk that's like, you know, really helpful to me, I'll be like, oh, thanks Kev.

[00:35:25] Angela Kennecke: We have a lot of parents who listen to this podcast who may be very new in this grief journey. What advice do you have for. . 

[00:35:33] Susan Lynch: Sit. Sit with your grief. Make time for your grief. It's just the hardest thing to do, but you know what? There is no way around it. It is gonna be there. It's gonna pop up. And I found that because I was hiding so much, I felt the only way that I could cry was to go in his room, close the door, and. Cry because I was holding everything in all the time. And our society is just so bad at grief, and 

[00:36:06] Angela Kennecke: Yes, yes they are. 

[00:36:07] Susan Lynch: They're just awful.

[00:36:08] Angela Kennecke: We are in general, collectively, we, yes, we don't have time for it. Move on. Right? Go back to work. Yeah. All those things, right? 

[00:36:16] Susan Lynch: Yeah. But our child died. , that's a really big deal, and it needs attention. And so I would go in his room. I, I used to like literally schedule time. I would go in his room and I would sit there and sometimes I would just cry. Sometimes I would journal I would always talk to him. And when I was, felt like I was ready, I would come out. And I feel like it did a few things. , it got stuff out right and it created room for me to do something else. and I found that by doing that I was less blindsided by my grief. 

So that would. my number one thing that I did. That was helpful. 

[00:37:02] Angela Kennecke: Well, thank you so much for that. Thank you for sharing your story, Kevin's story for writing the book. We're gonna put a link to the book in the show notes. So I just really appreciate this chance to meet you and to get to know you and your story better.

[00:37:16] Susan Lynch: Thank you. Thank you. It was great being here. 

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[00:37:18] Angela Kennecke: and thank you for joining us for this episode of Grieving Out Loud. We hope this conversation has provided you with comfort, support, and valuable information. If you found this podcast helpful, please consider leaving us a positive review and sharing it with friends and family. By doing so, you can help us reach more people who may be struggling and provide them with resources they need.

Thank you again. Until next time. Wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

This podcast is produced by Casey Wonnenberg-King and Anna Fey.

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