[00:00:00] Angela Kennecke: I'm Angela Kennecke, your host of Grieving Out Loud. On this podcast, we cover the worsening fentanyl, crisis addiction and child loss. In this episode, we tackle the tough subject of the death of a young child and hear from a mother who is using the loss of her toddler son to help others deal with their own grief..

[00:00:25] Brianne Edwards: In the beginning it feels like somebody drops a thousand pounds on your chest and you can't think, and you can't breathe and you can't move.

It is just so crushing and paralyzing, but it's a weight that never really goes away. It's a weight that little by little you learn to carry. 

[00:00:40] Angela Kennecke: Brianne Edwards carries her grief by helping others deal with loss. After Brianne's 10 month old son died, she formed a nonprofit and wrote a book about grief. That book has now sold more than a thousand copies. 

[00:00:55] Brianne Edwards: Eventually I came to the spot where, I decided that the love that I had for Lach was worth it even in his death. If I had to experience either none of it, not have him and not have to live through his death and the pain that came with that, or whether if I would get to have him but have to live through that grief, I would still choose having him as part of my life.

 (music bridge to start of podcast) 

[00:01:21] Angela Kennecke: Brie, I'd like to thank you for joining me today to talk about a different kind of loss, the loss of a baby. So often on this podcast, we talk about the loss of teenage children or adult children, but you lost your son Lachlan at just 10 months old. 

[00:01:39] Brianne Edwards: It's, an earth shattering kind of loss.

You know, it's interesting early in our grief, we tend to gravitate toward people who have stories that are very similar to ours and kids who have died that are of similar age to our kids. Early in my loss, I ended up attending some compassionate friends meetings for bereaved parents.

So it was parents who had lost kids of all ages. And really in that space is where my heart started to open to see kind of the common threads that we experience as bereaved parents, no matter how old our kids.

[00:02:16] Angela Kennecke: Lach died in 2008. You've had quite a bit of time to reflect on what happened and to look forward, but when you're in the midst of losing a child, it feels like there will be no more joy, no more reason to put one foot in front of the other anymore.

[00:02:33] Brianne Edwards: Right. There was so long where being lost in that darkness, I don't, you don't know what to do. You don't know where to go. You don't know. I mean, every breath is hard to take. And so to think that you could ever find a place where there's joy in life again, is unfathomable for a while.

Right. So that's very 

[00:02:53] Angela Kennecke: common theme. 

Let's talk a little bit about Lach and what happened 

[00:02:58] Brianne Edwards: with him. Yeah, so he was my second little boy happy, healthy baby boy. Dropped him off at daycare one morning and got a call that afternoon from a panicked daycare staff that luck wasn't breath. 

[00:03:13] Angela Kennecke: And he was 10 and a half months, is that right?

[00:03:15] Brianne Edwards: He was 10, yeah. He was 10 and a half months old. So just about five weeks shy from his first birthday. And he died during his morning nap at daycare. So they found him unresponsive. SIDS is something that happens , in just such a very quiet way, he was in a daycare room with lights on, other kids in the room within eyesight of childcare providers but yet was just in a position that color changes.

 They couldn't see those happening. It's a very quiet sort of death. 

[00:03:44] Angela Kennecke: Did you get any answers about how this happened, why this happened? SIDS is such a mystery 

really.

[00:03:49] Brianne Edwards: Yeah, that's one of the hard things about sids. It's a diagnosis of exclusion, meaning that when they have ruled out every other possible cause then it can be diagnosed as a SIDS death. So They take into account the whole environment that the child was found in and then full autopsy and toxicology and the whole bit.

And when there's nothing to identify what may have happened, then that's when it's labeled as a SIDS death. 

[00:04:17] Angela Kennecke: I just can't imagine how your mind goes over and over again. What could have happened? What was the setting like? Should there have been signs before?

All of these things, that we think after we lose someone. 

[00:04:30] Brianne Edwards: Yeah, even still this many years later there's still questions that come up. Could it have been something metabolic that they couldn't have diagnosed after his death? Could it have been a heart arrhythmia that you can't see post-mortem?

 All of those what ifs still stay as part of kind of the grieving afterwards. And even for my other children afterwards they know they have another brother who died and. For them to not have an answer as to why he died also leaves just this big kind of hole of uncertainty for them too.

[00:05:02] Angela Kennecke: Right. And 

you said you had two children at the time of Lach's death. Mm-hmm. , now you have six children. 

[00:05:07] Brianne Edwards: Yeah.

[00:05:08] Angela Kennecke: So you went on to have four more kids after his death. Were you a nervous wreck? How did you go through that baby stage and did you take them to daycare . Did it help you or was it a hindrance to your 

coping?

[00:05:22] Brianne Edwards: Yeah. Oh gosh. There's so much hard stuff, but it's the both and having another baby back in our lives a lso brings a lot of joy and a lot of purpose even just to the day to day. But really, so my husband and I were high school sweethearts and we had dreamed of having five kids from the time we were, 17.

But after Lach died and we'd actually had a miscarriage prior to his death. I was just petrified of the thought that if I were to bring any more children into this world that meant there was risk of them dying before I did and to put my heart on the line like that again, seemed just undoable.

 I can kind of chuckle now, but. I was scouring the internet for statistics on what percentage of children die before their parents do. And I wasn't finding answers there. So I started scouring obituaries to find whether they were either proceeded in death or survived by their parents.

 I needed to calculate my risk. 

[00:06:22] Angela Kennecke: To have some kind of control, right? I mean that the whole purpose behind that kind of behavior is trying to assert some sort of control over something none of us really have control over. 

[00:06:31] Brianne Edwards: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:06:32] Angela Kennecke: But it makes sense. I mean, it makes sense to me that you would do that. That's something I would do. , 

[00:06:37] Brianne Edwards: I, yes, I wanted, to know the odds before I was gonna make that decision. Eventually I kind of came to the spot where, I decided that the love that I had for Lach was worth it even in his death. If I had to experience either none of it, not have him and not have to live through his death and the pain that came with that, or whether if I would get to have him but have to live through that grief, I would still choose having him as part of my life.

And if I felt that way about him, then. I could feel like I would confidently feel that way about other children. So that was the tipping point for me to decide to take on the risk again. 

[00:07:20] Angela Kennecke: I totally agree with that. Understand that. Because I often thought, and I still think obviously after Emily died, I went through about seven years of real turmoil with her as a teenager when she started rebelling and started doing things and experimenting with drugs and doing things that I didn't want her to do, and I was so worried about her safety.

 I always say I went through seven years of sleepless nights, but before that I had seven years of joy and it was incredible. She was an incredible kid. Just brought so much enrichment to my life, and then ultimately to lose her. My thought always was I just 

am so glad I 

had her. I would go through all of those seven years of worry and no sleep and going outta my mind feeling like a dark cloud was following me because I couldn't help my kid.

I couldn't figure out how to get her on the right track, and even her death just to have had her in my life at all. And I think every parent who's lost a child would probably tell you that same thing. 

[00:08:21] Brianne Edwards: Yeah. And so that was a place where, okay, then let's try this again and I'll put my heart on the line knowing that even if my heart is broken again, it will be worth it.

[00:08:31] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Love is always worth the risk. Always worth the risk. Right. Love. Yeah, absolutely. 

And you have a quote in your 

book about that. I'm just gonna read it for our listeners, because I want them to get your book a thousand pounds and we'll talk a little bit about what went into that book. But you wrote, I was slowly able to come to the conclusion that love is worth the risk.

Here's the thing that tipped the scale for me. If I were given the choice, knowing what I know now, both of the love and joy that Lachlan brought to my life and of the pain and agony that came with his death, I would still choose to have him as part of my life. Yeah, that sums it up. 

[00:09:10] Brianne Edwards: Yeah. You were asking about these other kids and kind of working through Yes.

There was a ton of anxiety that came with that and in whose care they were and how they were sleeping. I ended up using some respiratory monitors for them just to give me some sort of peace of mind and knowing that I would have something else backing up.

If they stopped breathing, I would be alerted to that. Just like so hypervigilant and wanting to protect them from every little thing .

And then realizing that even when you do it all right kids still get cancer and kids still make their own decisions and kids still can die in their sleep even when you've done it All right? So, Then part of me would be like, well, it doesn't really matter what I do, and I would let go of all of that.

 Trying to find how do you parent other children knowing that they may or may not outlive you. 

[00:10:03] Angela Kennecke: Right. 

I worry about my other surviving children too, because once you lose a child, you know, it can happen to you.

It always happens to somebody else up until that point and you feel somehow you're protected or that bad thing can't happen to you. 

[00:10:18] Brianne Edwards: The place I kind of ended up settling in is just the basic level of prudence. When I am worried about something, can I say I did the best I could with the information that I had?

So that puts me in a spot where you're taking prudent safety precautions. But you're also not bubble wrapping them so much that they can't live a full life as well. Can I say I am doing the best I can with what I have in the moment. And if my answer is yes to that, then you have to find the space to be able to let go and let 'em live their joyful full lives.

[00:10:54] Angela Kennecke: In 

the last 14 years, how has your relationship with Lach changed or evolved? Do you still feel that he's with you in guiding you? 

[00:11:03] Brianne Edwards: That's some of the big work of grieving is to figure out how do you maintain a relationship with somebody who's no longer physically here, and how do you love somebody when you can't pull 'em up into your lap or pick out a birthday gift for them.

There's a lot of that grief work that is just learning to, love someone and to maintain a relationship when they're not here. 

 (MUSIC HERE) 

[00:11:26] Brianne Edwards: Maintaining that relationship is so important in the grieving process, says Dr. Mark VandeBraak the music therapist and grief educator has been a guest on the podcast a couple of times, and you can find his episodes on our website. Dr. VandeBraak has worked with hundreds of clients, including professional athletes and politicians.

[00:11:52] Dr. Mark VandeBraak: What I inevitably try to do is help people reconnect with their loved ones. Not in a supernatural way, not like voodoo or spiritual. Spiritual, but I mediums or things like that. Right. I, I look at it that if we connect with them, if we really listen to our heart, we know that there are presences there.

[00:12:13] Angela Kennecke: We agree. I feel agree with that. I hear my daughter's voice and sometimes I think I'm crazy.

[00:12:17] Dr. Mark VandeBraak: But No, you're, you're, that's great. Because you're going to hear what they're gonna say. If there's questions, unresolved differences, whatever might be going on, you still can have that conversation in. In all my years of work, I have found that we miss our loved ones physically being here, but we miss talking to them more than anything else in the world.

We miss hearing their voice. Yes. What they say, what they do. If we really, truly. We will know 

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[00:12:45] Angela Kennecke: Dr. VandeBraak uses several techniques to help those who are grieving, reconnect with their lost loved ones. That includes having people right to those who have died.

[00:12:56] Dr. Mark VandeBraak: What we miss is having that conversation. So what I want you to do is to talk to her on paper. I did that on the notes in my phone. Once , I, I would again suggest I'm just using as an example. Yeah. Hey Emily, I met this crazy doctor that wants me to talk to you. So here it goes. I want it to be random.

I don't want punctuation. I don't want capitalization. I don't even want you to think about what you're saying. I just want you to talk on paper. And how does that help? For me, what I see happening is I'll have them write, then I want them to put it away, go get a cup of coffee, something to drink, and then come back and read it to themselves.

Then I want you to rip it up cuz the paper in essence becomes a filter and you get to pick the memories you want to put around that picture in your heart. And when you get that frame, complet. , you'll have peace because you're carrying them with you. 

 (MUSIC UP!!) 

[00:13:44] Angela Kennecke: It also takes time and effort. 

[00:13:52] Brianne Edwards: Just not being afraid of our grief. Grief is, it's so big and it's so hard. It's easy to want to compartmentalize that or to put a lot of judgment around what we're feeling and how we're feeling and how long it's taking and not being able to hold ourselves together, going through normal day to day things and really letting go of all of that and.

Learning to befriend our grief puts us in a place to then be able to integrate it kind of into our lives, and then it becomes something that is softer. It's something that we don't have to be afraid of. And it's something that just incorporates as, as part of us and leaves room for all of the joyful things of life to grow in and around and through even those painful experiences. Yeah, I would agree 

[00:14:38] Angela Kennecke: with, I'd agree with that. Do you say acceptance is a big part of that? Accepting the fact? That your child is no longer physically here with you, that this thing, horrible thing truly did happen. I think it takes a while to get to acceptance. 

[00:14:51] Brianne Edwards: Yeah. I love the word integration for that.

Yeah, I like that too. I 

[00:14:55] Angela Kennecke: like that too. That's an awesome word. . 

[00:14:56] Brianne Edwards: It's melding two things and making them whole it's melding this life of being a bereaved parent where there is this such an enormous grief and sorrow. But bringing that together with all of the. Life and good things that are still here and still remain, 

[00:15:12] Angela Kennecke: right?

Trying to focus on gratitude on your other kids, on your spouse, on the sunset or the sunrise or being out in nature helps me a lot. You just have to find it right. You almost have to force yourself to look for it and not to dwell in that or stay trapped in that. Sorrow all the time.

Yeah. 

[00:15:30] Brianne Edwards: There's room for both. There can be grief in one hand and joy in the other, and it, but it does take a while to get to that place. I remember a time early in my grief where oftentimes the sun rises and the sunsets, when the sky was so colorful.

And, you know, there were so many, just like extraordinarily brilliant sunrises and sunsets in the stretch after Lach died. And I liked to think of it as a Lach and God finger painting the sky together. It was a beautiful thought and I felt his kind of presence in those moments. But at the same time, I was still mad.

He wasn't here with me. It takes a while to really be able to find that softer space. And that's okay for however long it takes. 

[00:16:12] Angela Kennecke: The other thing that you've done with your grief is you've formed a nonprofit Lach's Legacy and written this book that I just referred to a few minutes ago. Tell me about the nonprofit, why you did that, where did the idea for Lach's Legacy come from? 

[00:16:28] Brianne Edwards: So it really stemmed right from my very earliest days of grief. I didn't know how I was gonna survive this, but there's part of you that knows that I'm not the only one that's done this. There has to be something out there, some sort of resources support.

Anything. And I spent a lot of time on the phone just making phone calls, trying to figure out what was even available. It was hard to find. It didn't feel fair that a bereaved parent would have to spend so much effort looking for the resources that are available.

It seemed like they should be easier to find. And just the connection to other bereaved parents, there was something unique about talking to. Other parents who had lost kids, they just had a different way of being able to be present with me in my grief. You start to say something about what you're feeling and they give you this knowing nod, and they know exactly what you're talking about and the depths that you're talking about.

 There was just a really profound healing companionship that happened in that space. South Dakota, didn't have any kind of a SIDS organization. We lived on the east side of the state when Lachlan died, and so connected to the Iowa SIDS Foundation and really just inspired.

South Dakota needed something along those lines. The vision we set out with is to provide bereavement support to families who had an unexpected loss of a baby. We do that by sending out some care packages. We have an event called Run for Their Lives. That's a place to 

Help families to connect to each other and for people to bring their own loved ones just to surround them and do something in memory of their child. And we do some SIDS and safe sleep awareness and then get to use some of our funds to help support SIDS related research projects.

[00:18:12] Angela Kennecke: I think that's great. You're raising money to help solve this mystery of SIDS. I've been talking about SIDS as a reporter and I also had friends lose babies to SIDS when my children were little, and I feel like we've been talking about it for decades, but yet, I don't know if we're any closer to figuring it out.

You would know that better than 

[00:18:30] Brianne Edwards: me. You know, the research on something like that is so big and it's kind of thought that it's more than one process. If it was a one problem sort of process, it would be a lot easier to figure out. But there's some beautiful research that has been coming out.

Some of the research that we've participated in or helped fund is what's happening at Boston Children's. They are doing a lot of work around the serotonin. Receptors and some differences that they're finding there in SIDS babies versus kids that have died of other causes. It's all in baby steps.

But every little bit kind of contributes another piece of the puzzle. 

[00:19:06] Angela Kennecke: I love also the title of your book, A Thousand Pounds, because it does feel like you're dragging a thousand pounds when you lose a child on your back.

Right. I assume that's how you came up with the title. Yeah, 

[00:19:17] Brianne Edwards: actually so it's an interesting story where this title came from. I have a cousin who, has dreams that just sometimes mean something and she doesn't make too much of it. But I was talking to her on the phone one day and she said, oh yeah, by the way, I had a dream.

You were writing your third book. And I kind of laughed and you know, that's, I had the idea of writing a book, but it's just this grief experience is so big. How do you boil that down into a story that makes sense for somebody else to read? It was just kind of lost in the abstract. And so as you didn't happen to catch a title in an outline, did you, She chuckled in, she said, well, no, not exactly, but one of them was called a thousand pounds, and as soon as she gave me the title of this book, I think I sat down later that afternoon and outlined the whole thing. I knew exactly what it would look like as soon as I had a title to work around.

[00:20:04] Angela Kennecke: That's an amazing story because as soon as I read that, I'm like, oh yeah, that sums it up. That totally sums up grief. I also think everything that you're doing in his name and continue to do, because really you've been doing all of this since 2008.

[00:20:16] Brianne Edwards: Yeah, yeah. There is something about finding. Purpose and our pain, especially in those first few years after he died, I was thinking about him all the time. It interrupts everything that you're trying to think about.

They're just intrusive thoughts of him and of grief and. To have something to do that felt like it was making a difference for somebody else. If I could participate in easing somebody else's burden, that gave purpose to my pain and made it just a little bit easier to bear. 

[00:20:50] Angela Kennecke: Right. I always say I channel all my grief through Emily's Hope in helping others helps me more than anything else.

Yeah. 

[00:20:57] Brianne Edwards: And, for some people it's bigger things.

For some people, their purpose comes in little things, like just being more present to the people in front of them. There's a million tiny ways that we create purpose in our pain. Too. But it's a consolation. I talk a little bit in the book about just that exact thing.

 That it's a consolation. I was an athlete growing up and I always hated consolation prices. It still meant you lost . Right, right. But, and, and that's, and that's what it is here too. All of the good things that come from it. I'd give it all back in a heartbeat if I could have my little boy here.

And so it is, it's a consolation. But it still brings some comfort and some healing I 

[00:21:37] Angela Kennecke: agree with it's constellation, but it's also something that you created, you created it out of the ashes of grief. 

[00:21:44] Brianne Edwards: Yeah, that's, you know, I have a very, very faith-based kind of approach to that. For a long time I felt like God did this or God willed the death of Lachlan. And it put me at kind of a crossroads in my faith. Like, who wants a God that wills the baby's death or child's death. And eventually I came around to understanding that God didn't give me these ashes, but if I take these ashes to him, he'll help me create something beautiful from them.

And so the beauty from the ashes is just that finding some purpose, finding ways we can comfort others. Do something that serves somebody else in some way, kind of through our pain. 

 Oh, 

[00:22:23] Angela Kennecke: I agree. I agree. I just love everything you're doing with Lach's Legacy.

Thank you for writing this book for other parents, and thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. 

[00:22:34] Brianne Edwards: Thank you for having me. It's an honor to get to share my story with you. 

 (MUSIC UP! ) 

[00:22:40] Angela Kennecke: We've posted a link on how to Get Brianne's book on this podcast on our website, Emily's Hope dot charity. While you're there, you can also check out more episodes of Grieving Out Loud and find out how you can get involved in our mission to turn heartbreak into healing. Thank you for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.