[00:00:00] Dan Schneider: This thing has been shown over hundred million times. To hundred million views at 60 countries. And now we have a potential movie because of that.

[00:00:08] Angela Kennecke: As a journalist, I was in awe of the Netflix documentary, The Pharmacist. What was so fascinating to me was the way that the central character pharmacist, Dan Schneider, was a meticulous record keeper and great investigator. He was recording audio and video long before we had smartphones in our hands, and he was doing it to catch his son's killer in a drug deal gone bad, and later shut down pill mills and the opioid crisis.

[00:00:39] Dan Schneider: I made a bargain with God I said, Look, God, if you will protect me, And if you help me get my son's killer off the street, I will go on a mission for you for the rest of my life. I will try to prevent this from happening to every other family. 

[00:00:57] Angela Kennecke: I was thrilled when Dan agreed to join me on my podcast because he had so much to say. We actually are bringing you his story in two parts because his mission hasn't ended. He is quite the character with his New Orleans accent and colorful way of storytelling. I think you'll enjoy this podcast, and if you haven't already watched the Pharmacist on Netflix, you'll wanna do it after listening

Well Dan, I wanna thank you so much for coming on my podcast. I just thought it was incredible the way the story was told. All of your, role in it, your family's role in it, how it was edited, I mean, it's just so well done. 

[00:01:37] Dan Schneider: It really, really was. You know, I had doubts as it was going through the process. I'd never went through this before. And yet, It couldn't have been done any better. It it really, they did an excellent job. And it's funny, but cuz I, I kind of, God has kind of been involved in, in this in ways, and it's really funny though because there was a story came out in the local newspaper, Nola.com "Justice for Danny," and they had written this story about me and it was really 15 years basically after I had done most of my work.

And, and it went real big and then people started talking about documentaries and movies and eventually a group called, Cinemark actually did the reel and then actually Netflix bought it , but they let Cinemark produce it under their supervision. But they did just an incredible job. Okay. They really did. And they decided to release it, right? This hurricane was on the way now, like a little, we got pieces of it. God dang it it, I said, man are they going to release this right now. And people could be so focused on a storm that, that it's not gonna have the, the impact that I wanted to have. Just the opposite. People had nothing else to do. Now, now coming to the documentary, they get, they released this documentary. What happens two weeks later? Covid. And go, Oh crap, this is gonna destroy it. It blew it apart. , it's a good story. But they, no, nobody had nothing to look at. They, all they could do is look at TV-- this thing has been shown over hundred million times. To hundred million views at 60 countries. And now we have a potential movie because of that. 

[00:03:22] Angela Kennecke: I wanna go back to, when your son was killed because your story, I mean, when you watch a documentary like this, it just, everything just seems to sort of fall into place naturally. And I think of all of the years that you have spent, first trying to catch your son's killer, trying to bring him to justice, followed by recognizing when the opioid crisis was starting and what was happening when so few people were even recognizing what was going on: years and years of your life. I bet you never, ever imagined before any of this that your life would take this kind of turn, are these kinds of turns and twists and turns? 

[00:04:05] Dan Schneider: I have a passion and a mission too, though. It gave me a purpose in life. It really did in a way, in a way it is twisted, but it made me a better person. You're absolutely right. And it, it's going up, it's gonna sound selfish. You probably would say the same thing. If I could have my boy back, I'd give this all up.

[00:04:26] Angela Kennecke: Oh yeah.

[00:04:26] Dan Schneider: I mean, I know we've done good and probably there's been more good that happened and I've saved more people than just my son and, and you have too. But we're selfish. You know, I'd give you back in the heartbeat and forget about all this stuff. Okay. Because it does take a toll on you and your family.

[00:04:42] Angela Kennecke: I agree a hundred percent of what you're saying. So what's interesting to me is that many people will go through a tragedy, like what we've experienced, the loss of a child, and they don't become activists, , you know, they don't, you don't have to do this. And what you've done is far beyond anything I've done. But I, I know what it's like to be immersed in this world, to be immersed in the way your child died. You never really get to escape from it. I maybe think some people go on with their lives and they kind of tuck, maybe tuck it away. I'm not really sure how they deal with it, but certainly that hasn't been your way to deal with it.

[00:05:16] Dan Schneider: Well, just to give you an idea, it was circumstances, you know, I I'll look like this really tremendous story. Call it a hero. Call it whatever you want. Okay. But 

[00:05:28] Angela Kennecke: you are a hero. You are a hero, 

[00:05:30] Dan Schneider: There was a necessity in a sense, you know, in actually what I did was better than, than grieving it, it was the grieving process. Okay. First off, I mean, somebody murdered my son. Okay? And what happens? Number one, I, all of a sudden I don't, boy you stupid. You don't know nothing about addiction. You must have missed something. I go through that phase and I'm starting to figure out, trying to teach myself about addiction. You know? Cause I used to have stigma about kids that had addictions 

[00:06:02] Angela Kennecke: Yes, 100 percent. 

[00:06:04] Dan Schneider: And I'm embarrassed to say to couple of weeks before my son died. This kid was killed in the Ninth Ward, just like my son. And guess what I said? I said, I might have sympathy. Okay. But I said, Well, you know, what do you expect? Not, not you deserve it. I don't think I was quite to the point of you deserved it. And yet there was, part of me would've never dreamed my kid would've did this.

[00:06:28] Angela Kennecke: I think most of us, I mean, you're educated, you're a pharmacist you gave your kid the world. I could see that through the documentary. I did the same thing. And I think somehow we think that that protects us from these kinds of things happening to our kids. Like if we're just good enough parents, if we just know enough, if we just, But that is truly not the case. 

[00:06:49] Dan Schneider: So immediately I, I'm starting to rethink addiction. I'm saying, Wait a second. I know this kid was a good kid. I know he was bright. I mean, I know he experimented a little bit. This picture I got of it being a moral failing or something, you know, a shortcoming all of a sudden when it's your kid, and particularly, I mean, there are some kids that have a lot of issues. My son didn't. Okay. Then I go to the police thinking that when we gonna find a murder, because, you know, my son's a drug user, okay? And, and that's different than a killer. Okay? They couldn't see the difference.

[00:07:24] Angela Kennecke: He's stigmatized cuz of the way he died. Just like if they take something with fentanyl, they're poisoned by fentanyl. They call it overdose. I call it fentanyl poisoning. But you're stigmatized by the way that you die, I think.

[00:07:35] Dan Schneider: Right. 

[00:07:36] Angela Kennecke: And I also think that police were incredibly corrupt at that time in New Orleans, in the late nineties.

[00:07:41] Dan Schneider: There was some corruption. , at times I thought that was even involved in my case. It was more of a case of old burnout, guys that, that were overwork. 

[00:07:50] Angela Kennecke: Nobody cared. Nobody cared?

[00:07:51] Dan Schneider: They really didn't care, another drug deal going bad. And actually I don't wanna cast my son as some angel and these other kids as bad kids. But a lot of these kids had long, long records they had stolen from their parents. And I have sympathy for all that. I got passion for that. But you know, it was not unexpected when they got killed. They never ever really looked to see that my kid was any different than any of the other ones. My kid had no record, had never had a rehab, no knowledge of drugs. Okay. Other than maybe some pot. They treated him, Let me tell you what they did. At first we talk about, I started recording, okay? And it seemed like, why was this guy recording? Was he planning 

[00:08:33] Angela Kennecke: As an investigative reporter, I just wanna thank you. If I was the documentarian and you handed me all of these tape recordings, from that time, I would be falling down at your feet thanking you. Because what a way to tell this story. . You recorded everything that you did, before there were cell phones, .

[00:08:48] Dan Schneider: I agree. You don't even understand some of the things that I had to do to record people too. I bought a car it finally had a intercom system with the telephone and back in the year 2000 it was one of very first calls that had this thing, because lots of times I would have to record because some of these police, you can't record them. Cause they have systems where you can't record em. They know you're recording. I would have to go in my car with a handheld recorder and, and it would come through the call system

[00:09:17] Angela Kennecke: What prompted you to start recording in the first place? How did that idea come to you?

[00:09:21] Dan Schneider: I had to respond to situations and was the only way to go. The, the first thing I did is I talked to the police about my son and whatnot, you know, and I tried to give him a picture that he was a little bit different and then, and I knew there was gonna be a little stigma and they might not wanna work hard. And I tried to say, this was a different kid. He was a good kid. And then I told him, I said, Maybe, you know, I said, Let me give you a couple tips. I'll give you some of his friends names. Cause they might know something, what went on and I, and where he worked at. Ok. Well, they go down to where my son worked part-time. He was in college, but he worked at a Pizza Hut. They go down there and after they go down there, and I basically sent them down there. Okay. Thinking maybe somebody through his pizza deliveries, made these connections with these drugs or something. Ok. And they asked the manager of the Pizza Hut one question, how much was Danny stealing? They didn't ask any other questions. . And she told him, she said, Danny, He was my best employee. He was never short a penny. I get on the phone with them, what did they say? What, he was stealing from you, it was like a gut punch. And I started saying to myself, Well, you know, never really thought about that. Maybe he was. And we had owned apartments okay? And we, you know, on a slide we would keep a little side on the cash. So you know, somebody pay us cash, we put it on side, We wouldn't put it in the bank. Okay? But we always had two, three, $4,000 in the house and the kids had access to it. All they had to do was write a reason. So when the police told me that, Much as I thought my kid was a good kid. I said, You know, maybe they probably know something. I dunno, I went there almost sick and pulled out our box with the cash, expecting to find it short. Wasn't short. A penny. Now I am really getting angry with these cops. You're supposed to be looking for killing, not trying to determine if my son's a criminal. I would talk to them about some things and try to contribute. And I would suggest, Well, why don't you try doing this? And they probably didn't wanna do what I said, but they would gimme lip service and say, Okay, we'll do that. And then about a week later I would call him. And I say, By the way, how did that thing work out? What thing that said thing I asked you to do? You didn't ask us to do that. So now I say, Damn bastards ain't gonna beat me. So it was out, a necessity was not, It was only to make sure I wasn't crazy .

[00:11:44] Angela Kennecke: Many people would've given up at that point. Many people would've really just felt like they had no power. and they couldn't do anything about 

[00:11:51] Dan Schneider: It became a competition then. It wasn't only find my son's killer, it was beat the cops.

[00:11:57] Angela Kennecke: And you, went through a phone book, found a witness. I mean, things that probably couldn't have happened as easily today, but you did find the killer. 

[00:12:07] Dan Schneider: Yes, Yes. But remember there's some strange twist in the story, It's an incredible story. while I was involved in, I didn't start recording thinking it was a movie or I was preparing for a movie, but I started realizing I was living a movie. And there was a point in time where it became necessity just to check my own sanity to make sure I knew what I had told them. Okay? But then it became an investigatory too. Nobody could relate to what I was doing. Everybody was telling me I was gonna get killed. You shouldn't be doing this. My wife struggled with this. She knew I was doing the right thing, but her friends would say, He's gonna get killed. You're gonna lose your son and your husband. So there was always this little bit of struggle, and I would go in my son's room at night, in that recorder, I'd recorded cops with all, I record myself. I would pray. Some of that's shown in there. I would pray and I would beg God and the recorder became my friend. It was just basic necessity surviving and, and, and fighting through this. But you're right, something drove me and I'll tell you what also drove me, obviously, just like any other parent, I get mad at God , and I start saying, Well, you know, I wasn't a good enough person. I must have sinned this must be some kind of punishment. But rather quickly, when all this stuff started happening I didn't know where to turn. So I actually turned to God and I made a bargain with God I said, Look, God, if you will protect me, And if you help me get my son's killer off the street, and if you protect any witnesses I have, so there ain't no innocence get hurt. I will go on a mission for you for the rest of my life. I will try to prevent this from happening to every other family. So that also drove me. 

[00:13:53] Angela Kennecke: Dan says a conversation with his son shortly before he died also drove him to keep searching for answers. 

[00:14:01] Dan Schneider: The week before he died. I had did see a couple signs and we had done something. We had him drug tested at one time and whatnot and the past drug test and everything else. I saw a few signs just a week or two before he died, and I thought it was drugs. I even went to him and I said, Son, are you doing drugs? And I'm still, I'm naive. I think he's doing marijuana and he's doing a little too much of it. And he says, No, dad. And I said, Well, I said, You know, I can have you drug test. And he says, Go ahead. Well, Oh, now I know he was lying, I think. Although he had beaten drug tests before. Okay. For pot, which was all he was doing earlier when he was younger. But he did say something to me and it was a gift and it also hurt, but now I realize it was a gift. He said, But dad, I'm depressed. I said, Something's going on, son. Something's going on here. You've gotta deal straight with me. Okay. He says, Dad, I'm depressed. So I immediately go, Well, son, you're not suicidal, are you? No, dad, I got great parents. I got a great girlfriend. I got a great life. I just don't know what I wanna be. And I'm having trouble focusing and, , I'm frustrated and, I'm having trouble sleeping. And I like a good daddy and a pharmacist say Look, son, a couple days or I'm gonna get you an antidepressant, I'm gonna get you a sleep aid. In the meantime, drink a beer and maybe take a Benadryl. It helps you go to sleep. But I also talked to him about his future Cause he wanted to be an architect. He was good at literature in reading and writing. And he was pretty good at actually drawing. Okay. But he wasn't really good at math and all the other things you need to, to be an architect. So I said son look, take depression off yourself. Become a draftsman. There's nothing wrong with being a draftsman. They make pretty good money. It's a trade focus on that. And I said, If you can go beyond that, and I said, Make a to-do list. Make a to-do list to keep yourself organized. He said, Fine, Dad. Well, just a couple days later he comes to me and he says, Dad, you know what? I really, really like that talk we had the other day. He says, And, and I'm gonna do what you said. Remember, I don't know. He's doing drugs, buying crack, I'm dealing with something that I think is the real problem. . But he says something else , and this is motivated me, he said, I'm gonna go focus on architecture. , But you know, I love to write and it's gonna be a part of my life. I'm gonna write. And you know, I don't know if I could ever make a living on it. One other thing I like to do, discourage kids from doing drugs.

[00:16:37] Angela Kennecke: Wow. 

[00:16:38] Dan Schneider: Wow. Now let just tell you, and me and him had debates on this. He was all for legalizing marijuana. He, he was kind of inclined toward drugs. 

[00:16:46] Angela Kennecke: My daughter too. Same.

[00:16:48] Dan Schneider: Well, you know what I said, This kid finally gets it. It totally mislead me. It totally disarmed me. 

[00:16:56] Angela Kennecke: But that is what has become of his life. 

[00:17:00] Dan Schneider: Now I realize he was trapped. He couldn't tell me. 

[00:17:05] Angela Kennecke: He was too ashamed. 

[00:17:06] Dan Schneider: He was too ashamed. It was too much stigma. He thought he could get out of it himself. Okay. But he wanted to tell me. Dad, I get it. So now I have to spread that message. I gotta spread it for Danny. Tell you something else that I found out. After he dies. Okay. We gotta have a funeral. Cause I'm doing all these other things, trying to investigate addiction. But I'm also trying to find what the hell happened with him. When did this start? So, at the funeral, some of his friends said, Mr. Danny, can we carry Danny's Coffin? They wanna be pallbearers, but I told the kids, Look, I've got family members. I don't know, but, but I did pick one kid to carry the coffin. This was a kid that years earlier came to me and said, Look, Mr. Danny, I hate to rat on Danny.. He has smoked pot. But it looks like he's developing a habit. I'm a little worried about. And that keyed us up and we worked on that issue. Whether we resolved it. I thought we did, any event, I looked at that kid as a hero, so I'll let him carry the coffin now I didn't know what the other kids involvement was. So after the funeral, a day or two later, again, part of my desire to see if I could figure out how to solve the case, I wanted to question them. Maybe they knew who he was dealing with, Maybe they knew something was going on. Well, sure enough, I get a lot of graveside confessions, you know, these kids had slept over the house and boy Scouts with him. I mean, you know, all American stuff. Basically good kids. And one of them at this meeting, after they telling me Danny's history, when they think he started, how he started; a couple of things come out. One, kid says, Mr. Danny, why didn't you let us carry his coffin? And I said, Because you guys carried his coffin his before he died. Tough. And I, I have since apologized to them and befriended them, and a lot of them are helping me with my mission now. But at the time I was angry because they knew what he was doing. 

[00:18:59] Angela Kennecke: Right.

[00:18:59] Dan Schneider: But guess what? Danny had asked him to help him. He did not wanna do this. He admitted to them he didn't wanna do this, that he had cravings. So they made a pact, a couple em made a pact. Danny was supposed to call them. I found this all out later. Danny was supposed to call them when Danny left the house that night, the fatal night, okay. Still living with us, still would check in with us and whatnot. , Good news is we, we said we love you. Be careful. All those things, but it's good that you hear him say, I got good parents a week before he dies it. It's good that we say, We love you. These are gifts.

[00:19:40] Angela Kennecke: My last words between my daughter and I where I love you. Our last texts were, I love you. And I always say that is an incredible gift that I have going forward.

[00:19:50] Dan Schneider: Right. Well, anyway now back to these kids. Ricky, one of his friends, Called five minutes after Danny left the house. We would later find out Danny called both friends and left messages for them to get back with him. He was trying not to go out that night.

[00:20:06] Angela Kennecke: Oh. But they missed him cuz we didn't have cell phones ;so his friends were trying.

[00:20:10] Dan Schneider: If you watch the show, there's a lot of crazy things. And look, not everything can be put in that show. There's a lot of back stories. The police did do something. But the reason why they did something was the girl that eventually would, that I would find that became the witness. She called Crime Stoppers like a day after. But when they took this,Crime Stopper Tip in, the kid comes in now he doesn't look like a killer. He's 15 years old. And there are other suspects out there that look worse than him. So the kid come, gets called in and they say, All right, somebody's named you as the killer. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't kill him. Okay. But I, I saw exactly what happened. Now, later when I talked to the cold case, cops and other police, Police 1 0 1 is you don't just accept what he says. He's been named. And they pretty much accept it because if they get lucky, the case is solved. If he leads him to a killer and they got a witness, you need a witness and you need a killer in that area. It's almost impossible to get both. So in their minds, this is a quick way to resolve this case. So I believe the kid is a witness. 

[00:21:16] Angela Kennecke: What happened next is unbelievable. Dan strikes up a friendship with the 15 year old boy who a witness named as the killer, but the boy claims he's not. But saw Danny's murder take place.

[00:21:30] Dan Schneider: Me and my wife go visit his grandmother on a Sunday, and he rides up on his bike. I read a poem to him. I'm gonna read this poem to you. This poem is a big part of the story. My son wrote this poem when he was in high school. I read this to the kid, of course, the kid's 15. And now I know it probably didn't have an impact, but I was trying to convince the kid to help me actually get the real killer, not him, the one he named and to get the police to believe him. After my son's death, his girlfriend found all his writings and I started reading his writings and he had written a very poignant poem about the death penalty. He was strongly against the death penalty. So I wanna tell a kid, Look, help me find his real killer. And I said my son wrote this poem, Read this to you, son. I'm reading it to his killer.

[00:22:20] Angela Kennecke: . Dan reads his son Danny's poem titled, It's Like a Mystery Story. 

[00:22:28] Dan Schneider: Life burns. As Stephen King writes down his words of glory critics rave the body of a killer will be placed in his long waited grave. The parents of his victims are charged the high price of admission to watch his pain, but their satisfaction is guaranteed. So everyone claims a flip of the switch in a dark of the night, a cry, a distance, a life taken for spite. The day turns black, the light is gone, new killers are born. A director now awaits approval to promote a black buster hit. But in life, this story just doesn't fit or does it?

[00:23:05] Angela Kennecke: That's like a premonition of everything that has happened since his death. 

[00:23:11] Dan Schneider: Amen. Number one, it's crazy. He even talks about a movie. So now I'll read this to the kid. You know what the kid says? Yeah. Danny took a wrong turn. I said, You know what Danny did? Danny should not have been up there. Later on, I would actually found out that he took a real physical, wrong turn up there. But I pointed out to him, Jeffrey, this is about a killer, taking a wrong turn. I'm explaining to the killer the difference between a killer and a kid making a wrong turn to buy a drug. I know. It's bizarre

[00:23:38] Angela Kennecke: I was also shocked in the documentary that Jeffrey agreed to be in the documentary. 

[00:23:42] Dan Schneider: And how they managed to get everybody. We had everything. We had the witness. We had the killer we had the doctor.

[00:23:46] Angela Kennecke: And how do you feel about Jeffrey today? 

[00:23:49] Dan Schneider: I'm gonna lead into that. This is still part of the story. Initially I thought to myself, If I could find a killer, I wanna kill you regardless of what my son had talked about. But on the other hand, I'm praying to God and I start telling God, Well look, God, if we catch him, I don't want the death penalty. And my son's poem is in the background. So me and my wife commit that if we solve this thing. And even if there is a death penalty case, we gonna ask that. No. We wanted him punished, taken off the street, but we wasn't gonna kill him. Now remember Jeffrey the killer is also helping me solve the murder. He's helping me find the gun. Me and him become friends. He called me Mr. Danny. 

[00:24:30] Angela Kennecke: I always say though, that the truth is stranger than fiction. It really is. 

[00:24:34] Dan Schneider: Well, it is. So any event, finally I found this witness and she tells me, Jeffrey's the killer. But I wasn't quite sure. Okay. He didn't look like a killer. So I'm doing all these dangerous things and one of my neighbors comes over to me and says, Danny, look, you know, you keep going up there, you're gonna get killed. And I said, Yeah, well, I'm sorry, but I just, I gotta do what I gotta do. And he says, Well, look, let me just tell you something about me. We live in an upper middle class neighborhood. Okay? I had no idea This guy's background, he only lives three houses away, but I barely knew him. I'm cutting grass. One, one day while the investigation's all still going on, he says, I'll tell you what I'll do. He says, I'll go up there with you. Hey, in my earlier years I had a serious crack problem. Way more than with your son. I shot at people, I had beat up people, people shot at me. I lived up there for a while and dealt crack. He says, I will go with you. You can interview people and I'll be there. And if somebody comes after I got a gun, I wouldn't carry a gun. So we go a couple times and he's getting a little aggravated. He says, Tell you what, and this is another weird story; very hard to believe, okay? But it's real. He says, I know a retired drug dealer and what I mean by a retired drug dealer is he used to be the king pin in that area, okay? But he's still in the know I'm gonna bring you to him and he might help find out whether Jeffrey is the killer or this the other party is the killer. He's pretty scientific about it. He says, I want you to write down their names. Okay? Tell me a little bit about the situation and he says, Okay, Mr. Schneider I think I can get you an answer. After I know who it is. Do you want me to have him killed? Yeah. Yeah. It definitely was across my mind because at the time now my witness might get killed. She doesn't wanna come forward cuz she's being threatened. Everybody, the DA, the police are all telling me, you'll never, ever get any justice outta this thing. Even if it goes to court, you'll never win. And so, in a sense, I could have said, Well, you know, I'm getting the killer off the street who might kill somebody. This is the only way I can get justice. So God, maybe you gimme a pass on this. What stopped me? My son, his poem. He was 100% against his. I had asked him, If your mother or your daughter, your sister get killed, how would you feel? No death penalty daddy. that is what he said, and that is what he wrote. One thing I solved the case, I'm obligated now to back this up with God. God has sort of fulfilled his part of the bargain. But anyway, after 10 years, we'd go visit Jeffrey in jail.

[00:27:07] Angela Kennecke: What made you go visit him in jail? 

[00:27:10] Dan Schneider: A desire to, make peace to try to forgive him. 

[00:27:14] Angela Kennecke: So I have a question about the forgiveness part because in my daughter's case, it was a boyfriend that let her into this world, met her at a very young age. nothing has ever really happened to this guy. And I struggle with forgiveness. But for this one person now, who knows, You know, if that's really the case. Were you able to forgive him? 

[00:27:35] Dan Schneider: For one thing, my wife says no. I say yes, and I think I have. I don't know whether I'm kidding myself. but I definitely make an effort on it and I don't have the rage at him that I once had. So it's about as close to forgiveness as I think I, I can call it. But anyway, we sit down with Jeffrey or also I wanna get a few more details though then I got 99 pieces of the puzzle. Okay. But I don't have a hundred pieces of the puzzle and I still wanna know exactly what happened. Well, Jeffrey's kind of a scatterbrain. He's still trying to cover his ass a little bit. He does admit guilt. He apologizes. Okay. But actually, even before that, you know what he says? He says, Mr. Danny I want to thank you for saving my life. All of Jeffrey's friends and I knew all of his friends because they were all runners for these drug dealers in that particular neighborhood. Okay. They were all dead. They died on the street. Jeffrey had, he remained on the street, he was more likely to die on the street than me putting him to jail. My son would've had wanted this kid to have another chance. I said, Jeffrey, it wasn't me that saved your life. It was Danny. 

[00:28:42] Angela Kennecke: There's truth in that. 

[00:28:44] Dan Schneider: And I said, Do you remember that poem I read you?

[00:28:47] Angela Kennecke: Did he? 

[00:28:47] Dan Schneider: No. I said, Jeffrey, when I was investigating, I ran into a man who said I could have you killed for 500 bucks. Everything would've been much easier. What stopped me from doing it was my son's poem. I wanted to kill you. 

[00:29:03] Angela Kennecke: Makes my heart kinda hurt a little bit, you know, to hear you tell it in the way that you tell it. I, I know we're talking about a poem, but the whole story is poetic. 

[00:29:11] Dan Schneider: It's poetic. It is, it's divine it's premonitions. It's being either the wrong place at the wrong time, or the right place at the wrong time, or it is really God driven. Okay. , I don't have all the answers to that. I pretty much choose to think that God has been along with me, but nothing came easy. I talked to God when I prayed. I said God, I know you're on my side. I know you, you, you've helping me accomplish this. Okay. But why make it so hard? Everything in this story is so ridiculously connected. The day of the sentencing, now we only get 15 years. And at the time, I didn't wanna deal. I wanted to go trial but that even worked out ironically, in the right direction. We were ready to go to trial. And I went home and I prayed on it. But this is what I did. In spite of me having all these things that my son encouraged me to do and all this kind of stuff, the only way I justified going in the next day and taking that plea deal was I said, You know what? I'm gonna take the plea deal and when he gets out, I'm gonna kill him. But I don't think I'd ever killed him, and I didn't mean that. And I would've thought about my son's wishes and all this other kind of crap. But that night for me to walk in that courtroom, I had to have a reason to justify what I was allowing to happen. Now we leave, we go home. I'm already start thinking, Boy, I gotta do this mission. So I was gonna go to schools and talk and teach parents the warning signs and try to prevent tragedies that way. We first said, we're gonna take a break for a couple of months. I'm gonna do nothing. No investigating and no advocacy work. The family needs a break from all this crap. Only one thing I get home in my recording machine , is beeping back then if you had a message 

[00:31:05] Angela Kennecke: On answering machine, 

[00:31:06] Dan Schneider: So I press the button. And it's my son's creative writing teacher. The teacher that helped him with this poem, and he says, Mr. Snyder, I have no idea what's going on in the case. I just get home from the kid being sentenced and led away in cuffs. I go home and it's beeping and he says, In two weeks we have red ribbon week. We'd like you to come speak at the school. And I say, maybe I'll take a couple months off. Maybe I won't do this. I'm revved up. I'm pumped up. Okay. There was a purpose for this phone call to come in when I came home from the hearing. God don't want you to take a pause. 

[00:31:52] Angela Kennecke: No breaks, no breaks. 

[00:31:54] Dan Schneider: Yeah, no, no break. Okay. So I go two weeks later and then I go to college and I go to schools. Meanwhile, you got kids coming in look like my son.

[00:32:05] Angela Kennecke: To your pharmacy. The kids are coming in, just so for people that don't know 

[00:32:08] Dan Schneider: I was seeing 18 year olds and 22 year olds; kids with no ailments. And I'm looking at this and every other pharmacist seen that, but the doctor was legitimate. People had said Oxycontin wasn't that addictive. Well, I knew that was bullshit.

[00:32:21] Angela Kennecke: You knew it.

[00:32:22] Dan Schneider: .I just recently studied addiction. . 

[00:32:24] Angela Kennecke: Cause the pharmaceutical companies were saying it was not addictive. That was their sell. 

[00:32:29] Dan Schneider: some doctors were buying that crap. And they'll be honest with you. Prior to my son, this happening with my son, I might bought it, or at least the other way for awhile I'm keyed up for what I can do to save a life. What's going on that I'm missing; ,that everybody's missing. I call the DEA and the FBI and I call a medical board and I get like nowhere. They're not paying much attention to me. They seemed to not like somebody from outside. They don't even understand why I'm calling them and warning them this. 

[00:32:56] Angela Kennecke: What strikes me is when you make this deal with God, that you know, if you can find your son's killer He'll help you with that. That you will serve Him by saving other people, making sure that other people don't go through. Cause I think that's exactly how I felt after my daughter died. I just wanted to make sure this didn't happen to anybody else. 

[00:33:18] Dan Schneider: They didn't die in vain 

God has something to do with this. You can call it serendipity. You can call it coincidence. And I'm sad to say this again. I would've probably been like most pharmacists, and I would've probably looked the other way when I started seeing that that's what 99% of the pharmacists did back then, and there's, there's some guilt shared there. Had I not lost my son and been through the trauma and been so committed to try to prevent these tragedies, had that not happened, I would not have gotten involved in putting doctors out of business. And I would not have had the investigatory tools either. So everything was trained for, for me to be a part of this. I told my wife one time, she said, Look, you've already done enough. You shouldn't do this. It's gonna be another risk. I said, Who else is gonna do it? 

[00:34:05] Angela Kennecke: Dan says. It took a series of unexpected events and an outright miracle for him to take his next step with his wife's support. 

[00:34:14] Dan Schneider: This is a crazy story. But anyway, the Saints, New Orleans Saints football team back then is kind of a joke. They were pretty horrible. But guess what happens the year that my son's case gets solved, they win a game. This is the first ever game won. Now that I've solved this case, it's almost like, hey, God's even gonna let the saints win the Super Bowl this year. now, so I tell a wife, I said, Look, we supposed to take a break. I went and talked at a couple of schools. I'm thinking about this doctor. I gave, I gave them some information. I dunno where that's gonna go. Let's take a trip to Minnesota, was the game number two? We drive all the way up there, and, and I just know the Saints are gonna win this game because God is on my side, I'm on a roll. God has structured this for me to be here. Other things have been falling in place. But they get their ass kicked. I mean, I couldn't believe it. You know, like I was crushed. Okay. But lemme tell you what, we made a vacation on it. In fact, we went the Mall of Americas, okay. And remember everything I did with the police was audio. I didn't really know how to use video. And actually, I think my video camera was old . So we end enter all of Americas, and I see this new fangled camera that's small, and I buy this and my wife says that's an impulsive buy. This was a $1,500 camera, 20 some odd years ago.

[00:35:35] Angela Kennecke: I remember those. I had one of those little cameras about that time too. 

[00:35:38] Dan Schneider: I justify buying it. Okay. Because we're on vacation. I wanna take some pictures of the Saints game. I wanna take some pictures of the snow, the river, and I do all that and we got a good video. Now we, on our way home, we bring a friend with us. And she's riding in, in the front seat with me. And in the back seat, my wife and my daughter are sleeping. And I'm telling Debbie is her name. I'm saying, Debbie, I don't know what to do about this doc. Okay. You know, I called the medical board I don't really want to get involved in this. And she says, Schneider, you're gonna do this. You're gonna put her out of business. And I said, Debbie, I said, Look, I said, That's easy for you to say. Number one. . My deal with God was, to go talk to kids and parents and all these other things, okay? And Annie doesn't want me doing this, my wife. And she says, I'm sorry you're gonna do this. And I said, Well, you know what? If I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna have to get a different sign from God, immediately outta the front windshield of the car a cross appears. Now you're probably gonna be a little bit skeptical you buying my story, but you're probably gonna say, Well, it was there.

[00:36:52] Angela Kennecke: Sure. I'm skeptical by nature. So yes. 

[00:36:54] Dan Schneider: So was I. I, In fact, so much so that I thought I was hallucinating I tell Debbie, I said, Debbie, what do you see? She's kind of a clarivoyant type of person, kind of a strange person. She believes in these kind of things. I don't really, Okay. I'll see a cross Schneider just like it's normal. So I say to myself, I said, You know what? I just asked for this, and now we see this cross. My wife's sleeping. There's no way she's gonna believe this. So I told Debbie let's wake him up. The cross continues to appear. Wake my daughter up and my wife up, and we said, Look, Look out of the front windshield of the car. Do you see anything? I see a cross. I see a cross. I don't know how you explain that other than a miracle. 

[00:37:52] Angela Kennecke: Sure. Well, there's lots of ways to explain things away, but what is the harm? 

[00:37:56] Dan Schneider: Remember I asked for this and I had three witnesses? How often does that happen?

[00:38:02] Angela Kennecke: It's pretty hard to argue with. So then you went right after the doctor. Right after that, right? The pill mill doctor. 

[00:38:07] Dan Schneider: It's even better than this. We go home that night, we don't get home. We drive all night. . It's two o'clock in the morning. Well, all my patients have been telling me that this doctor's open at two o'clock in the morning. There's hundreds of people out there. 

[00:38:22] Angela Kennecke: Whoa. 

[00:38:23] Dan Schneider: So I don't believe them. , but they gotta be exaggerated. I gotta see. So I tell a wife, I got this new camera. 

[00:38:32] Angela Kennecke: Oh, there is where the camera comes in. 

[00:38:35] Dan Schneider: I did not buy that camera when I bought it, thinking I was gonna do that but I had never done any videoing like this before. But the story gets even better. So now it's two o'clock in the morning, she says I'm going with ya ,why? She saw the cross. 

[00:38:55] Angela Kennecke: So she came around 

[00:38:56] Dan Schneider: She's saying we are on a mission. Now there would be times on this mission where she started having doubts and wondered whether we should be doing all this crap. Okay. But at that moment, she wanted to go with me. She at times is, helping me video, sometimes she's shooting the footage. One at two o'clock in the morning, there are hundreds of people out there and she's open.

[00:39:17] Angela Kennecke: Insane. That's insane. But you were able to shut her down. You were able to put her out of business, but that wasn't enough yet. Then you went after the pharmaceutical company. 

[00:39:27] Dan Schneider: Yes. That, and I think that's slightly overplayed. I did go after them. Tried to 

[00:39:32] Angela Kennecke: It's the David Goliath story, right? , 

[00:39:34] Dan Schneider: It was way too big. I'll scratch the surface the only reason why we even give me some credit there was, is because I did write senators and I had copies of the letters. I made a phone call to Purdue giving them some ideas on how they could reduce the problem. And all that was documented because I was at this stage now, documenting almost everything I did, and somewhere along the line I was starting to think this might be a story I wanna write a book about. I said, You know, these doctors. People are doctor shopping. They're bad doctors, but they're bad pharmacists out there too because, you know, maybe they can justify fill in a prescription from, for a patient that's been in their store. But we had a little network in my community. There was no pharmacy monitoring program at the time. But some of the better pharmacists, sometime we call and say, Look, this patient just came in. Did you also fill a similar prescription sometime when we catch people that were actually doctor shop? Well, my intuitive investigative mind now, unlike a lot of people, started looking for solutions to this thing. And I found that in about three states at the time, they were experimenting with a pharmacy monitoring program, which would tell the pharmacists in each area that they were getting them filled someplace else. And I said, we ought try to do this. , so then I went to war with trying to get that done. I contact my pharmacy board. And I said, Look, they got this pharmacy monitor program. I think it'd really be a big help. We could cut down an overdoses of people, doctor, shopping well I got that. We're looking into this, but not at the time so then I happened to have a friend that, I went to pharmacy school with, and he is a newly elected board member on the pharmacy board. His name's Richard. So I called Richard up and I said, Richard, look, I said, What can I do to try to impress upon the board? He says, Well, number one. This is off the record, They don't want it. 

[00:41:27] Angela Kennecke: Why didn't they want it? As a reporter, I have a vague memory of covering the story when South Dakota, implemented the prescription monitoring, in our state, But I don't remember any battle behind it. Why didn't they want it?

[00:41:42] Dan Schneider: Strange. Richard actually helps me, says, tell you why. Danny says, What I would suggest that you do is try to build a case, for this with some documents, okay? Send 'em a certified letter, and ask for a response. They have to respond to you in writing. That puts them on record because I only got a verbal wording that they're not interested in this. Well I go one better. I'm getting tough now. Okay. There are doctors now that are getting sued by parents who lose kids. There are even some pharmacies being sued because the pharmacist is filling these things routinely. So I'll put together a package and I, I said, you know what technology is available to prevent this from happening. There's going to be a parent that loses a kid that is sue a board and you better get ready immediately. They go to work on a pharmacy monitoring program. 

[00:42:40] Angela Kennecke: So it was just the threat of being sued is what it took 

[00:42:43] Dan Schneider: Exactly. Somebody had to speak up in an intelligent way and give them the fear of God in them. Okay. To do this, I helped other states get pharmacy monitoring programs. And so, you know, I started writing articles. I, I still would go talk in schools. I gave up investigating and I did shut down two other doctors. They, they were a lesser note than that doctor. And my wife finally reined me in and said, Look, what is this gonna end? And so I stopped investigating and I started doing what I originally intended do is talk in this kids.

[00:43:18] Angela Kennecke: Advocacy work. 

[00:43:19] Dan Schneider: Typical advocacy, not investigative work.

[00:43:21] Angela Kennecke: Coming up in part two of my conversation with the pharmacist, Dan Schneider, We talk about his latest mission to get medically assisted treatment for opioid addiction more widely available and the activism he's doing right now to make it happen. You can listen to more episodes of Grieving out Loud and read my blogs on our website, Emily's Hope dot charity.

Thanks for listening. Until next time, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.