[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: In this episode, we're going to continue our conversations from the DEA conference on fentanyl that I attended. One of the people I met there was Shannon Sayers, who had no idea about fentanyl until a year ago when her life was tragically turned upside down by two devastating events.

[00:00:21] Angel Pletkas: Now we know that it's not just something that is killing musicians and is used in medical treatment, but is out on the streets killing unsuspecting people. 

[00:00:34] Angela Kennecke: Shannon's daughter thought she was taking Oxycontin. Instead, it was a deadly dose of Fentanyl.

[00:00:41] Angel Pletkas: She never wanted fentanyl in this case. But she also never believed that she would buy something from somebody and it would kill her like it did 

[00:00:52] Angela Kennecke: But that's just the beginning of this family's grief. Less than a month later, Shannon's stepson also died in an unusual death from Fentanyl. 

[00:01:03] Shannon Sayers: I think we're all coping this way. We, 

[00:01:08] Angel Pletkas: it's one day at a time. 

[00:01:09] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Yes. One day at a time. 

[00:01:11] Angela Kennecke: Hear the family's unique grief story and message to other, along with why Shannon's daughter's death led to her stepson's overdose. (MUSIC UP!) 

I'm Angela Kennecke. This is Grieving Out Loud. I started this podcast along with my charity, Emily's Hope, after my 21 year old daughter Emily died from fentanyl poisoning. I hope by raising awareness we can decrease the death toll from the opioid epidemic. Each episode, we share stories of loss, resilience, and hope in the face of the devastating impact of addiction.

Join us as we work to break the stigma, support those who are struggling and create a brighter future for our communities.

Shannon and Angel, thank you so much and welcome to the podcast. I really appreciate the fact that you're talking to me today, and I am so sorry, Shannon, for your losses losing first your daughter and then your stepson within weeks of each other this year, and you're talking to me already, which is quite amazing.

So thank you for doing that. 

[00:02:21] Shannon Sayers: Thank you. . 

[00:02:21] Angela Kennecke: What led up to these tragic deaths in your family? 

[00:02:26] Shannon Sayers: Well, my daughter came to me,

November-ish of last year and said that she had been dating this guy. , he got her some oxys and then got her, started on Fentanyl 

[00:02:43] Angela Kennecke: in November. 

[00:02:44] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:02:45] Angela Kennecke: of 2021. 21. 

 as a teenager or in her twenties, had she ever used drugs before?

[00:02:52] Shannon Sayers: No. No, no, 

[00:02:54] Angela Kennecke: no. 

[00:02:54] Shannon Sayers: Not, not that. You know, not, not that I know. But we were pretty close. She could come to me for anything. And I mean, she did this time she came to me and told me that her boyfriend got her started on fentanyl 

[00:03:09] Angela Kennecke: and, and actually taking Fentanyl. 

[00:03:11] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:03:12] Angela Kennecke: And did you know what fentanyl was? 

[00:03:13] Shannon Sayers: I didn't, no.

I didn't know. not until she said it to me. I said, well, what is Fentanyl? And, and she said, you know, pain or 

[00:03:25] Angela Kennecke: an opioid, right? 

[00:03:26] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. And I'm like, well, you got to get away from it. you're getting him out of your house. and we made that happen the next day. 

I think you were lucky that you were able to succeed in getting him out of her life. Because Emily was highly influenced. My daughter was highly influenced by a boy starting at age 16, and they didn't actually break up until three weeks before her death. 

Oh, wow. 

[00:03:51] Angela Kennecke: And by then, and I could never, ever remove her from him. He had such control over her. Right away it seemed. , (SOUND UP!) Along with Shannon, Shannon's sister Angel sat down with us for this podcast. She says that in the short four months, Phoenix dated that boyfriend. She noticed a huge change in her niece.

[00:04:16] Angel Pletkas: (SOUND UP!) and he treated her badly and, you know, I spoke with her and was like, Hey, I noticed that.

Not looking so great. And you're not happy. You're not happy and what's going on. You know, thinking that there was, maybe some more going on there than we thought. And, she knew that we were aware, but not quite ready to. admit things, but when she did, she was full on, committed to, changing her life.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:04:41] Angela Kennecke: After admitting her drug use, Phoenix began using Suboxone, a treatment for opioid addiction. The medication works by blocking the receptors in the brain that trigger cravings without activating the receptors that elicit a high.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:05:01] Shannon Sayers: it was a week's supply that they gave her and she cut it in half and then in fourths and got herself away from the fentanyl. 

[00:05:12] Angela Kennecke: So she kind of weaned herself off of Suboxone? 

[00:05:14] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:05:16] Angela Kennecke: And also opioids at the same time. 

[00:05:18] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. cuz I, I am the mom that hovers . 

I checked in on her every day, every night. she only lived three minutes away from me, so it wasn't hard to drive by and see what was going on if needed, and if she called me crying or if she called me and I didn't answer and I called back.

I still drove by her house.

. And I could just tell that she was doing good, she was getting her life back, getting her responsibilities.and that boy was out of her life. We made sure of that. she looked better. She had a more better aspect in life. she just had her personality went back to normal. 

[00:06:04] Angela Kennecke: Sure. 

Because they changed. And Angel, had you been observing all this?

Did you see all this? 

[00:06:08] Angel Pletkas: A little bit. She afterwards, um, excuse me. Darn it. I'm supposed to be here for support. So afterwards, she 

[00:06:19] Angela Kennecke: angel's here for support. But you're both early, you're both grieving and you're, you're early in this grief. I mean, these deaths just happened in May and June. So, 

[00:06:26] Angel Pletkas: yeah. So afterwards Phoenix came to me and explained to me what happened.

 and we talked about it and we talked about choices. And every day as a, who did. Every day. It's a new day to make a new choice. And she had, really kind of gone back to her old self and started enjoying friends again and, and her life again. So, we thought that she, was for the most part, you know, doing well. 

[00:06:57] Shannon Sayers: (MUSIC UP!) Despite making significant progress in her battle against substance use disorder, Phoenix's story still ended tragically.

[00:07:10] Angel Pletkas: (MUSIC UP!) she had gone to a concert and she had friends that she was hanging out with and she asked someone she knew, which was her stepbrother, to get her some oxy, and then she was found. a day and a half later in her bed. 

[00:07:33] Angela Kennecke: Was it a pill? 

[00:07:33] Angel Pletkas: Yes. 

[00:07:34] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. So they found fake oxys right by her. 

[00:07:39] Angela Kennecke: A hundred percent Fentanyl. 

[00:07:40] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:07:41] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. How many do you think she took? 

[00:07:44] Shannon Sayers: She bought 10 pills from him. 

[00:07:46] Angela Kennecke: From her stepbrother? 

[00:07:47] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:07:48] Angela Kennecke: So she had gotten these fake oxys from her stepbrother that were a hundred percent Fentanyl. She took some. , she was alone. 

[00:07:57] Angel Pletkas: Yeah, she had a friend over, um, 

[00:08:00] Shannon Sayers: for most of the night, 

[00:08:01] Angel Pletkas: most of the, so she was found on a Sunday.

She had a concert on Friday. She had a friend over that night and for most of the day, the next day. And the friend, left and said, Hey, we're gonna meet up later. And they didn't end up meeting up later. And, her roommate checked on. Late in the day, the next day thinking that she was just sleeping in and, you know, sleeping off a fun day the day before.

And, found her kind of late afternoon the next day. So we don't know kind of what happened between, her friend leaving and her roommate finding. . but we do know that she took at least one Oxy. Right. 

[00:08:46] Angela Kennecke: And it doesn't take much, to kill. 

[00:08:47] Angel Pletkas: Yeah. 

[00:08:48] Angela Kennecke: And did you know her stepbrother was? ? 

[00:08:50] Shannon Sayers: Uh, no. the puzzle pieces didn't start fitting together until after he passed away.

[00:08:55] Angela Kennecke: Right. Which is, this is just like insane. Yeah. So she dies. she got the drugs from him? 

[00:09:01] Angel Pletkas: Yes. 

[00:09:01] Angela Kennecke: He must have been racked with guilt. 

[00:09:04] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, because when her detectives told us anything, any information, we told our kids, we told him when he was about to get picked. because the detective said that they had somebody, they had video of him in her car. They had the transactions at the atm. 

[00:09:28] Angela Kennecke: So law enforcement had tracked down. He hadn't come forward and said, 

[00:09:33] Shannon Sayers: no, he didn't come forward. We, I had her. cell phone and laptop. So I had access to her accounts and I noticed that there was a ATM transaction, so I called the detectives and said, look, this is, on her account, and so maybe you could check the atm.

[00:09:52] Angela Kennecke: So they went to the gas station and got the videos and atm, transaction so Ricky, your stepson provided her with the pills, but he doesn't say that.

[00:10:03] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, 

[00:10:03] Angela Kennecke: he doesn't confess it. 

[00:10:05] Shannon Sayers: No. 

[00:10:06] Angela Kennecke: And the police figured it out. 

[00:10:07] Shannon Sayers: Yes. 

[00:10:09] Angela Kennecke: And they tell you 

[00:10:10] Shannon Sayers: They didn't tell us until the day after. 

[00:10:14] Angel Pletkas: Until after Ricky was found. 

[00:10:15] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:10:16] Angela Kennecke: So you'd had no idea?

[00:10:17] Shannon Sayers: No, they told us that they had, that they knew who they were going to. Charge who they were gonna pick up. 

[00:10:24] Angela Kennecke: But you didn't know it was your stepson?

[00:10:26] Shannon Sayers: No. 

[00:10:26] Angela Kennecke: Her stepbrother. 

[00:10:27] Shannon Sayers: Nope. 

[00:10:28] Angela Kennecke: Wow. 

[00:10:28] Angel Pletkas: Of course, Shannon told the family, y'all, they're gonna come close. They're coming close to finding the guy. 

[00:10:33] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. They have his fingerprints. They have his video. They have video of him in his, in her car transactions, text messages, telling our kids this, including Rick.

 (SOUND UP!) 

[00:10:46] Angela Kennecke: Ricky was secretly struggling with the guilt of unknowingly giving his loved one a deadly drug. His mental anguish became so strong. It led him to make a terrible decision and his life with the same batch of drugs that killed his stepsister.

 (SOUND UP!) Did he die from fentanyl? 

Fentanyl, yes, a hundred percent. 

But you think it was intentional because he. 

[00:11:16] Angel Pletkas: Obviously knew what had happened and connected the dots that Phoenix had taken something that he thought was Oxy, that was really fentanyl and had access to it and took it himself.

[00:11:27] Angela Kennecke: So at what point did you find out that it was him that had provided the pills to Phoenix? 

[00:11:34] Shannon Sayers: The next day. 

[00:11:35] Angela Kennecke: After his death? 

[00:11:36] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, 

[00:11:36] Angela Kennecke: Oh my gosh. . It's just tragedy upon tragedy.

[00:11:40] Angel Pletkas: 

[00:11:40] Angela Kennecke: Okay, so this is gonna sound weird because I know it's difficult to be angry with a dead person, but are you angry with Ricky? 

[00:11:48] Shannon Sayers: No, you're not. I mean, I'm just, I'm angry at both of them because they both could have came to me. , 

[00:11:56] Angela Kennecke: yes. 

[00:11:58] Shannon Sayers: They both knew that they could come to me and talk to me about anything, and they both have previously, you know, Phoenix came to me and told me about her boyfriend getting her on them.

Ricky's came to me on occasions, With things and they, they know that they don't have to hide stuff from me, so I just wish that somebody would've spoke up. 

[00:12:18] Angela Kennecke: I think there's so much collateral damage when one person dies. Of fentanyl poisoning. It's like the people that provided the fentanyl are guilty.

The people around them feel like they can't go on. I had a friend whose son died of fentanyl poisoning, and she later completed suicide. She couldn't live with it. Right. So I think about how it's like a ripple effect in the water. You know, this one death, Phoenix's death, and there's this ripple effect.

I mean, your whole family must be affected. 

[00:12:52] Shannon Sayers: Yes. , the question that you just asked me, I've heard it a couple times, butI don't see Ricky as a drug dealer. . I think he was just that middleman person that 

[00:13:04] Angela Kennecke: Oh, sure. He wasn't a high level operating. 

[00:13:07] Shannon Sayers: Oh, no, 

[00:13:07] Angela Kennecke: no. There's a difference.

Yeah. 

[00:13:09] Angel Pletkas: Yeah. 

[00:13:10] Angela Kennecke: had Ricky struggled with substance use? 

[00:13:12] Angel Pletkas: We don't think so. 

[00:13:13] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. 

[00:13:13] Shannon Sayers: Um, no. He was not a pill. He, no, no, he didn't. 

[00:13:18] Angela Kennecke: Mm-hmm. ? 

[00:13:19] Shannon Sayers: No. 

[00:13:19] Angel Pletkas: But he had a good friend who was a dealer. . And so I think Phoenix knew that Ricky could get access, but not that he, you know, regularly carried pills and sold them.

Sure. And then hence the guilt, you know? 

[00:13:34] Angela Kennecke: Right. What an awful story. What an awful story.

[00:13:39] Shannon Sayers: Yes. 

[00:13:40] Angela Kennecke: And I am so sorry. How is the rest of your family coping? How are you coping, angel and everyone else in your family? 

[00:13:47] Shannon Sayers: I think we're all coping this way. We, 

[00:13:50] Angel Pletkas: it's one day at a time. 

[00:13:51] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Yes. One day at a time. 

[00:13:53] Angela Kennecke: But to have two losses like that back to back.

Yeah. Especially under those circumstances, it's just, it's more than one person should really have to bear. And if it weren't for Fentanyl, 

[00:14:04] Shannon Sayers: they'd be here. They'd be here. They didn't ask for fentanyl. 

Well, yeah, 

[00:14:10] Angel Pletkas: Phoenix thought she was taking something else. and we know that. so she may have asked her that, but she didn't ask her something that would kill her, like instantly.

[00:14:19] Angela Kennecke: Right. Right. And did Ricky have any kids? 

[00:14:23] Shannon Sayers: Ricky had a, one year old daughter 

[00:14:25] Angela Kennecke: because he was 28. A one year old. 

[00:14:27] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Alana. 

[00:14:30] Angela Kennecke: Alana. See, I think also people forget about the children left behind. 

[00:14:35] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:14:36] Angela Kennecke: In these circumstances, what is getting you through your days, Shannon? 

[00:14:42] Shannon Sayers: My other grandbabies there. 

[00:14:44] Angela Kennecke: So you're focusing on who you have left?

[00:14:48] Shannon Sayers: I try to, I have to have somebody there to give me something to do, somebody to play with the grandbabies. otherwise I'll just sleeping 

[00:14:59] Angela Kennecke: depression. 

[00:14:59] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, 

[00:15:00] Angela Kennecke: depression. And that's, I think that's perfectly normal. I think it goes from, To depression, and it takes time to find acceptance. Acceptance that they're gone because that idea that they're gone and they're not coming back is so hard to take.

 time does help ease the intensity of the grief. It doesn't take away the grief, but it helps to ease the intensity. And I know that's hard for someone who's only six months out or so, to. even think it's possible that life can have any kind of joy in it again, that life can get better. I think though, if you take it one minute at a time, think about I'm okay right now in the moment and the next 10 minutes I'm only gonna focus on that.

And you try not to live in the past or live in the future. it's a cliche these days, but to live in the now I think is the only way you really survive. . 

[00:15:59] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:16:00] Angela Kennecke: And it sounds like you and Phoenix were sort of attached at the hip, so 

[00:16:04] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. , 

[00:16:04] Angela Kennecke: it's so hard to live without that soul baby. You know, that child that you were attached to in that way, and I'm, I'm so sorry.

And how is Ricky's dad doing? 

[00:16:15] Shannon Sayers: Just like me, 

[00:16:16] Angela Kennecke: just like you. You guys are both sharing this horrible grief. 

[00:16:19] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:16:21] Angela Kennecke: Is it affecting your relationship?

[00:16:23] Shannon Sayers: we've never really came out and accused, you know, like, cuz I've gotten that question, you know, 

[00:16:31] Angela Kennecke: well, just losing a child in general can affect your relationship, but the dynamics of this situation could make it especially difficult. 

[00:16:39] Shannon Sayers: From when Phoenix passed away and the detectives were talking to us, we would just lay there and be like, why? What? You know, just some questions, you know, like, how did this happen? And then, when it ended up being Ricky. , then the puzzle pieces started falling in place. You know, like, this is why he did that, or this is why this happened. but I've never put any blame on anybody. I wouldn't, he just was that person that. Had known somebody that did sell. 

[00:17:15] Angel Pletkas: we feel like. If there's somebody to blame, it's not Ricky. This was not his intent. but there are people out there that are intentionally, making fake pills and giving people fentanyl when they don't ask for fentanyl, when they don't know that they're taking fentanyl. And that's where the blame. 

[00:17:37] Angela Kennecke: Right. And so many, so many people are out there doing that. I mean, the pills are flooding this country and lace drugs and fake pills and all of it. You can't afford to take anything that you didn't get from a pharmacy. 

[00:17:52] Angel Pletkas: From a pharmacy, yes.

[00:17:53] Shannon Sayers: (MUSIC UP!) Drug dealers are mixing fentanyl, a synthetic opioid that can be a hundred times more potent than morphine and to all kinds of drugs. This is one of the main reasons why drug deaths are at record breaking levels. 

[00:18:06] Scott Silverman: And then you have to ask the question, why would someone sell a product that would kill its consumers? 

[00:18:13] Angela Kennecke: We spoke with Scott Silverman during a recent podcast. The former drug dealer now helps families in crisis navigate the road to recovery. He's also written the book, The Opioid Epidemic: What You Don't Know Will Destroy your family and your Life.

[00:18:33] Scott Silverman: And now, because the methamphetamine manufacturers don't wanna, I'm gonna put this in business terms. Don't wanna lose the market share to fentanyl. They're lacing their products with fentanyl. 

[00:18:46] Angela Kennecke: Why do the drug dealers lace everything with fentanyl? And I say, well, one of the reasons is, is that it's cheap and easy and it gets people addicted fast. If they survive. 

[00:18:55] Scott Silverman: there's a common understanding that fentanyl is a poison, and the morbidity rate continues and people are on the news about the overdose.

 The lines out the door because when it hits the news, people who haven't thought about it are now engaging in being a new consumer. And so for them, morbidity is a marketing. That you could never find a way to develop, and I'm trying to frame it in a way where people are going, wait, that makes no sense.

Well actually think about it. Yes it does. You know, the key to marketing is make something that people need and has have to replace often. I mean, that's the sales basis. One of the first, you know, commandments of sales. That's how you build a business. There are people who, you know, have billion dollar infrastructures that see, and by the way, we're the consumer, United States is the major consumer, so it's not hard to figure out where they need to bring their products.

[00:19:50] Angela Kennecke: That's why Shannon and her sister Angel want to raise awareness about the severity of the nation's drug epidemic.

[00:20:02] Angel Pletkas: I realize that it's not just, you know, a specific age bracket like this is something that affects 

[00:20:07] Angela Kennecke: age. Well, it's young people though ages, but it's young people. I mean, you start 16 to. 40. 

[00:20:13] Angel Pletkas: Yeah. 

[00:20:13] Angela Kennecke: You know, 

[00:20:14] Angel Pletkas: and those young people, and I mean God love them, but including Phoenix's friends, they think they're invincible and it's the, it's never gonna happen to me scenario.

 and, we met lots of people who love Phoenix at her funeral and in the days after her death, and, I'm not sure even seeing what happened to their friend has necessarily changed, their behaviors. And I think that is the challenge we face. I mean, people can talk about how do we get these drugs off the streets and how do we, you know, stop this market of, fake pills. also, how do we stop kids from buying them? 

[00:20:57] Angela Kennecke: You have to end the demand. 

[00:20:58] Angel Pletkas: Yes. 

[00:20:58] Angela Kennecke: The demand. And I think you're right. Kids see someone die even, and if they're addicted, they don't really care, first of all. But if they're not addicted and they just are experimenting, they just don't think it's gonna happen to them.

[00:21:09] Angel Pletkas: Yes. 

[00:21:10] Angela Kennecke: So it's usually those two things. 

[00:21:12] Angel Pletkas: And cuz that's exactly what happened to Phoenix. I mean, 

she never wanted fentanyl in this case. But she also never believed that she would buy something from somebody and it would kill her like it did 

right. 

[00:21:26] Angela Kennecke: Right. . Well, it's a heavy story and it's a lot to bear. It's a big burden for you to walk around on this planet with. Do you have any idea what you wanna do with it from here? And I know you're so early in the grieving process, so I don't expect you to have know your 

[00:21:43] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Cause I'm still wanting to be with 

[00:21:44] Angela Kennecke: her. So yes, and that will, but that will never really end.

You'll always wanna be with her, but you will start to accept the fact that you're not.

[00:21:53] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, I hope so. , um, 

[00:21:58] Angela Kennecke: I'm sure you want Phoenix to be remembered. 

[00:22:01] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. Yes. 

[00:22:03] Angela Kennecke: How would you like her to be remembered?

[00:22:05] Shannon Sayers: she loved her, her four dogs were my grandbabies, . she had four dogs and a cat before she bought her house. She talked about, well, mom, maybe I'll just move in and save some money, . And I'm like, yeah, but them yer, yappers aren't coming to my house. . And she's like, they're your grandkids. You can't talk to me. Talk to them like, 

[00:22:29] Angela Kennecke: So a, a huge love for animals. 

[00:22:31] Shannon Sayers: Yeah. 

[00:22:32] Angel Pletkas: Well, I think that Phoenix had a huge love for everybody. 

[00:22:35] Shannon Sayers: Yes, she did. 

[00:22:35] Angel Pletkas: Like she loved with all of her heart. 

[00:22:40] Shannon Sayers: Yes. 

[00:22:41] Angel Pletkas: And always, always wanted to be there to support people and let them know that she cared about them. and always, always was looking for that in return. You know, she was always looking to share love and be loved. 

[00:23:01] Angela Kennecke: it sounds like the world lost a beautiful soul. 

[00:23:03] Shannon Sayers: Yes, 

[00:23:05] Angel Pletkas: we did. 

[00:23:06] Angela Kennecke: Well, I wanna thank you for sharing this story. As hard as it is to hear, you're right, unless we talk about it more and more, and unless everyone has knowledge of how dangerous it is to take a pill, these kinds of tragedies are going to keep happening. You guys are not alone. You know that. 

[00:23:26] Shannon Sayers: Yeah, we know that 

[00:23:28] Angel Pletkas: now.

We didn't know that. Is that 

[00:23:30] Angela Kennecke: when it happened?

[00:23:31] Angel Pletkas: We didn't know what I, I had no idea. 

[00:23:34] Angela Kennecke: until it touches your life. Until, 

[00:23:36] Shannon Sayers: yes, exactly. 

[00:23:37] Angel Pletkas: my husband was going through cancer treatment and. when he was having radiation, they were like, well, we're gonna give you some painkillers, we'll give you a little bit of fentanyl.

And I was like, you mean the stuff that killed Prince? What? You know, so like, that's what I knew about Fentanyl, just, eight months ago. A year ago 

[00:23:55] Angela Kennecke: and what a horrible way to have to learn all the details about it. 

[00:23:57] Angel Pletkas: Yeah. And now we know that it's not just something that is killing musicians and is used in medical treatment, but is out on the streets killing unsuspecting people.

[00:24:11] Angela Kennecke: Right, right. Well, thank you for having the courage to share the story. 

[00:24:16] Shannon Sayers: Thank you. 

[00:24:16] Angela Kennecke: I know it will touch a lot of people and I just really appreciate meeting both of you. 

[00:24:21] Angel Pletkas: Thank you. 

[00:24:22] Shannon Sayers: Thank you.

 (MUSIC UP!) 

[00:24:23] Angela Kennecke: Next week we'll continue our coverage from the DEA Conference on Fentanyl. Hear from the parents of a 19 year old who was a talented athlete, musician, an honor student, but made the deadly mistake of buying what he thought was a Percocet from a drug dealer on Snapchat. Instead, it was Fentanyl and it killed him.

The couple is issuing a warning to all parents. If you found value in this podcast, please take a moment to leave us a positive review and share it with your friends and family. You can also find other grieving out loud podcasts along with resources for help for substance use disorder on our website, Emily's Hope dot charity.

Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

 (MUSIC UP!)