[00:00:00] Brandon Novak: I believe I was genetically predisposed with my disease of addiction. And, I had a lawyer one time and he said, you know, If this is the line, you always have to take it one step further. Why? And I, I didn't know why.

[00:00:15] Angela Kennecke: I first met Brandon Novak at the 2019 DEA 360 Opioid Awareness Youth Summit in LA. The kids related to Brandon, a champion skateboarder, and really heard his message about drugs. Brandon started using heroin at age 17 and after multiple treatments and nearly dying. He is now a champion for recovery. He joined me to talk about his latest book and his efforts to get people into treatment.

[00:00:46] Brandon Novak: My work and my recovery are not one of the same. They're two completely different entities. 

[00:00:51] Angela Kennecke: I am joined by Brandon Novak. Brandon is a professional skateboarder and stunt man.

He has had a very interesting life and I got to know a little bit about his life when he and I met in May of 2019. We both spoke for the drug enforcement administration and event for 5,000 high school students in Los Angeles, and I was just blown. By the reception to Brandon's story by those kids. They were sitting on the edge of their seats.

They were listening to every word that you said, and I want our audience to have a chance to hear your story as well. So thank you so much for joining me today, Brandon. 

[00:01:29] Brandon Novak: Uh, The Pleasure's mine. Um, and wow. , 2019 seems like years ago . 

[00:01:34] Angela Kennecke: It does. It certainly does. 

[00:01:36] Brandon Novak: I don't know if that's because I'm just getting busier as time goes on or times are getting stranger as time goes on, but either way, it is what it is.

Maybe 

[00:01:46] Angela Kennecke: a little bit of both. You know when, when I wa I sat in the audience and, and we were part of a panel of many different speakers that did the DEA brought in to try to. Children on addiction and you know, what can happen to them. And I think when I watched the video of that, you showed those kids of you doing all of these crazy things and, and, and also showing some of the, I think, the depths of your addiction at the time.

I saw the response of those kids and just thought they are connecting with you in a way they don't often connect with adults. 

[00:02:20] Brandon Novak: Yeah. I mean, I try to put myself in their position in, in, in. You know, and, and take myself back to where they were at present day, you know, and, and I remember being in, uh, you know, an audience such as that.

And they would have this speaker come in and, and he would share, or she would share, you know, their cautionary tale of what could happen if you choose to drink or drug. And I remember sitting there saying, Yeah, I see that. I believe what you're. But that can't happen to me. You know, like inevitably I have a different future that I'm gonna fulfill and, and that's not part of it.

Right. And, and I remember genuinely thinking that. So, so now as fate would have it, uh, I am that man that's standing before all these, these kids, uh, who have a preconceived notion of what addiction looks like or where it will take you. And, and I had to remember how I felt sitting in the audience when.

Came and shared their story. So I simply really impressed upon the fact, uh, that the disease of addiction does not discriminate from Yale or jail, The White House or the outhouse. The results are all the same and one out of three people will be affected. It, it's an absolute fact. The numbers don't lie.

[00:03:41] Angela Kennecke: Now I feel like it's my life mission right now to end the stigma surrounding addiction, to make people understand it's not a character flaw. You know, it's not a matter of willpower or mental strength or anything like that. I feel like it's a tough road to convince this entire nation of that maybe we're getting 

[00:03:57] Brandon Novak: closer, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending upon one's perception, the stigma's lifting because the death toll's.

Oh, that's true. So I don't know if you wanna call that a good thing or a bad thing, but it is what it is, Right? Because we wouldn't have been asked to, to join forces with the dea, uh, if their way was working right. And what they've done is they've came to understand that they can't arrest their way out of the war on drugs.

You know? And, and what I like to say in, in, in, in, in the advocacy that I do and the the prevention work that I enue, There's no margin for error yet. It's impossible to do perfect, right? Because if any of us had the answer, we would not be where we're at today. So what I simply am a fan of is doing something, you know, and, and who am I to say what the right way to live is, right?

I debate it for a lot of years. Therefore, I shot heroin for a lot of years. And in this day and age of, of addiction, alcoholism, the numbers that they. , uh, I'm a fan of, of medically assisted treatment, right? I'm a, I'm a fan of Suboxone, subtext, methadone, uh, the implant, because who am I to say that's not the right way to live, right?

Like, like if I choose to partake in complete abstinence, that's what works for me. But if the man or woman next to me chooses to, to, to be on the methadone program and, and go to the clinic every morning and buy 80 mil or, or, you know, get their 80 milligram take home dose. Who am I to say that's not the right way to live.

If that provides you a life that you believe is worth opening your eyes for every morning and getting out of bed, then so be it. I'll drive you, right? And, and, and, and at the very least, if you decide one day that maybe complete abstinence is your calling, then at least you'll be alive long enough to have that.

[00:05:49] Angela Kennecke: I think it, yeah, it is a matter of life or death these days. I mean, we have to be open, just like we treat diabetes or heart disease with medications. This is a disease of the brain. I mean, oftentimes it does need medication. I, I applaud you. Five years you've been 

[00:06:02] Brandon Novak: sober. Yeah. Yeah. It's only by the grace of God.

I, I had that spiritual experience that came as a direct alt, uh, a direct result, uh, of an undeniable amount of pain. Right. The pain had become so, That for one time in my life I was willing to follow any suggestions that you give me because I came to understand that the common denominator in my problems are me.

I, Brandon Nova had created this position that I continually land in time, after time, after time. So the pain became great enough that I found purpose in it was open minded enough to be willing to follow the suggestions that you give me. I like to say I dumbed my way into it because I was always too smart for my own good and, and, and, and I possessed this job that consisting of, of, of knowing.

Right. I know, I know. And what I've realized walking into my 13th treatment center at the age of 38, fresh off of waking up on life support for seven days is, is, is, you know what? I know that I don't. And my very best thinking places me in positions like this time after time. So I dumbed my way into it, got out of my way, uh, came to the realization that I am my problem.

Maybe you can help me. And, and, and, and here we are. It snowball affected. There was no magic pill or antidote. . Yeah. 

[00:07:19] Angela Kennecke: Well, logically you shouldn't be here today. I mean, when I watched Yeah. Some of the stuff that you've done, I mean just even if it weren't from addiction, I mean some of the crazy things that you've done, the stunts and the different things, uh, those alone may have killed you, let alone the addiction.

And I know you went from being kind of on top of the world as a skateboarder who was recognized everywhere and had this huge fan base and follow. To being, they always say rock bottom. I kind of hate that term, um, because I think rock bottom is death or brain damage, but you really were at the lowest of lows and, and things, and you did things and things happened to you.

That can cause, um, someone who's suffering from substance use disorder a lot of shame and, and it makes it that much harder to climb out of. Do 

[00:08:06] Brandon Novak: you know what I mean? Yeah. It, it did, but. You know, I, I, I like to pride myself on being a real outside of the box thinker, right? I'm nobody's full. I come from better, I know better.

My mother, uh, just retired after 53 years of gainful employment as a nuclear physicist on the Board of Mercy Hospital. My brother is an attorney in the White House who practices pensions and benefits, but my father, Died, uh, with the disease of addiction, right? He never had a job a day in his life. He taught me if and when I go to prison, how to conduct myself.

You know, looking back now, uh, I, I've, I've come to grips and understanding with he did the best that he could with what he had, right? So, I, I hold no ill will towards that man. But the point I'm trying to make is I, is I, I saw right from wrong, You know, I knew that there was a decision that had to be made and.

I was never okay with, with the notion of I'm just gonna be an addict the rest of my life. I'm just gonna die with a needle on my arm. This is my calling, this is my ending. This is the curtain drop right here. My story I knew was gonna play out one of two ways and I would continue to go to meetings even while getting high.

Right? Um, and my people would be like, Why? Why? What are you wasting your time for? Because I knew that this is how it was gonna. Either I was going to die of an over. Or I was going to to get sober, right? I was never okay with that. I'm just gonna use the rest of my life. Like, I continued to try because I knew it was possible because I saw other people getting better and I wasn't okay with, with the results that I was getting from the life that I led.

Like, I wasn't okay with that and, and I knew that that one day something was gonna. I didn't know what it was, but I knew that something was, and, and I think maybe this is, you know, part of my attic mentality, but I don't do well with the answer. No. , you know, 

[00:10:04] Angela Kennecke: maybe that is, I know talking about my daughter, there's some similarities.

I thought, first of all, she wasn't a skateboarder. She was a long board, but she was a gymnast. She was a risk taker. Yes. And she never liked to take no for an answer either. Do you think there are personality traits that lend to addiction? Do you see that in your. 

[00:10:22] Brandon Novak: Absolutely. Um, and again, these are my opinions.

They're not, they're not sure fit in any books or anything, uh, any medical terminology, books, but. I have a brother and a sister. They, they are from a different man. I am the only son by my father. My father was an addict, alcoholic, his father was an addict or an alcoholic. My mother could take or leave a glass of wine, wouldn't even think of doing heroin, coke, whatever, my brother and insist same way, right?

I believe I was genetically predisposed with my disease of addiction. And, I had a lawyer one time and he said, you know, If this is the line, you always have to take it one step further. Why? And I, I didn't know why, but I It's true. You know, and I, I don't know. , 

[00:11:09] Angela Kennecke: Right? Right. We can't figure it all out.

Right. We don't have all the answers. But Emily's um, father also suffers from addiction as well. So there's that genetic maybe component. There's the personality component. But what really resonated with me, because I am a mom, you know, who lost a child in. When I watched your mom talk on that video when we were speaking together and she had, I think, purchased your plot in the cemetery.

[00:11:35] Brandon Novak: Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, that, that's the, again, the, the product of, of, of my environment at that time. Let's look at my track record to date. Um, 13 inpatient treatment centers. I had lost count of outpatients in detoxes. My mother, yes, had bought me a. people were taking life insurance policies out on me. Uh, ended up on life support, medevaced four different hospitals in four different states from four different overdoses.

She had sold three homes to financially pay for me to go to two different treatment centers. You know, at the end of my run, a 38 year old, uh, homeless heroin addict who resided on the, the street corners of Baltimore City, prostituting my body just to secure another bag of heroin. She went to church and, and, and sat in the pew.

Crying uncontrollably. And Father Mike walked past the pew and he saw my mother crying uncontrollably and he said, Miss Pat, what's wrong, Miss Pat? My mother said, Father Mike, it's Brandon. He's never been worse. There's nothing left I can do to help my son. So I've simply went to God with a prayer and Father Mike's eyes lit up like 50 cent pieces.

He actually looked like there was some hope and he said, Oh yeah, Miss Pat, what's. And Ms. Pat, my mother, said, Father Mike is very simple. The prayer consists of God, please cure him. God please kill him. Or God please kill me because I can't take it anymore. Mm-hmm. , and, and, and Father Mike looked at my mother for the first time in his life and he screamed at her.

He said, How dare you go to God like that with a plan about your son. God has a plan for your son. You don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, and Brandon doesn't know what it is. And in retrospect, looking back, thank God I didn't know what it was because I surely would've fucked it up. I would've got in the way of God's perfect plan because I possessed that job that consisted of knowing everything.

Yeah, I, 

[00:13:24] Angela Kennecke: I struggle because I prayed at the holiest place, you know, in the world, Rome at the Vatican. And I prayed that Emily fulfilled her purpose. You know, I knew things weren't going well, you know, as a mother I can so relate to your mom. Um, and it ended up the way it did. But now I feel, um, Just convicted and a mission to honor my daughter and to try to help other people to, so that her death isn't so meaningless.

Because don't you feel if you would've died at any one of those phases that you're talking about, it would've just seemed like meaningless, You know? And now you're here to create so much meaning and to help so many other people. 

[00:14:02] Brandon Novak: Well, that's the thing, you know, So after ending up in my 13th facility, uh, I had this spiritual experience that came as a direct result of the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I always say the God of my understanding brought me to AA and aav. The 12 steps have brought me back to the God of my understanding. I'm not religious, but I'm as spiritual as one could get. Me speaking personally, I, I believe that God is everything and, and I believe that I went exactly what I went through to be exactly where I'm at, to, to, to use my base, to, to, to use my platform, to, to reach the masses, to let people know.

That the disease of addiction is not a death sentence. That your history does not have to dictate your future, but it can most certainly guide and direct it. And as long as you're breathing, it's never too late. In hindsight, my defects have become my assets, you know? Um, and because here's the deal, when I put my hand up and I say, My name is Brandon and I'm an alcoholic, it's really simple what that means.

It's so simple. All that means is I'm defiant by. I hate authority and I will never conform unless it becomes my idea. Let's take a look at the demographic that I'm primarily speaking to. A whole big demographic chart of people that are defiant by nature. They hate authority, and they'll never conform unless it becomes their idea.

So now how do I make it become their idea? Well, I show them. They can read my book, right? They can, they can see my documentaries. They, they can look at me on YouTube, they can Google me. They, they, it's in the press, You name it, it's there. So my message holds depth and weight. . Therefore, these people, they're struggling.

Whatever position they're in, when they watch my, my content with my number attached, at the end of it, they're like, Wow, if that guy can do it, there's no reason why I can't. And then guess what happens? They dial my number at the end of the video. Now the terms of their contract have completely changed.

It's not me going and chasing them down saying, Your life's unmanageable. Go to rehab. It's them saying, There's a light. There's a light at this dark at the end of this dark Dr. Tunnel. If he can do it, I can do it. Now they pick the phone up, they call me. Guess what happens? It's now become their idea. And guess what happens?

They excel at a rapid pace. When it became my idea, I'm now sitting before you talking to you with over five years over. It was my idea, right? It just, it's a shell game and it has to be presented in just such a manner, and this is my opinion, but I believe your, your daughter's calling was, was part of a much bigger picture.

Right. The, the work that you're doing is saving so many and opening so many eyes, and, and I can't pretend to understand what it feels like. I, I won't, I can't, I won't do that to you. Uh, but as a child of God that I choose to call my I or power, I know that everything happens for a reason. 

[00:16:58] Angela Kennecke: You and I are connecting here, and that never would've happened. I agree with you 100%. Like all those things you said, My daughter hated authority. It had to be her idea, All of that. And, People are relating to you. They're saying, they're saying, Oh, that guy's like me except I'm better than him.

I'm not as low as he is, or whatever it might be. But then it becomes their own idea, and I think that's, that's genius that, that you work in that way because I know that has to turn, make people take a turn that maybe they never would otherwise have 

[00:17:27] Brandon Novak: taken. Basically, I'm delivering this message in a form of attraction rather than, Right.

You follow my social media. You see this life that I lead, it's a pretty rad life. I do a lot of really cool things. It entails a lot of traveling, a lot of experiences that I believe everyone should share and have and remember. And, and, and these people that are out there, they're looking at it and like, I want that.

I try to make my life as, as attractive and desirable as possible. Do you 

[00:17:57] Angela Kennecke: ever feel, uh, frustrated because I know we recently all saw the news that overdoses, overdose deaths were up, you know, considerably for 2019 and I think we're all worried about the pandemic and people being, you know, sort of shut off or cuz I, I do believe.

That one of the antidotes for addiction is connection. Absolutely. So it, it's hard to have that connection right now. I mean, are you worried about, do you ever feel frustrated, like maybe you can't help enough people or get to Sometimes I feel that way when I, when, you know, there were two more deaths in my community, overdose deaths, uh, laced with fentanyl just a couple days ago.

Um, so I, I feel kind of down sometimes, like I'm not making a big enough differe. 

[00:18:38] Brandon Novak: You know, it's, it's pretty not funny, but it's rather ironic that you bring up that point because it got me thinking while you were explaining that, that, I hate to use the word work, but we're both in the same line of work here, Right.

Of this advocacy and, and, uh, and, and harm reduction and things of that nature. Um, , but we're coming from two completely different perspectives, right? Like you're a mother that's dealing with loss to child due to addiction. And I'm the child that was addicted for many years that's now sober, right? So two completely different perspectives on the same topic, um, but they lead to the same result as well.

And the reason why I say that is because I was in early sobriety and I'm in treatment, and, and they suggest once you experience the 12 steps, you then, uh, you know, you get a sponsor. The sponsor takes you through the 12 steps. I do that and then my sponsor suggests that I get some sponsorees, right?

People that I now take through the steps, like my sponsor took me through the steps. I'm in early sobriety, I'm very, I'm walking on eggshells. Everything's gotta be perfect. I don't wanna mess up. The stakes are high. My life's on the line. And he said, You need to get some spons. And I said, I met maybe six months sober, and I said, I don't wanna, I will, and I'll follow your suggestions, but I'm scared.

I'll say the wrong thing that could potentially kill somebody. And he looked at me and he laughed and he said, Don't flatter yourself, sweetheart. You're not powerful enough to kill anybody or save anybody. That's God's job. Leave that to him. And that for me, made a lot of sense, right? Coming back to, depending on how deep you wanna go, down this hole of my spirituality, God is everything.

You know what I. 

[00:20:23] Angela Kennecke: Right. So it's really not up to us, you or I, to save people, right. We can just be maybe an instrument or a tool in that. 

[00:20:30] Brandon Novak: That's it. Yeah, that's it. I have one of my best friends who's in treatment right now, and this is a man who's, who's wildly successful, who's, who's put me in treatment many of times.

And, uh, and, and he's expressing interest in wanting to leave today and, and, uh, and they're calling me and we're trying to, to do this to help to get him to complete and. And I had to remind myself and also the clinicians at the facility that, that if he leaves, this isn't a, a loss. It's not a wash. I don't believe anything's a loss or a wash.

I believe everything, right? Because now after remaining sober long enough for me, speaking from experience, I can look back and recognize the synchronicity in life's events that have led me to the here and. Right. So many little pieces played such a big part in me getting here that at the time I did not know were taking place.

So I remember being at my first treatment center at the age of 17. Uh, I went there to prove a point why I was not like you people, nor will I ever be overreaction at best. You just caught me at a bad time, on a bad way, in a bad day. 17 years old, Uh, my mother and my girlfriend drop me off. I go in and, and they put me in this cafeteria.

And the cafeteria is completely. And outta nowhere. This older black gentleman walks in and he walks up to me. He said, White boy, what are you doing here? He said, Heroin. He said, How old are you? He said, 17. He said, Do yourself a favor and don't turn 18 in a place like this. And as quick as he came, he left.

He, no, I had no idea the significance of this conversation was ever going to have on my life. And you know what I could tell you about that older. I could tell you where the four teeth were placed in his mouth because at the time I had all mine. He's black, I'm white. He's 70 to 75. I'm 17. He smokes crack.

I successfully do heroin. Uh, he's homeless. I live with my mother and my girlfriend. God bless that man. I'm so grateful he found the answer for which he's in search. Right. This, this is what I say at the time because I'm so disconnected. Uh, I'm so comparing out, proving a point why I don't belong. I'm not you people.

Fast forward 38 years old. Uh, I, I, I come to and, and my, and my ex fiancee's home. Um, and she had completely moved everything. I come to, and I'm in this fetal position crying uncontrollably, and I come to the realization that this house is now a spitting image of what I have become. This big empty shell of a house now consoles this big empty shell of a man who's lying on the floor crying uncontrollably in a fetal position, and the only person that I can think of is that older black gentleman from my very first treatment center that told, Do yourself a favor and don't turn 18 in a place like this.

And if I just would've listened to him with an open mind and an open heart, I would not be there. So I know that was a really long explanation to the point that I'm about to bring home right now to my best friend who's in a treatment center today that's possibly thinking of leaving. Um, even if he does, it's not a loss.

It's not a wash because I promise you there was a seed planet in there that will grow and it will grow. And one day it will take. I think 

[00:23:48] Angela Kennecke: that can be the frustrating thing for families, you know, of the addicted person because they can go through treatment. So many and you feel like it's a failure, but, but what, what you're saying is it's never a failure.

Right. There could be something there. And I, I know you talk about all this in your book, Dream Seller and Addiction memoir. Um, what prompted 

[00:24:09] Brandon Novak: you to write the book? Well, I didn't , I had no desire to wanna be an author. No. In. At the point in time of me writing that book, I didn't even have a high school diploma.

Right. I was, I was, uh, I was not so kindly asked to leave. Uh, the 10th grade due to drugs and alcohol, didn't see the relevance of getting a g e d. Didn't care. But at the time, one of my best friends, a fellow by the name of Van Margie, who's a star jackass, uh, him and I used to be professional. We were skateboarders and we were best friends, but we were arch enemies.

Either he'd win contests or ride win. Every year we'd practice and we'd meet up and he'd win, or I'd win one year. I didn't show up. Um, And he says to another friend of ours that's there, Yo, where's Novak? And, and my buddy said, I think he's on heroin. And Bam is so young at this point. He's like, What's that?

He didn't even know what it was. Fast forward his career, Excels mind declines. Um, he, he becomes wildly successful, super famous, blah, blah, blah. I'm, I'm now a homeless heroin. Doing whatever it takes on the streets of Baltimore to get more heroin. And one day they had stopped into a skate shop to do a demo.

I just coincidentally stopped in the very next day in hopes to get some money and they said, We're not gonna give you any money. But Bam. Left his phone number and he wants you to call him and said, If you wanna get clean, he can, He will move you into his house in Pennsylvania. Some time passed. I called him up, I went there.

At this time he had a TV show called Viva la bam. And then Jackass was about to start. And, and, and he said, Look, you can, you can be, you can live at my house, You can be on the show, You know, you can get paid, you'll be taken care of, but you can't do heroin, no drugs, right? So that, that's fine. I'm abiding by all those rules.

And, and after we'd be finished filming, we would go out to eat. It'd be the cast in the crew at a, at a bar and, you know, it's 50, 60 people at a table. And band was always really intrigued by my stories of addiction and the places they led me to. So he was always very fascinated and he'd be like, Yo, tell this story.

And when I tell the story, you could hear a pin drop and, and at a table of 50 in a bar, and it was at that point he said, You know what? The terms of your contract have changed. You're going to write a book. You are to carry a pen, a um, a pen and paper in your hand at all times. I don't care if you're writing or not.

The first moment that I don't see you with a pen and paper in your hands, you're going back to Baltimore deals. So I didn't know how to write a book. I didn't even graduate high school. I did a little research and I found out that that books were generally written in 12 chapters. Um, so I, I did that and I, I just put it together with my last day of using it and, and it ended with me getting out of rehab and, and, and then I got a co-author.

Who ch changed my 12 chapters into 23. Bams Manager secured me a literary agent cuz I didn't have a literary agent. And that literary agent shot my manuscript around and then it sold to, to Citadel Press. And the book became wildly successful. I became a New York Times top 10 seller. Um, you know, and that, that's how that.

Concept was born and now to be a writer. Wow. That's 

[00:27:19] Angela Kennecke: a, that's a fascinating story. Well, I'm glad, I'm so glad that people are hearing your story and whichever way 

[00:27:25] Brandon Novak: they hear it, which leads me, I'm sorry, but I have to interject since we're talking about that. That book was written eight and a half years ago.

It was wildly successful. Over a hundred thousand copies printed in its ninth edition, 98% of authors don't make books past their first edition. Insanely successful. , but last month, the sequel to that book just came out. This is entitled The Streets of Baltimore. This just came out. It's the long awaited sequel to dream seller, which you're aware of.

And uh, if anyone's interested, you can go to, to Amazon or brandon novak.com and pick up a copy. 

[00:28:01] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, that's great. I can't wait to read it. I look forward to it. And also people can call you, you have a phone number out there. We'll put a, we'll put that on this podcast as well. Yes. If someone is struggling there, there's one thing I wanted to ask you about as a, as a mom, and just as I know a lot of parents listen to my podcast.

What advice do you have if you have a kid that is struggling, you know, or that is kind of heading down, maybe not as colorful of a road as you headed down, but you know, something similar? I, I think as parents, you know, nobody has any power over you, right? I mean, your mom couldn't, couldn't change your mind, couldn't fix, you couldn't.

No, uh, no counselor could do it, right? So, so what can we do if we're trying, you know, to help 

[00:28:47] Brandon Novak: somebody that we. Before I answer this question, I'm gonna allow you to, to understand that I'm completely biased to my opinion here, and the reason why is because it worked for me. But keep in mind, addiction and alcoholism is not a one size fits all black and white model.

If it were, I would've gotten it at my first treatment center at 17. I didn't get it until God willing, my treatment center number 13 at 30. So, so all I can attest to is what worked for me, and that's the advice that I can give. I'm not gonna pretend to like, because that's a very tough, uncharted territory.

You know, you can attest, right? Your daughter, what? I can't tell you what to do or not do with your daughter. That's your daughter. You love her. But what I, what I know that helped me was when my mother created boundaries, right? When she, when she meant what she said, and she said what she meant. And when I came home at 17 and, and we had a big glass door and, and, and my key one day stopped working and I banged on the door and I could see her and she came to the door and on the other end crying uncontrollably as she said, Brandon, I will no longer love you to death.

You can no longer live here. And that at the time was the worst thing of my life. But what happened is it allowed me to then have to live on the streets and uh, and all of a sudden that party and good time I used to have while getting high was no longer that party in good time, basically there started to become repercussions to my actions.

Right. I, I started to feel the life that I was leading because I couldn't just open my mom's refrigerator, um, get into my nice bed, put clean clothes on. Now, you know, like I'm a big fan of having repercussions from actions. 

[00:30:35] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. Well, I think that's such a hard thing for a parent. You know, I did all that tough love stuff, uh, but I, I learned, you know, that anger.

I never, I tried to never get angry because I learned anger didn't work, like, you know, to, So, so to try to set boundaries, but to also always approach that person with love. I'm really glad, especially toward the end of her life that. Really always tried to think, how can I speak to her out of love and not anger, you know?

Cuz it does feel hurtful when you're the loved one and you're trying to, to do all that, you're trying to save this person. Right. And, and in my case, you know, I couldn't save her. And, and that has a lot to do with the fentanyl Yeah. And the drug supply. But, um, but 

[00:31:14] Brandon Novak: yeah, something, I, I work in the field of helping people.

Right. I do it all day long for a living. Um, and the people that I cannot help, or the ones that I'm worst at, Are like my best friend, um, my family members because I'm so personally involved and connected and attached. That I'll get lost in the big picture because I'll believe what they're telling me and say, Well, maybe they are different than the hundreds of thousands of people that I help on a daily basis.

Maybe they can have a glass of wine on Thursday and be okay for, And I know that's not the case. So generally, when I have something that's so connected and I'm so close to, I have to give it to a colleague. I, I, because I'll do more harm than good. I'll become an enabler without even. 

[00:32:01] Angela Kennecke: Right. That's true. I think a lot of times we do do things we don't think we're enabling, but we can.

[00:32:04] Brandon Novak: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I wanna believe that they're different and that it's not as bad. And I do this every day, all day. It's insane. Love. A very powerful thing. 

[00:32:15] Angela Kennecke: That's true. That's true. So what's what, I know you're just coming out with this book. Mm-hmm. , Uh, excited to read it. Yeah. What's new? What else are you doing?

What's, what's 

[00:32:23] Brandon Novak: gonna, what's coming up for you? I have a fun of things. I, I'm also, this documentary that we've, uh, been working on for 13 years is coming to an end. When I, when they initially came to me with the, the concept for this project, they asked if I'd be interested. I said yes. More importantly, what I heard them say was, I would get cash on hand for every interview because they came to me during the peak of my addiction.

So I'm like, absolutely. So there's no shortage of footage. There's an abundance of real live footage present day at that time. So they followed me around. They got the highs, the highs, and the lows and lows. And at the end, right before I walked into treatment, they had a secret meeting that I was not privy to of how they were gonna end this documentary with my death because they believed that's what was gonna happen.

rightfully so, I go to treatment. I defy odds, I defy logic. I get sober, I stay sober. And this ending has kind of taken on a life of its own and it's gotten really big, really fast. Um, so it's, it's coming to an end now and, uh, I'm flying to Arkansas this weekend to speak in some prisons and film in the prisons for my document.

So I have that, I have a lot of stuff going on. I'm, I'm an interventionist, I'm a certified interventionist. I received this. I'm a c i p 163 People in the nation have it, it's like the Bentley certification cuz you can become a certified interventionist and just buy something online. Like I've spent hundreds of, hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of hours.

Uh, lots of, of, of financial means and, and time into getting this certification. And I'm really proud of that. And, you know, I. Today is, is today is, is, is the role that God is assigned to me. Seems to be. Advocacy tomorrow could be completely different. I don't know. What keeps you in recovery? Recovery? Um, I, I'm an active participant in my recovery.

My work and my recovery are not one of the same. They're two completely different entities. Um, and I know that, and I never, ever confus. . Um, so I go to meetings on a daily basis. I, I have a god of my understanding that I have a very, very good relationship. , you know, and, and my recovery isn't like this podcast.

My recovery is like, how do I live in society when I'm not talking about recovery, When I'm coming against people that have no idea who I am or what I do? Am I loving? Am I tolerant? Am I patient? You know, am I understanding? Do I show up for my 78 year old mother even when she's driving me insane? You know, do I pay my taxes?

Do I pay, You know that that's. . 

[00:34:59] Angela Kennecke: That's how you live your life. Yeah. It's not what you 

[00:35:01] Brandon Novak: do, right? It's not exactly, it's, it's no longer about a drink or a drug. It's about my, my beliefs, my actions, and my behaviors. 

[00:35:09] Angela Kennecke: There's one other question I have for you, and it's about shame. Uh, I know so many, um, people who are trying, you know, to stay in recovery or to get into recovery, really struggle with that shame, you know, their past.

They kind of carry that with them. It's, it's a really heavy burden. Um, do you deal with that at all or have you been able to overcome any Shame is the past. The past, and that's not who you, you know, whatever actions you took when you were in active addiction isn't who you are. Yeah. But I think it's hard for people to separate that.

[00:35:41] Brandon Novak: Well, it, it is, and again, it's an individualized case by case study here. How I started this, the pain was so great, the pain that brought me through my doors of treatment center number 13, was so great that I was willing to do whatever you suggested because I knew that my way no longer work, and it landed me in a lot of positions that I felt very shameful of.

Um, but what I also knew is that no one could shame me or hurt me worse than I shamed and hurt. Right. So if I started to get better and believed in the process that my mentors were showing me, it says in the literature that we no longer have to shut the past, nor do we. No, we no longer have to shut the door on the past, nor do we regret looking back at it, right?

My defects have now become my assets, right? Because I've had a shift of perception because they told me if I change my perception, I can change my, my. And they also told me that my mentality will create my reality. I, I, I don't shut the door on it, nor do I regret to look back at it. I, I act welcome it, I embrace it.

My, You accept it. You accept it. Acceptance is the answer to everything. everything good, bad or indifferent, that that's all I can do. Because the only thing I can control is me, my thinking, my attitude, my behavior through acceptance. The moment I put expectations on people, places, and things, I will absolutely 100% be let down.

And again, it talks about in my program, resentments, uh, acceptance. As soon as I put expectations on you, that's nothing but an unfulfilled resent. Right, because I guarantee you will let me down and I'm automatically gonna be resentful. And, and in our program, re uh, resentments are our number one offenders that will take us back out to drink.

And I can't afford to be resentful. So the sooner that I could come to the realization that I control me, it made life so much easier to live. I don't control you. I, I can't tell you what to think, how to feel, what to do, what to believe in. And that's, that's, I don't want that job. . That's God's job. 

[00:37:47] Angela Kennecke: Well, those are some very wise words, and I wanna end the podcast on that note because I, I just love your message there and what you said.

So thank you again for sharing your time. What a busy guy you are, and I look forward to seeing everything that you have coming out, coming 

[00:38:00] Brandon Novak: up. Thank you. 

 You can contact Brandon for help by calling 6 1 0 6 2 4 6 7 1 9. Thank you for joining me for the latest episode of Grieving Out. You can listen to more episodes and read my blogs on our website, Emily's Hope Charity. Thank you for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.