[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: We're excited to introduce you to a truly amazing woman who's been making a huge impact in her community. Evelyn Leite has dedicated her career to helping others in the addiction and mental health fields for more than 35 years, and her hard work has earned her a spot in the South Dakota Hall of Fame, but that's not all. She's also a prolific author who's currently working on her 18th book. These books are deeply personal and share experiences from her own life that haven't always been easy to talk about.

[00:00:38] Evelyn Leite: We need encouragement. We need to know we're not that bad person that we think we. ,

[00:00:45] Angela Kennecke: Hear how Leite was able to recover from a traumatic childhood, an ex-husband who was abusive and her own struggles with substance use disorder. 

[00:00:54] Evelyn Leite: It's not what happens to you that is the problem.

It's what you tell yourself about what happens to you.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:01:03] Angela Kennecke: It's great to have you here on Grieving Out Loud. I'm Angela Ken. I started this podcast and my charity, Emily's Hope, after losing my 21 year old daughter, Emily, to Fentanyl poisoning. It has been a difficult journey, but my hope is that by sharing our stories and raising awareness about the drug epidemic, we can make a difference and help ease the pain of others going through similar struggles.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

Evelyn, welcome to Grieving Out Loud. I am so grateful to talk to you, a Co. South Dakota Hall of Famer. That's kind of fun. 

[00:01:41] Evelyn Leite: Thanks Angela. 

[00:01:42] Angela Kennecke: And you have so much life experience to share. You're a prolific author. How many books have you written? 

[00:01:49] Evelyn Leite: 17. 

[00:01:50] Angela Kennecke: I thought that was the number. I didn't want to get it wrong.

And mostly about your life journey and your effort to help others. So let's just dig right into it. You were born into pretty traumatic experience. 

[00:02:05] Evelyn Leite: I was born in 1938 and I grew up in a, on a farm. And on this farm, we had no electricity, no running water, none of the things that we have today. But we did have a big family and we had our good times.

My father was an alcoholic, so there was a lot of confusion in my life because when there's an addiction, there's this Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde effect that goes on, which leaves kids very confused. It's like wow to what's true today isn't true tomorrow. and you know, really, really nice father on one day and then a kind of a grouch and he could be verbally abusive on the next day.

So I grew up very confused

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:02:58] Angela Kennecke: That confusion also carried into Leite's first marriage. Her husband not only struggled with alcohol addiction, but also became abusive

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:03:10] Evelyn Leite: I had been married for like 13 years and he was in the Air Force, so we had been all over the world and I came back to live in Fort Pier, which is where I grew up.

and my brother was nearby and my husband was never around. He was usually out drinking and I was in the hospital for like the 20th time I had to call him to come and pick me up from the hospital. He came and he picked me up and he said, I am never helping you again.

you could be somebody if you wanted to be somebody you could, and I am done helping you live with this mess, and so you gotta do something. Well, about a month later, my brother got killed in a rodeo accident up in McLaughlin, South Dakota, and I went home to the funeral and. 

 on a way back to, rapid City where I lived, I said, I will be somebody and I will do it for you. 

[00:04:16] Angela Kennecke: Hmm. For your brother. For your brother who saw that in you and who thought you were in a horrible situ. and you needed a change.

[00:04:24] Evelyn Leite: And He didn't like the idea that I put up with all of this, but 

[00:04:28] Angela Kennecke: mm-hmm. , 

[00:04:28] Evelyn Leite: see, I didn't really have any value in my own mind. 

[00:04:31] Angela Kennecke: You mean personal in your heart 

[00:04:34] Evelyn Leite: value? Yeah. And this was early sixties and 

[00:04:41] Angela Kennecke: well, societal norms were a lot different, especially toward women back. . 

[00:04:47] Evelyn Leite: Yes. And women didn't have a lot of value.

If you didn't have a husband, you didn't have much value at all, or at least that's the thought I grew up with. . so my husband disappeared for weeks and I was working and I was trying to take care of two children and this man showed up where I was working and he said, I need to talk to,

And so we went into the coffee shop and he said, I want you to sign up for welfare. And to me that was the worst thing in the world. It was absolutely the worst thing anybody could ever do was sign up for welfare. and I said no. and then he said, yes. And I wanna meet you here. I want you to come to my office tomorrow. I want you to sign up for welfare. You got two children that need help and you're trying to do it all by yourself and you can't. And I don't know who turned me in, but somebody did. So I didn't go. So then the next day there's a knock on my door when I get home from work and I don't have any electricity cuz I can't pay the electric bill.

So he knocks my door, he steps in my house and we've got candlelight. And he said, either you will come to my office and you will sign up for welfare or I will remove your children. And so, The next day I showed up, but I thought it was the absolute worst thing. The shame was so enormous, and I showed up at his office and I signed up for welfare and he said, now we have a program. You can go to college if you want to, and you can sign up for this program and you can go to college. Any college in South Dakota. So I signed up for the program and I started going to school. 

[00:06:44] Angela Kennecke: So this horribly shameful thing turned out to be a gift in disguise. 

[00:06:49] Evelyn Leite: It definitely was, but you know, it was so shameful for me. my father was so against government programs 

[00:06:59] Angela Kennecke: like I said, attitudes were different back then, especially. 

[00:07:02] Evelyn Leite: Yes, they were. They were. 

[00:07:03] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. .

 (music up!) 

[00:07:04] Angela Kennecke: To try to deal with the shame and painful past experiences, Leite turned to alcohol.

 (music up! ) 

[00:07:12] Evelyn Leite: it killed the pain. And for years, I refused to acknowledge that I had an addiction because I was a binge drinker and I could go months without drinking. I could even go a whole year. But once I touched that alcohol, it was all over. So it took me quite a while to admit I had a problem. and before I even knew that I was an alcoholic, I wrote my very first book and that was what it is like to be married to an abusive alcoholic because my first husband was an alcoholic and he could be very abusive. and I was working for the Division of Alcoholism for the State of South Dakota, and people kept asking me questions and there were so many questions, and I finally decided if I write this book, that will answer a lot of their questions.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:08:08] Angela Kennecke: Leite traveled across South Dakota as part of her job to raise awareness about alcohol addiction. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:08:15] Evelyn Leite: I called Rapid City and I called the AA club and I said, I'm going to have 50 ministers at the Holiday Inn, and I wonder if I could get a panel of people to come up and explain to these ministers what it feels like to be an a. So 12 of them showed up and I sent 'em around the table and while they're talking, I am struck with the most horrible thought. They're telling my story and I got really, really nauseated and sick to my stomach. And I went to the bathroom and I threw up. Cuz I knew at without a doubt, absolutely without a doubt that I was an alcoholic.  

[00:08:59] Angela Kennecke: I think also we now know addiction is 30 to 60% hereditary, so your chances of becoming an alcoholic, plus living through your childhood trauma were pretty high. 

[00:09:10] Evelyn Leite: Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:12] Angela Kennecke: At what point did. realize and get help. 

[00:09:16] Evelyn Leite: About a year later, I finally gave in, and partially I gave in because by that time I was suffering from so much anxiety. And so then I moved to, Mankato, Minnesota and took a job as. Outpatient treatment center director, and during this time I suffered tremendously with anxiety and agoraphobia and all kinds of things. And,   finally, I, I surrendered. And that's been 42 years ago.

[00:09:53] Angela Kennecke: 42 years. Have you been in recovery the whole 42 years? 

[00:09:57] Evelyn Leite: Absolutely. .

[00:09:59] Angela Kennecke: Wow, that's, that's amazing. what kept you in recovery? 

[00:10:03] Evelyn Leite: Well, for a while it was my children. . I wasn't gonna do anything that was gonna jeopardize them anymore cuz they had already been through a lot. Then when I really got into, I used to work, for River Park and I worked for Keystone. I've worked all over South Dakota in various treatment centers and my thought was always, if I drink, all these people are gonna follow. So I had a lot of clients I really cared about and it was really important to me to stay sober for them.

[00:10:36] Angela Kennecke: So you were setting an example, you were held up as an example. I was trying for others, yes. Yeah. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:10:43] Angela Kennecke: Leite has not only led by example, but she's also searched for new ways to help her clients. She was among the pioneers of eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing therapy, also known as EMDR. It involves guiding patients through specific eye movements while processing traumatic memory. While EMDR is relatively new compared to other therapies, clinical trials show it's effective in treating mental health conditions linked to past trauma.

 (music up!) 

 can you explain to people what it. 

[00:11:18] Evelyn Leite: It's really difficult to explain because it's an experience that you really have to have, but it does take trauma and turn it into a different, See Angela, it's not what happens to you that is the problem. It's what you tell yourself about what happens to you.  a lot of the E M D R I do is with people who have had abusive childhoods, but when you're a child and you're being abused, you tell yourself, this is my fault. If I wouldn't have said that, if I wouldn't have done that, if I was better kid. I wouldn't be abused. And when you're a battered wife, you tell yourself, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Oh gosh, I guess I shouldn't have done that. I guess I should have fixed dinner right on time instead of putting it off. And so it's what you tell yourself that is traumatic, not really what happens to you. 

And so with E M D R, We take your deepest belief like I am worthless, and we work on it until your brain tells you you're worthwhile, you have purpose, you belong. 

[00:12:36] Angela Kennecke: I have had a couple of friends say that it really helped them a lot. 

[00:12:40] Evelyn Leite: Mm-hmm. . 

[00:12:41] Angela Kennecke: I have a friend who lost a child and actually then dealt with some other past traumas. Lost a child in the same way I did. I personally have never tried it, but I've thought about it. I think it could be helpful. 

[00:12:51] Evelyn Leite: It is very helpful.

 (QUICK MUSIC UP!) 

[00:12:52] Angela Kennecke: The first clinical trial for EMDR happened in 1989, just six years later, following the Oklahoma City bombing Leite received training for the therapy. 

 (QUICK MUSIC UP!) 

[00:13:05] Evelyn Leite: well, I had friends in Oklahoma City and they told me that the EMDR Association was going to come in there and they were gonna train all the counselors free on how to do emdr. . So I asked if I could be a part of this training, because my practice, I did have a practice in Sioux Falls, but I just felt like there was something missing. I wasn't giving people what they really needed.

So I went to Oklahoma City and trained with the EMDR organization, for a couple days and. When we had to do EMDR on each other. And when they did EMDR on me, all kinds of things surfaced. So much stuff surfaced that one of the counselors there who was training had to work with me for a couple hours to get me back on my feet cuz I had so many things from my childhood.

 So then I went back again, and then I came, I started doing it in Sioux Falls and my practice just mushroomed had so many people that needed this trauma work and I've been doing it ever since.

[00:14:15] Angela Kennecke: You're still doing it today? 

[00:14:16] Evelyn Leite: I'm still doing it.

[00:14:19] Angela Kennecke: I would think it would be a little bit frightening to undergo that process, to have to face the traumas that maybe you've mentally blocked. Some people may not wanna do that, 

[00:14:29] Evelyn Leite: some people may not want to and I never push anyone. Some people take a lot longer than other people. Some people are just so ready to go. . Other people take more time. But the thing to know about E M D R is you are always in control and that's made very clear upfront. You are always in control. You don't have to do anything you don't wanna do. And I've just seen incredible miracles with this therapy.

[00:15:00] Angela Kennecke: Like what do you mean by miracles? 

[00:15:03] Evelyn Leite: I've seen women who have come to me and they're, they've been battered and they're so down and out, and they believe everything is their fault. And after two or three sessions, they're different human beings. They're just totally different people. 

[00:15:19] Angela Kennecke: Can I help with grief?

[00:15:21] Evelyn Leite: Yes, it can. I've done quite a bit of grief work with the emd. .

[00:15:27] Angela Kennecke: So what do you think are the, I know we talked about emdr, but what do you think are the best tools or advice you can offer someone when it comes to addiction, abuse, generational trauma loss, all of these things kind of pile one on the other they have in your life. They have in my life. What is your best advice? You've written so many books, you have so much knowledge and have worked with so many people. 

[00:15:52] Evelyn Leite: Learn all that you can and don't be afraid to go there. you know, one of the reasons we drink is cuz we don't wanna feel or we take drugs cuz we don't wanna feel. and a lot of people, the worse you think you are, the less you wanna find out how bad you really are. I was so fortunate I had a counselor. Years ago when I was married to my battering husband, I had a counselor who was so supportive and she kept encouraging me. And even after I left him, I stayed with her and she just, she was so encouraging.

She didn't know anything about EMDR cuz they hadn't invented it then. But, we need encouragement. We need to know we're not that bad person that we think we. , 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:16:41] Angela Kennecke: According to Leite, it's crucial to remember that people with mental health or substance use disorders aren't the only ones who need support and encouragement. She suggests that family and friends of those fighting addiction should also reach out to a professional counselor for help. After all, it can be tough on everyone involved and getting some extra support can make a big difference.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:17:06] Evelyn Leite: You have to get help for yourself because you're not any good to anyone unless you know what you're doing and understanding that this is a disease and not a moral issue. . I used to get so angry at my husband because I took his behavior so personally, he'd stay out till three or four in the morning. Well, to me, that was about me and I was so mad all the time, so angry. When I found Elon, I realized his behavior's not about me. My behavior's about. And then I started to get better in terms of blaming and I blamed his friends and I blamed his mother and I blamed everybody. 

[00:17:52] Angela Kennecke: You know, we talked about generational trauma and certainly you experienced that. from your parents, and what about your own children? when they were young, they were in this very disruptive home and. you were drinking and that had to affect them. How were they doing? 

[00:18:09] Evelyn Leite: It did affect them. I have three sons and they all live close by. 

[00:18:13] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. , 

[00:18:14] Evelyn Leite: we talked pretty openly. See, in my family, nobody talked about anything. It was, don't talk, don't think, don't feel so. We talk and we talk about what we're feeling and what we're thinking, and we talk about codependency. you know, they've had issues. They've definitely had issues that they wouldn't have had if it wouldn't have been for the life they grew up in, but they're doing well.

[00:18:41] Angela Kennecke: I'm glad to hear that. Very glad to hear that. 

[00:18:44] Evelyn Leite: Because I think, and I don't get mad at them when they screw up. I don't take it personally. it's not like it's my fault anymore. . 

[00:18:50] Angela Kennecke: Right. Well, I think that a lot of parents who have a child who struggles with addiction or who's died from fentanyl poisoning Yes. Do blame themselves. 

[00:19:00] Evelyn Leite: Yes. Yes. And that's where E M D R really helps. It's blaming yourself for things that you had no control over. , we don't have control over what our kids do. I mean, from the time they're 12 years old, we're pretty much just hanging in there and hoping they learn , but, but we don't have any control. And when we blame ourselves, it is saying, it's my fault. I could've done this, I could've done that. I could've done something else. But you couldn't really, you don't really have that. 

[00:19:35] Angela Kennecke: I think that's what most parents do. I mean, I talk to a lot of parents on this podcast and it seems just to be a common thread among all parents who are in this type of situation.

[00:19:46] Evelyn Leite: I understand that

[00:19:47] Angela Kennecke: the best way to overcome those thoughts. other than if you, if you can go to emdr, great. if you want to, are there other things that you can do? Practical things. ,

[00:19:58] Evelyn Leite: you can go to Al-Anon, you can go to Codependency Anonymous. You can, just join a group of women or men or you know, a church group. Not all church groups except that kind of thing. So you gotta be a bit selective. But there are groups who will accept. the things that are going on in your life without being judgemental. So, you know, the unfortunate thing is when I was searching for counselors, I found some really bad ones. . 

[00:20:30] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, me too. Especially when it came to my daughter when we were trying to get her help, mm-hmm. I found some really bad ones. So that's a challenge for everybody. I. This type of difficulty, 

[00:20:41] Evelyn Leite: you have a right to be selective and you have a right to ask questions, and you have a right to interview anybody that you're going to tell your deepest, darkest secrets.

And if you feel a red flag or you feel not accepted, leave, find somebody else. . 

[00:20:58] Angela Kennecke: That is good advice because I think a lot of times we see the counselor as the authority figure. Right? And we don't always question . We don't always question them, even if, you know, maybe they're not giving us the best advice or helping.

[00:21:10] Evelyn Leite: No. We think they know what they're talking about. Well, they don't always. And that's really important to. 

[00:21:17] Angela Kennecke: to find somebody who's qualified and to find other people to talk to other people to connect with who know what you've been through and what you're going through, I think is so important.

[00:21:28] Evelyn Leite: And here's another thing that's really important, Angela. If you're looking for a counselor, it's really important to ask that Counselor, what do you do for yourself? Do you have a therapist? Because any counselor who doesn't have their own counselor, I wouldn't go to. 

[00:21:46] Angela Kennecke: Huh. 

[00:21:47] Evelyn Leite: do you go to a 12 step group? do you have support? Those kinds of questions are really important. Also, do you do family of origin work and family of origin Work is where most of our trauma comes. . It's where most of our bad ideas come from. It's where all of our self-esteem comes from, and there'll be counselors who will say, Nope, I believe in just working in today while run.

[00:22:18] Angela Kennecke: You have to deal with the past, before you can deal with the present, 

[00:22:21] Evelyn Leite: right? 

[00:22:21] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. , 

not everybody believes that, (MUSIC UP!) Speaking of the present, Leite is currently working on her 18th book. 

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:22:29] Evelyn Leite: I just finished it. And each one of these books, like this one Dance, like There's No Tomorrow. This book is, written about my teenage years and how confused I was and how I didn't know which way to turn and, when I took my first drink of alcohol, it. Resolved so many things for me. It killed the pain and I was happy and I had a good time. And, that book is really written about what it's like to be a teenager. And it was also has history in it because when I was a teenager, we moved to Fort Pierre where they were building the largest earth enrolled dam in the world. The Oahe Dam, it was filled. Good looking young construction workers who were running the streets day and night. 

Our house was on the river, just practically on the river. And we could see what was going on downtown. We weren't allowed to go downtown, but we could see what was going on downtown and there was, it was just crazy back in those days with the dam and all the new people moving to town.

So that's what that book is about. The other book, which is just fine, thank you, is I was taught no matter what is going on in your life, if somebody says, how are you? You say, I'm just fine. Thank you. 

[00:23:58] Angela Kennecke: Well, that's a cultural norm. I mean, we all say, people say, how are you? Fine. You know, I mean people, that's what people do. and I, I don't know if people really wanna know how we are . 

[00:24:08] Evelyn Leite: I don't. I think only your best friends really wanna know how you are. Right, right, And then this book is written for families who have an addict and they don't know how to act. they are not addicted themselves, But they have a member of their family who is, and particularly this family member goes to treatment and they get out and everybody's so uncomfortable. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to act. And so that's what that book is written for. 

[00:24:36] Angela Kennecke: So you've got book 18 at the publisher coming out soon. Are there more books than you, do you think? ? 

[00:24:42] Evelyn Leite: I don't know. It depends on if God gives me enough time to write anymore . 

[00:24:47] Angela Kennecke: Make it an even 20. How about that, Evelyn . 

[00:24:51] Evelyn Leite: I got a couple on my computer. I've not finished them yet. 

[00:24:54] Angela Kennecke: I had a feeling. I had a feeling you had more in the works. All right. Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to connect with you. I know. I think we 

[00:25:02] Evelyn Leite: really admire you, Angela. 

[00:25:04] Angela Kennecke: Oh, that's awfully kind of 

[00:25:06] Evelyn Leite: such an awesome person.

[00:25:08] Angela Kennecke: That's so kind of you to say. I think our paths kind of crossed, or we just couldn't quite connect, and I'm glad we finally had the chance. Thank you. Thank you.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:25:17] Angela Kennecke: Thanks for tuning in to Grieving Out Loud. To learn more about Evelyn Light's, books, or to catch up on previous episodes, be sure to visit our website, Emily's Hope Charity.

And if you found this podcast helpful, we'd love it if you could leave us a positive review. Your support means a lot and helps us spread our message of reducing the stigma around substance use disorder and helping people across the country get the care they. Thanks again for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

 (MUSIC UP!)